Post by: BackToBasics on December 20, 2010, 01:49:20 AM
Thus, do we really need high performance balls, especially since there is really no new technology (last year's new tech is this year's low end)? With so many mid-range balls with strong covers and excellent cores, why do we need to spend $160 for a Taboo when a surface tweak and layout can get you similar performance for $80 out of a Midnight Vibe? If you want to see how much performance you can get out of a Freeze, Vibe, Tropical Heat, Anaconda, etc, drill up one and then hit it to the same factory surface as one of the HP balls and see if that performance difference is worth the price. I think people will be surprised at how much a Vibe can hook with 360/500/1000.
Post by: robuster on December 20, 2010, 10:35:42 AM
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Live free or die trying.
Post by: MrPerfect on December 20, 2010, 11:04:51 AM
In the end it does all come down to achieving a particular grit. In particular, look at the actual differences from a simple abralon pad sanding job, and the results of a cover created through a chemical process.
I think more what you are seeing is that with the prevelance of better materials the difference between the quality of the low price point balls and high price point balls is much smaller than it used to be.
Further, it also depends on what pattern you are bowling on. If you are bowling on a house shot, with the right surface almost any ball will work, but balls are made for the competitive bowler.
Post by: Dan Belcher on December 20, 2010, 11:52:38 AM
Post by: Good Times Good Times on December 20, 2010, 11:53:28 AM
quote:
In my area, using anything more than a mid-level ball will cause scores to drop. The move off friction that some of these hi performance balls make is beyond stupid. The ball is still hooking when it hits the pins and carry sucks.
I guess if you need help getting the ball to turn over, get the hi performance ball but if you have a good release(s) and don''t mind tweaking surfaces, you dont need anything more than a $120 ball.
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Righty
Speed: 17.5 (MAP Session)
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Axis: 5-3/4" 5/16 down
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Edited on 12/20/2010 1:42 PM
+1. Especially for a THS.
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GetOffMe10Pin
Post by: Steven on December 20, 2010, 12:09:15 PM
quote:
I guess if you need help getting the ball to turn over, get the hi performance ball but if you have a good release(s) and don't mind tweaking surfaces, you dont need anything more than a $120 ball
I don't need 'help' turning the ball over, I've averaged in the 225-235 range for several years, and I would never limit myself to lower technology $120 equipment. The core/cover combinations on higher end equipment provide for much more versatility and more line options. Why give that up??
Most decent bowlers can get to the THS pocket with almost any equipment. But it's all about carry, and higher end equipment makes a difference.
Post by: Yanker on December 20, 2010, 12:15:17 PM
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Chucky or Jason for Head Coach of the Cowboys 2011?
Post by: BackToBasics on December 20, 2010, 12:43:14 PM
quote:
If you ever bowl on anything tougher than a house shot (where the tons of friction available on the outside part of the lane mask differences in bowling balls), yes there's a world of difference in coverstock technology. I compared a Dimension and a Tropical Heat at the same surface (500 straight up to 2000 abralon, done by the same person in the pro shop I frequent), with somewhat similar layouts on a fresh USBC Open pattern and saw an EIGHT board difference in total hook. That's huge. This drastically altered my ability to play angles that gave me more mistake room and better carry with the Dimension. And bear in mind I'm a low rev stroker, so I see even less difference in equipment than someone who revs it up.
Just to be clear, I am talking about ALL conditions, not just THS. "Tournament" shots can and often have a significant amount of friction as well and the ones that don't can also break down extremely fast.
Was this the hybrid since I believe that is the strongest of the Tropicals? But how much difference would a 2Furious, DiamondBack Or Revolver have been and if only a board or two, would it really have made that much difference in scoring?
Post by: Dan Belcher on December 20, 2010, 12:48:59 PM
quote:The orange and purple pearl version.
Was this the hybrid since I believe that is the strongest of the Tropicals? But how much difference would a 2Furious, DiamondBack Or Revolver have been and if only a board or two, would it really have made that much difference in scoring?
