Author Topic: Changes in your game (Read 3349 times)

Jorge300 · « **on:** December 12, 2008, 12:30:23 AM »

I took a lesson from Mike Jasnau at Nationals this summer. He showed me some things on the video that I was totally not aware of, and made some minor/major changes to my swing. I think in the long run it will be good for my game. But as expected, I am struggling a little this year because of it. My question is to anyone who has made some major tweaks to their game in the past.....how long does it take until you are back to or above your old level? And how much practicing did you do in order to meet that timeframe?

I will be the first to admit, I need to get out and practice more then I do now, especially to work on these changes. But just curious to what others have seen in the past. Thanks.
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Jorge300

Jorge300 · « **Reply #16 on:** December 12, 2008, 01:00:59 PM »

Thanks everyone so for their responses so far.

One big thing I see is how big the change is, well I let you all decide, lol. What we saw on the video was how much I muscled the ball through my swing. I knew I did this, just not to the extent the video showed. I use a 4 step approach. I used to start with my heals off the approach. In my second step, my timing was late, the ball was still not at the top of my backswing. But at release, my timing was actually a little early. So between steps 2 and 4 I pulled the ball down hard enough to make up for the delay and then some. Mike had me move up on the approach and focus on getting my timing started off right. Also worked on pushing the ball up and out and allowing gravity to do the work and free up my swing.

I think in the long run these are good changes, less muscling the ball will allow me to continue to bowl well as I get older. Plus he reduced my MPh by just a hair, which is good cause I used to average about 19MPH, and even with my 390-400 RPM's I was still too speed dominant. What I see now is the fact that my timing still isn't down with the new approach. Some nights it is only a few balls other nights its more where I am pulling the shot or pushing it right because my timing is off. The other thing I see is that my reduced speed is hurting a little in league, because we bowl second shift. While 1/2 - 1 mph may not seem like a lot, it seems to get magnified on the dryer shot.

And yes, I do have the DVD from my lesson, and have reviewed it a few times since I have been back.
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Jorge300

Mike Austin · « **Reply #17 on:** December 12, 2008, 05:41:50 PM »

Hey Big Man!!

Glad to see you still working on your game. For those that don't know Jorge300, he can play, his game wasn't bad to begin with. He did struggle on some of the PBA type patterns, very high ball speed. Crushed them on our late league though. Glad he didn't load up in brackets, I took some money that he would have won!! He has done well in a couple regionals, good spare shooter, tough customer.

Your muscled swing wasn't so much of an issue, you are a big person. But yes, freeing up your armswing, will get the ball on the lane smoother, and make your body position better to repeat shots. Which I'm sure this is all geared towards bowling better on the PBA conditions.

Everybody is different. Obviously, depends on how much you practice and how well you use that time. Some people adapt to changes very well. Derrick Woods is sick!!! He can do 3, 4, 5 steps at any time, and strike with all. And, do all 3 in his tennis shoes too. So athletic, great physical frame for bowling too.

I was always able to adapt pretty well, I worked with Carol a lot, but I was able to practice every day/night when I had the shop. This cut down on the transition time.

Also depends on how far you are going away from what you do naturally. I was lucky that my natural swing/game didn't need a lot of changes over time, but some tweaks helped me loosen my swing, picking up ball speed, and lessened the early hook that seemed to get with my frisbee release.

You can do it, keep watching your DVD, maybe talk to Carol/Donna, they are smart. Keep working Big Man!! Merry Christmas!!

MikeA

janderson · « **Reply #18 on:** December 15, 2008, 06:36:53 AM »

quote:
And yes, I do have the DVD from my lesson, and have reviewed it a few times since I have been back.

Very good. Mr. Jasnau also does a good job of teaching how to look at a video of yourself (or anyone for that matter) and evaluate it an unemotional, unbiased fashion. If you have access to a video camera, it is a great tool because you can compare results. The video camera doesn't lie.

It is easy to relate to pulling it down from the top of the swing instead of letting gravity do the work. Mr. Austin is correct. When you start to overcome that, it is easier to flatten your release plain, set the ball down "softer", and get the ball to roll earlier and easier. With your ball speed and rev rate, that would be devastating.

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J.J. "Waterola Kid" Anderson - "Better than Jello" - Kill the back row

Jorge300 · « **Reply #19 on:** December 15, 2008, 09:31:31 AM »

Mr. Austin, you are too kind. Merry Christmas to you too!! We miss you here in Houston. You are correct, I would like to do a little better on the PBA and other sport conditions like Nationals. I will take your advice on looking up Carol/Donna, was thinking about that myself, just to validate I am staying on track with the changes Mike had discussed.

JAnderson, thanks for your thoughts. I do have access to a camera, but a tripod isn't as easily accessible, lol. But I hope to try and get some new vids to review next to the DVD from Mike. I hope you are correct, not sure about the devastating though, I'll settle for very competitive.

This isn't a real big change, I don't think. Just a move up on the approach, and trying to relax my armswing and let gravity do the work. The biggest thing is this is really the first big change I've made to my game in a long long time. Most of what you saw when you were here was natural, not a lot of practice, just what I did naturally. So it is big in the fact that it is a first for me, so I am thinking it will take a little time to perfect.