Even if there's only a one or two board difference in total hook, the actual reaction shape can be vastly different, and therefore change your carry and mistake room. On a 35 foot sport shot in a tournament recently, I made only a two board move when switching between a sanded pin down Mars and a very very lightly polished pin up Gravity Shift. However, the Gravity Shift gave me four boards of area at the breakpoint to still hit pocket and carry most of the time, compared to about 1.5 boards of area with the Mars. And even when I hit the pocket with the Mars, I was still threatening to leave a shaker 7 or flat 10 because the ball simply couldn't create the same entry angle as something with a coverstock that responds more violently to dry boards.
Also, on dry lanes, I've actually hooked urethane just as much as my reactive stuff, but again, gigantic difference in how it responds to the oil, to the friction, and what kind of reaction shape it creates, and therefore how much mistake room it gives me and how well it carries.
There's a reason I carry low end AND high end stuff in my bag, and use both on different conditions.
Post by: DON DRAPER on December 20, 2010, 01:22:42 PM
Post by: BackToBasics on December 20, 2010, 01:29:30 PM
quote:quote:The orange and purple pearl version.
Was this the hybrid since I believe that is the strongest of the Tropicals? But how much difference would a 2Furious, DiamondBack Or Revolver have been and if only a board or two, would it really have made that much difference in scoring?
Even if there's only a one or two board difference in total hook, the actual reaction shape can be vastly different, and therefore change your carry and mistake room. On a 35 foot sport shot in a tournament recently, I made only a two board move when switching between a sanded pin down Mars and a very very lightly polished pin up Gravity Shift. However, the Gravity Shift gave me four boards of area at the breakpoint to still hit pocket and carry most of the time, compared to about 1.5 boards of area with the Mars. And even when I hit the pocket with the Mars, I was still threatening to leave a shaker 7 or flat 10 because the ball simply couldn't create the same entry angle as something with a coverstock that responds more violently to dry boards.
Also, on dry lanes, I've actually hooked urethane just as much as my reactive stuff, but again, gigantic difference in how it responds to the oil, to the friction, and what kind of reaction shape it creates, and therefore how much mistake room it gives me and how well it carries.
There's a reason I carry low end AND high end stuff in my bag, and use both on different conditions.
I think you are somewhat blurring the point by comparing balls with VASTLY different characteristics. A high flaring, low RG assymetrical to a low flaring symmetrical is not a fair comparison. That difference alone is enough to make a difference.
My point is I bet you could have had similar or the same amount of room with say a 2Furious or Nomad Pearl (using same company for example). But the mid-range ball has to have similar characteristics.
I mean at what point do we complicate bowling so much where .001 differences in flare potential and RG values are considered new and high performing?
Post by: Dan Belcher on December 20, 2010, 01:43:16 PM
quote:I tried a Reign that didn't work at all, and a more highly polished 2nd Dimension that worked very well only after 5 or 6 games where the fronts had been blown up.
My point is I bet you could have had similar or the same amount of room with say a 2Furious or Nomad Pearl (using same company for example). But the mid-range ball has to have similar characteristics.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not overstating how important the differences in balls is, but I DO think you are vastly understating the differences. If the pros that aren't on staff with some manufacturer find it worth their while to throw two similar balls with slightly different layouts because one carries better than the other in certain situations because it's coverstock is ever so slightly more responsive to dry than the other one, isn't that enough to tell you that yes, it makes a difference? It might be a small difference in one or two strikes a game, but one or two strikes a game is the difference between cashing in a tournament and finishing way out of the money. I cashed in that tournament a couple months ago, but missed the cut to match play by 13 pins. The difference? Two blower 7-10 splits when I tried adjusting hand positions, moving my feet, and adjusting speed far too long before just switching balls to something that fit the condition better on that particular pair of lanes I just moved to.
Post by: dizzyfugu on December 21, 2010, 12:42:24 AM
Maybe it is just personal experience, but I quit on high end stuff and am amazed how good so-called low-end stuff or antiquities work.
General lack of oil is one reason (the most aggersiive ball I used in league this season is my Ultra Radical Pearl, most of the time I get along with my black Pure Hammer!), but also the more predictable reaction of the less aggressive materials for my game. I have the feeling that I could get along with a Power Groove...
I also subscribe to the statement that you rather need some hand position/release adjustment knowledge than ever new balls. But, as mentioned above, as long as the myth of "new ball = high score" persists, the industry won't change.
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Post by: kidlost2000 on December 21, 2010, 01:40:46 AM
Even with surface changes the Jigsaw was more work then needed to get the ball to the 1-3 pocket.
Many of the tournaments I have bowled recently have gone to much drier conditions taking many of the super aggressive balls out of play for most bowlers. Many of the lower average bowlers with only one or two HP bowling balls can't make the adjustments to even get close.
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Be good, or be good at it.
Post by: bhman79 on December 21, 2010, 06:09:49 AM
Post by: HamPster on December 21, 2010, 06:42:00 AM
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That's just like, your opinion, man.
Post by: trash heap on December 21, 2010, 07:04:35 AM
quote:
I use high performance balls for the increased amount of drilling options, fine tuning ability, increased consistency and control, and the ability to make it through a complete set easier.
Sometimes that High price tag (High performance) doesn't equate to your statement here. There have been plenty of Mid Performance lines over the years that have out performed their higher priced brother.
I am sure a list could be generated very quickly here of high end equipment that was advertised to be the best(control, hook, versatility)...only ending up being a DUD!
Post by: BackToBasics on December 21, 2010, 07:25:39 AM
quote:
High performance really pertains to the demand for it. The average league bowler really doesnt need it, just like most regular cars only need regular gas. I use high performance balls for the increased amount of drilling options, fine tuning ability, increased consistency and control, and the ability to make it through a complete set easier.
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That's just like, your opinion, man.
I am sorry, but HP doesn't equate to consistency and control or ability to stay with it longer. Oftentimes it's the opposite because of the aggressiveness of the cover, it breaks down the shot way too quickly and forces zone moves too early.
Control and consistency is a function of release, pin placement and surface. Furthermore, strong asymmetricals can lead to inconsistency because of small variations in releases. It is hard to beat a solid symmetrical for this reason.
Post by: jbruno6 on December 21, 2010, 07:51:57 AM
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A half ten is not a great shot. No, you shouldn't have carried it.
Post by: batbowler on December 21, 2010, 08:11:38 AM
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Post by: HamPster on December 21, 2010, 09:42:09 AM
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That's just like, your opinion, man.
Post by: jls on December 21, 2010, 09:47:34 AM
Do you feel that a $10 per dz. ball is as good as a $45 per dz. ball...
Do you feel that a $49 driver is as good as a $299 driver...
I can't REMEMBER THE LAST TIME I SAW SOMEOME WINNING BOO KOO BUCKS IN POTS WITH AN ENTRY LEVEL BALL...not even on the desert....
So IMO....To answer your question
NO, you get what you pay for...
now
MERRY CHRISTMAS
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jls
Post by: Steven on December 21, 2010, 10:10:54 AM
quote:
I can't REMEMBER THE LAST TIME I SAW SOMEOME WINNING BOO KOO BUCKS IN POTS WITH AN ENTRY LEVEL BALL...not even on the desert....
So IMO....To answer your question
NO, you get what you pay for...
jls: You have a unique way of cutting to the chase nailing the correct answer.....
Why this subject keeps coming up is perplexing.
Post by: BackToBasics on December 21, 2010, 10:13:40 AM
quote:
DO YOU PLAY GOLF...
Do you feel that a $10 per dz. ball is as good as a $45 per dz. ball...
Do you feel that a $49 driver is as good as a $299 driver...
I can't REMEMBER THE LAST TIME I SAW SOMEOME WINNING BOO KOO BUCKS IN POTS WITH AN ENTRY LEVEL BALL...not even on the desert....