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Jorge300

dizzyfugu · « **Reply #20 on:** December 15, 2008, 09:31:31 AM »

When I did some major changes in my approach (suggested by some high level bowlers with good reps from local clubs), it took up to half a year to incorporate these changes into a routine delivery - e .g. the attempt to start the approach with fixed knees and a half-sitting position. Was awkward at first, but paid out in a much better overall timing, a true slide at the foul line and much better lift upon the ball's release. It was worth it! Smaller things like balancing arm position took immediate effect, though.

Anyway, when trying new things, I would not force the issue. I think it is most important to build up routine, and keep on checking whether you are working on the right things the right way. Routine can also deepen flaws, if you do the wrong things, so IMHO further coaching (and if it is just a check after some weeks) is quite important.
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Jorge300 · « **Reply #21 on:** December 17, 2008, 02:45:23 PM »

ttt
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Jorge300

al_g · « **Reply #22 on:** December 18, 2008, 12:41:28 PM »

For a short answer, based on my experience I'd say 4-6 months. Also, expect things to get worse before they get better. Change takes time.

Going into more detail:
Last February my pro shop guy had Steve Richter and Chris Sand in for coaching and equipment recommendations. I worked with Chris Sand. He asked me what I thought I needed to work on(I said approach) and then he video taped me. Based on that he agreed that I needed to change my approach and later on recommended I change my push away and release. It sounds like a lot but I'd say for me the approach was a big change because it messed with my timing. The other things were minor tweaks.

Like you, I don't get out to practice much so I was using league to practice. I did this for about a month. I struggled in league. For reference, I usually average between 215-220 and threw a lot of 500's and at best could only manage 620's. Finally, with USBC, local and State tournaments coming up I abandoned what Chris had recommended for what I knew. This got me through the end of last season and I did OK in the tournaments.

Starting this August I decided to try again what Chris had recommended but to implement it piece by piece - first the approach, then the push away, then the release. I think it's really important to make one change at a time instead of overwhelming yourself trying to change many things at once.

I practiced some but since my time is limited I was still using league as practice. After 6-8 weeks I felt comfortable with the approach and then started adding the push away changes into my game. It only took a couple of weeks to where I felt comfortable with the push away and then another 2-3 weeks for the release change. I have fully incorporated the approach and push away into my game now. The release change I'll only use depending on how the lanes play. My "natural" release has a lot of forward roll and very low axis rotation - I'd say 10-15 degrees. What Chris showed me allows me get get around 30-45 degrees. I wasn't sure I could do that because of previous hand/wrist surgeries but I can and I'm glad he showed me how to do it again. There are times my hand/wrist won't allow me to do it, but 90% of the time I can when I need to.

I do agree with BowlingWolf in that you need to discern what will benefit your game and discard what doesn't work. But give all of them a try first and be patient.

The end result is since I used league as practice my averages are down this year to 210 and 213, from a pair of 216's a year ago. I'm confident they'll go up now that I'm comfortable with the changes. Without figjamming too much, in tournaments this season I've been the most successful I've ever been - two firsts and a third out of six scratch tournaments. I'll give full credit for this to Chris Sand and his coaching.

sheppy335 · « **Reply #23 on:** December 19, 2008, 06:27:04 AM »

When i made major changes to my game,it took me almost a whole season to see the payoff. When it started paying off i was happy i made the changes. Stick with it and in the long run you will be glad you did
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Oil is served Best with fingers!

Why does the 8 Pin laugh at me!

Sheppy

burly1 · « **Reply #24 on:** December 19, 2008, 06:51:27 AM »

Well I probably take longer than most to incorporate changes, I changed my approach slightly and my release a lot and dropped from 16 to 15lb. back in May and I am just now scoring a little better than before the change, and I bowl 2 leagues full time, sub a fair amount on 1 other league, and practice every Sunday, I guess my old mind and body are just stubborn,lol
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Patrick

Jorge300 · « **Reply #25 on:** December 22, 2008, 02:44:43 PM »

One last ttt
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Jorge300

janderson · « **Reply #26 on:** December 23, 2008, 09:50:24 AM »

sdbowler's point is probably the best. The more strongly something is grooved/ingrained into muscle memory, the more difficult it is going to be to change. Difficult does not necessarily equal more time consuming, but that's usually the case.

If it makes you feel any better, it has taken me almost three years to take the muscle, trigger, squeeze, and "hit" out of my release, but I had 25+ years of "starting the lawn mower" in muscle memory

Even so, it still creeps back into my game when I "press" or tighten up - but that's more a factor of the mental game.
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J.J. "Waterola Kid" Anderson - "Better than Jello" - Kill the back row

Edited on 12/23/2008 10:51 AM

Author Topic: Changes in your game (Read 3349 times)

Jorge300

Changes in your game

Jorge300

Re: Changes in your game

Mike Austin

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janderson

Re: Changes in your game

Jorge300

Re: Changes in your game

dizzyfugu

Re: Changes in your game

Jorge300

Re: Changes in your game

al_g

Re: Changes in your game

sheppy335

Re: Changes in your game

burly1

Re: Changes in your game

Jorge300

Re: Changes in your game

janderson

Re: Changes in your game