So IMO....To answer your question
NO, you get what you pay for...
now
MERRY CHRISTMAS
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jls
As a matter of fact I do and I am knowledgeable about golf equipment. Your examples are flawed. COR has been maxed out for several years so drivers that are being closed out for $99 or even less from a few years ago are AS LONG as the new Titleist 910 model that's retailing for $399. My Bridgestone J33 is going on 4 years old and there is nothing than can touch it in pure distance. There are drivers that are more forgiving on off center hits but that hasn't equaled any performance increase for me. The Ping G10 driver is being sold now for $179 in most places and I guarantee the new $300 G15 is not better (assuming the G10 already matched you). That's why the current gimmick in golf is adjustability because they can't claim distance increase anymore. The shaft lengths can't get too much longer than 46" and be usable.
Titleist ProV1 balls are a perfect example of balls that are way overpriced. There are plenty of balls that are priced cheaper that equal or perform better. Srixon ZStar is one of them and you can readily find them on sale for $25-$30 a dozen. Often you can buy last year's model significantly cheaper and not suffer any performance decrease.
$60 shafts that perform the same as $300 shafts because the zone profiles match. Plenty of examples in golf so that was the wrong game to choose as a comparison LOL.
And I reiterate, I never said entry level ball. A Vibe and Anaconda are not entry level balls. However, I frequently see pots and tournaments won weekly with Tropical Heat Hybrids, Vibes, Nomads, 2Fasts etc. Heck, I've won my fair share of them as well.
Post by: Robadat on December 21, 2010, 10:27:15 AM
quote:You should have been at my league last night.
I can't REMEMBER THE LAST TIME I SAW SOMEOME WINNING BOO KOO BUCKS IN POTS WITH AN ENTRY LEVEL BALL...not even on the desert....
First and third game pots were won by a guy throwing a Power Groove in the first, and a Storm Natural in the third.
I won the second game pot using my MAXIM. Threw a 243 game.
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Sarcasm Disclaimer:
"This post may contain sarcasm, things that look like sarcasm, and things that might be mistaken as sarcasm. My sarcasm is self-made at my environmentally friendly laboratory and no human or animal was harmed to create the sarcasm found within this post."
Unless, you were harmed. In the extremely rare case were that to happen, Tough Nouggies!!!
Disclaimer provided by Jorge, Thanks.
Post by: jls on December 21, 2010, 11:23:09 AM
quote:quote:You should have been at my league last night.
I can''t REMEMBER THE LAST TIME I SAW SOMEOME WINNING BOO KOO BUCKS IN POTS WITH AN ENTRY LEVEL BALL...not even on the desert....
First and third game pots were won by a guy throwing a Power Groove in the first, and a Storm Natural in the third.
I won the second game pot using my MAXIM. Threw a 243 game.
--------------------
Sarcasm Disclaimer:
"This post may contain sarcasm, things that look like sarcasm, and things that might be mistaken as sarcasm. My sarcasm is self-made at my environmentally friendly laboratory and no human or animal was harmed to create the sarcasm found within this post."
Unless, you were harmed. In the extremely rare case were that to happen, Tough Nouggies!!!
Disclaimer provided by Jorge, Thanks.
Rob, I said "not even on the desert" the balls you described are dry alley wonders...Where anything hooks...
On the flood they are wash out queens...
Backtobasic''s... I said a $49 driver, did not mean a $119-or $99 closeout...
There are boo koo models on the market that sell in the $49-$79 range... Brand new...The models you mentioned with your "FLAWED" comment were all top high end balls that HAVE NOW BEEN REDUCED...
That is not the same thing as a MODEL that sells for $49-$79 BRAND NEW...
Now as for the golf balls... What do you consider performance... a ball that you can hit far... Well I don''t... I consider a ball that can bore thru the wind and land soft on the greens...
A ball with a true roll off the putter...Not one that jumps off a putter face...
Now you would be right if you said the cost of a Titleist is way too high compared to other balls...
But a $45 Titleist is superior in performance to a $14 bonus pack special...
IMO, they should be selling for about $34...
now
MERRY CHRISTMAS
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jls
Edited on 12/21/2010 1:23 PM
Post by: Robadat on December 21, 2010, 11:40:36 AM
quote:No, you said "not even on the desert" which would include desert like conditions.
Rob, I said "not on the desert" the balls you described are dry alley wonders...Where anything hooks...
And the lanes were not a "desert". By no means a flood, they had a decent amount of oil in the fronts on old wood, but the backends were absolutely "flying".
--------------------
Sarcasm Disclaimer:
"This post may contain sarcasm, things that look like sarcasm, and things that might be mistaken as sarcasm. My sarcasm is self-made at my environmentally friendly laboratory and no human or animal was harmed to create the sarcasm found within this post."
Unless, you were harmed. In the extremely rare case were that to happen, Tough Nouggies!!!
Disclaimer provided by Jorge, Thanks.
Post by: jls on December 21, 2010, 12:00:52 PM
quote:quote:You should have been at my league last night.
I can't REMEMBER THE LAST TIME I SAW SOMEOME WINNING BOO KOO BUCKS IN POTS WITH AN ENTRY LEVEL BALL...not even on the desert....
First and third game pots were won by a guy throwing a Power Groove in the first, and a Storm Natural in the third.
I won the second game pot using my MAXIM. Threw a 243 game.
--------------------
Sarcasm Disclaimer:
"This post may contain sarcasm, things that look like sarcasm, and things that might be mistaken as sarcasm. My sarcasm is self-made at my environmentally friendly laboratory and no human or animal was harmed to create the sarcasm found within this post."
Unless, you were harmed. In the extremely rare case were that to happen, Tough Nouggies!!!
Disclaimer provided by Jorge, Thanks.
Rob, when it comes to "oil", if you ask 10 different people, you will get 100 different answers...
NOW sir, IMO, If someone is using an entry level low flare ball or a plastic ball, to me they are not on "oil" They are on a light pattern at best...
Now sure there are cases where someone can score using a plastic ball, even in oil... I still remember the night some "dude" using a house ball shot 279 against us, in the big boys league... But this is not the norm, especially on oil or tight back ends...
Anything is possible...
Why even your Giants are able to blow a 21 point lead with 7 minutes to go...
Did I menetion, they suck in the 2nd half of the season, year after year...
And BTW, Chicago is a "No Fly Zone", therefore your little QB from the Jets will be going down this week....
bet the house on the Bears...
trust me
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jls
Post by: kidlost2000 on December 21, 2010, 07:26:47 PM
quote:
I can''t REMEMBER THE LAST TIME I SAW SOMEOME WINNING BOO KOO BUCKS IN POTS WITH AN ENTRY LEVEL BALL...not even on the desert....
May depend on what you mean by entry level. Most would agree you don''t need an arsenal of HP equipment to compete. Most lower level bowling balls have great cores and aggressive covers to deal with the majority of lane conditions. I have yet to talk with anyone in some time that has said, WOW those lanes were flooded. Tournament, house shot, ect.
Take for example the 505 series. You don''t think you can compete with anyone, in almost any condition with those three bowling balls? Maybe just two. 505A and T. Plenty of core and cover for any good bowler to put up numbers.
Same for many other companies and there less then HP equipment.
I''ve avoided the HP stuff and increased my scores because I''m not fighting to make the ball work. Or only getting a game and a half in before moving several boards or making ball changes to stay in the same general area.
For the vast majority of bowlers the HP stuff is very rarely needed. It also isn''t needed to be competitive.
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Be good, or be good at it.
Edited on 12/21/2010 9:29 PM
Post by: Doug Sterner on December 21, 2010, 08:32:39 PM
The ball companies have made their mid-priced pieces so good that the high end is just a waste of cash for most bowlers. Want examples?
The Hammer Jacked will handle as much oil as most high end balls on the market.
The Storm Fast has every bit as much backend as Storms Virtual Energy or Reign.
The Total Bedlam hooked as much as the Pure Physics...hence the reason it was discontinued.
The Storm Furious was about as versatile of a ball as has been made in recent history. Any guesses why they changed the core and called it the 2 Fast?
Mid-priced balls pack a huge punch now....
Diamondback, Brawl, 2Furious, Reign of Fire, Burst, Nomad solid, Burn, 2Fast, Reign, Nomad Pearl, OutBurst.....all very solid performers without spending $190.
--------------------
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Owego, NY
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www.dougsproshop.net
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Post by: Brickguy221 on December 21, 2010, 09:17:51 PM
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"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away."
Brick
Post by: JustRico on December 21, 2010, 09:18:27 PM
Golf balls are one thing...bowling balls are another.
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Formerly BrunsRico
Post by: TheFreeAgent on December 21, 2010, 09:20:17 PM
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REFS: MrEddie(BBE), notsohotshot(BR), akanayte(UTA), Tywithay(BBE), BKloss(BR), therealdeal24(BR)
Formerly RotoStorm2008
Post by: JessN16 on December 21, 2010, 10:31:35 PM
I do find it interesting, for my game at least, that I tend to do my best bowling even on PBA, USBC Blue and high-end Kegel patterns with stuff that is not new, not super-aggressive and not hard to find. My best look on USBC Blue has been with an old Lane #1 Gold Nugget, my best look on PBA Viper with a Lane #1 Tsunami H20 and my best look on the USBC Open pattern was with a da*ned Storm La Nina.
I suspect, in all three cases, it has to do with the fact that I like to go as straight as possible through the front part of the lane, and if you're a big boomer you're looking for something different than I am.
As others have said, though, if you get on a high-volume pattern (PBA Shark) or if you're a speed-dominant league player on THS, the newer stuff isn't just nice to have, it's a necessity.
Jess
Post by: dizzyfugu on December 22, 2010, 02:39:00 AM
quote:
I've avoided the HP stuff and increased my scores because I''m not fighting to make the ball work. Or only getting a game and a half in before moving several boards or making ball changes to stay in the same general area.
For the vast majority of bowlers the HP stuff is very rarely needed. It also isn''t needed to be competitive.
Absolutely agree!
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Post by: gsback on December 22, 2010, 03:02:14 AM
First, the customer is correct....and yes this does pertain to the topic!! I've talked to pro shops and most will agree that if a customer wants a high performance ball, they will gladly sell one. I have no respect for a pro shop that sells one to a customer that's not looking for one though....no.
Second, the average bowler is not on this site. If he/she were, the amount of users would surely be in the hundreds of thousands....not in the 30,000s which is where it's at nowadays.
The demand for HP balls is there regardless of whether we need them or not. And I believe that for the bulk of the bowlers, a HP ball is a good thing because it gives the average bowler that basic ability to hook the ball, and possibly to get them hooked into bowling because of that.
Now, for the rest of the 10-15% of the bowlers....maybe a little more, it can easily be debated over whether or not HP balls are needed......but you don't bite the hand that feeds you....and people want them.
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Post by: Dan Belcher on December 22, 2010, 05:08:40 AM
Post by: scotts33 on December 22, 2010, 05:36:45 AM
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Scott
Post by: Steven on December 22, 2010, 08:04:58 AM
quote:
My point being that it's not always ball down to get the look you want/need.
Good observation. I still don't get this argument that lower end equipment gets the job done just as well. You just don't see it with better bowlers invested heavily in side pots and brackets who have a vested interested in scoring as high as possible.
I bowl league with a former PBA national champion who has a release and effortless revs that 99.999% of all bowlers would give their left arm for. If anyone could get away with lower end equipment as a conscious choice, this guy could.
My last time bowling match point against him he pulls out a Track 920T taken down to 2000 grit Abralon. I asked him about it, and he said he had been getting too much over/under on our extreme second shift wet/dry, and wanted to smooth it out. It turned out very much to be the right choice....
Anyway, I can see on really trashed conditions that going 'ball down' is the right thing to do. I always carry a few mid-range pieces with me just for those situations, but using them is the exception -- not the rule.
Post by: BackToBasics on December 22, 2010, 07:43:59 PM
quote:quote:
My point being that it's not always ball down to get the look you want/need.
Good observation. I still don't get this argument that lower end equipment gets the job done just as well. You just don't see it with better bowlers invested heavily in side pots and brackets who have a vested interested in scoring as high as possible.
I bowl league with a former PBA national champion who has a release and effortless revs that 99.999% of all bowlers would give their left arm for. If anyone could get away with lower end equipment as a conscious choice, this guy could.
My last time bowling match point against him he pulls out a Track 920T taken down to 2000 grit Abralon. I asked him about it, and he said he had been getting too much over/under on our extreme second shift wet/dry, and wanted to smooth it out. It turned out very much to be the right choice....
Anyway, I can see on really trashed conditions that going 'ball down' is the right thing to do. I always carry a few mid-range pieces with me just for those situations, but using them is the exception -- not the rule.
I believe that bowlers, even the extremely good ones, have been fed the kool-aid so much that they believe they need the HP ball. So it becomes a cycle, all they have are HP balls so of course that is what you always see them scoring with. Most won't take the time, or believe necessary to even try mid-range equipment. It probably doesn't occur to them that hey, I can sand this Nomad or even a polished pearl. I know so many "good" bowlers who refuse to sand a pearl or factory polished ball like it is sacrilege. Yet there are so many pearl balls that are coming factory sanded.
You use the example of a bowler switching to a 920T taken down to 2000 grit to tame wet/dry, but that surface management can be done with any ball. What made the 920T so special? I don't know the Track series that well, but a 7 or 5 series sanded could easily have blended the wet/dry.
As a former staffer, I had the ability to throw HP balls as easily as the mid and low range. Once I discovered the surface manipulation that was going on, I tried it on one of the mid-range balls and was amazed at the difference. Not just sanding the polished ball with 2000. Going 360/500 and a quick 2000 by hand easily enabled the mid-range ball to cover the same volume as the HP one.
Post by: Steven on December 23, 2010, 06:45:41 AM
quote:
I believe that bowlers, even the extremely good ones, have been fed the kool-aid so much that they believe they need the HP ball. So it becomes a cycle, all they have are HP balls so of course that is what you always see them scoring with. Most won't take the time, or believe necessary to even try mid-range equipment.
LOL... This particular ex-champion has also been a long Pro Shop owner and manufacturer rep. He throws lots of different equipment ranging from middle to high performance. He certainly hasn't OD'ed on equipment kool-aid.
The wonder of bowling is that we can bowl on the same conditions and come up with very different conclusions on what works and what doesn't. Personally, having experimented with lots if mid to high range equipment, I've found I generally get better read and carry with the HP stuff. I'd rather work the cover (higher abralon grits and/or polish) on a HP piece for higher friction conditions than go with a lower end ball. At least as a first option.
Again, it's a matter of experience and personal preference.
Post by: dizzyfugu on December 23, 2010, 06:56:29 AM
quote:
First, the customer is correct....and yes this does pertain to the topic!! I've talked to pro shops and most will agree that if a customer wants a high performance ball, they will gladly sell one. I have no respect for a pro shop that sells one to a customer that's not looking for one though....no.
That's true and also "part of the problem". Marketing is a great thing about belief, non-fathomable arguments and self-delusion, and surely pro shops are gladly selling balls with bigger price tags to customers who THINK that a ball with a huge price tag must be better... than what? That's how a market works.
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DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany
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Post by: Dan Belcher on December 23, 2010, 07:06:54 AM
quote:And maybe, just maybe, the sanded 920T evened out the wet/dry better and gave him better carry than a sanded 7 series or 5 series ball because it matched up well with his release and line on the particular conditions he was facing?
You use the example of a bowler switching to a 920T taken down to 2000 grit to tame wet/dry, but that surface management can be done with any ball. What made the 920T so special? I don't know the Track series that well, but a 7 or 5 series sanded could easily have blended the wet/dry.
The physics involved in bowling are EXTREMELY complex, and there are times when a high performance ball is better suited than a cheaper ball, and there are also times when a low-priced, medium RG pearl with surface is the better option. Is it that hard to understand? YES a lot of bowlers quite frankly don't know any better and just assume more hook is better and higher priced means better. But that doesn't mean the exact opposite is true either! Sometimes I need the extra traction in oil that a Gravity Shift will give me compared to my Tropical Heat to create a more suitable ball motion. Sometimes I need the extra skid and easily length the Tropical Heat will give me. There is no magic bullet here.
Post by: trash heap on December 23, 2010, 07:38:56 AM
Sometimes that Mid Line ball works really well for bowlers.