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Author Topic: Banning belly putters is the same as banning 2 handed bowling  (Read 7184 times)

rockerbowler18

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Banning belly putters is the same as banning 2 handed bowling
« on: November 28, 2012, 04:55:04 PM »
The new rule proposed by golf's governorning bodies would eliminate the anchoring of belly and broomstick putters and is exactly the same as if bowling decided to ban 2 handed deliveries.

People claim that anchoring the putter is a competitive advantage, but this is 100% false. It cannot be a competitive advantage so long as EVERYONE IS ALLOWED TO DO IT. If anchoring the putter is so great, Tiger Woods, Rory McIlroy, and anyone else is welcome to use it, just like 2 handed bowling.

I have heard the argument "the people who go to belly putters are the people who have no success with traditional putting." ironically this statement came from a 2 handed bowler who had little success 1 handed and then started winning once he went to 2 hands.

I have also heard the argument that traditional putting brings nerves into play more - so does 1 handed bowling: if your thumb isn't in the ball, but your other hand is, it becomes pretty hard to squeeze or drop it under pressure.

You're taking away an element that makes the game far more enjoyable - and if you want to grow the game of golf, you need to WELCOME the style just like bowling has.

And before people start telling me I'm biased: I bowl 1 handed and putt traditionally.

 

jls

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Re: Banning belly putters is the same as banning 2 handed bowling
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2012, 05:25:17 PM »
This is a silly stupid new rule...For Years and Years these putters have been
allowed...Now because a few guys won a major using them, the golfing
rulers felt the need to change the rules...

The best players in the game don't use them...

Rory, Luke, Tiger...

Now the players who switched to the long putter to save their backs are screwed...

Stupid rule...goes into affect in 2016...

Rightycomplex

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Re: Banning belly putters is the same as banning 2 handed bowling
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2012, 06:26:40 PM »
The anchored putter is not quite the same as 2 handed bowling. I thought the same thing, but as it was explained to me, the anchored putter takes the the swing itself out of play. 2-handed bowling is a lot harder to master than bowling with 1. Once form is downpacked accuracy becomes the next and biggest issue to deal with. The added revs can be an advantage but moreso a curse as the transitions are bigger and faster. The equipment becomes limited and the layouts become more important as not to overflare.
Aside from that as a 2 hander, you are not taking the swing out of play, merely adding more torque. Adding more torque means less accuracy because you are applying more muscle. As I have witnessed Belmonte and Osku on there journey through the PBA, they has learned to relax their swings, slow down the footwork, and post shots. This in my opinions have made them elite bowlers. This, however, has no effect on the actual swing path, there's no device to help any bowler deliver the ball through the swing path better or take the swing out of play, outside of practice and coaching.
My guess is that the USGA doesnt want to make the same mistake as bowling, in which equipment rules over skill. They want a marketable face over a club, whereas bowling is the opposite. Maybe not as much on the professional level, but definitely on the amateur and entry levels. If anything would be comparable,  you would change THS to make the equipment less automatic to the pocket.
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stormed1

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Re: Banning belly putters is the same as banning 2 handed bowling
« Reply #3 on: November 28, 2012, 06:44:43 PM »
I just think that if you are a 2 handed bowler you should have to be two handed for spares too. We can't shoot spares with the oposite hand so 2 hander should have to do it the same as their strike ball
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Pinbuster

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Re: Banning belly putters is the same as banning 2 handed bowling
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2012, 06:55:49 PM »
The PBA allows players to use either hand during a game if they wish.

Only the USBC doesn't allow it to help keep down sandbagging. No reason to sandbag on the tour.

Equating it to bowling it would be more like using a ramp to roll the ball rather using your arm to swing the ball.

As far as golf banning it, I'm torn.

rockerbowler18

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Re: Banning belly putters is the same as banning 2 handed bowling
« Reply #5 on: November 28, 2012, 07:24:37 PM »
1. the anchored putter takes the the swing itself out of play.

2. 2-handed bowling is a lot harder to master than bowling with 1. Once form is downpacked accuracy becomes the next and biggest issue to deal with.

3. The added revs can be an advantage but moreso a curse as the transitions are bigger and faster.

4. The equipment becomes limited and the layouts become more important as not to overflare.

5. Aside from that as a 2 hander, you are not taking the swing out of play, merely adding more torque.

6. Adding more torque means less accuracy because you are applying more muscle.

7. As I have witnessed Belmonte and Osku on there journey through the PBA, they has learned to relax their swings, slow down the footwork, and post shots.

8. This, however, has no effect on the actual swing path, there's no device to help any bowler deliver the ball through the swing path better or take the swing out of play, outside of practice and coaching.

9. My guess is that the USGA doesnt want to make the same mistake as bowling, in which equipment rules over skill.

I broke it down to 9 points which I feel covers your premise and I can compare most accurately:

1. The pendulum shoulder motion is still very similar.

2. Anchored putting is just as hard to master as traditional putting, otherwise, everyone would just switch over and there would be no argument. Not only that, but 1 handed bowling is just as hard to "master" and I would argue that on a house shot, 1 handed bowling is tougher because everything doesn't go right and funnel into the pocket. But that's beside the point.

3. Added stability can be a benefit but just as much a curse because of increased rigidity in the "hinge" causing your putter face to get stuck open.

4. The equipment needs to be more precise in length and use because too long or short of a putter or too much or little of a bend in the waist will cause the putter to be off line/get stuck open/closed.

5. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOij1prDhmI I see no swing there. Pretty much out of play. Not to mention speed is generated with the core in a 2 handed game, whereas backswing height generates most of the velocity in a 1 handed game.

6. Adding rigidity means less accuracy because you're more likely to get stuck or out of position.

7. As I have watched Els and Mickelson learn to use the long putter, I have seen them develop their putting games.

8. Players making the switch to a different putter employ coaches specifically for the switch and spend countless hours practicing. The different putter is not a quick fix. Much like switching to 2 handed bowling. It's not a quick fix. It's just something that in the long run provides an advantage in the power game.

9. If the USGA doesn't want equipment taking over, why do they allow the super golf balls, 460 cc driver heads, and steel shafts? If that was their aim, they need to take it back to persimmon woods and hickory shafts. A belly putter is no different than changing the span of your ball. It's not a different technology. It's a choice on whether you like your span stretched or relaxed.

rockerbowler18

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Re: Banning belly putters is the same as banning 2 handed bowling
« Reply #6 on: November 28, 2012, 07:30:18 PM »
Also I'd like to make it very clear that I do not think two handed bowling is easy. That's my point. Two handed bowling and anchored putting are both difficult and present advantages as well as disadvantages.

LuckyLefty

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Re: Banning belly putters is the same as banning 2 handed bowling
« Reply #7 on: November 28, 2012, 08:03:19 PM »
Yes.

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Rightycomplex

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Re: Banning belly putters is the same as banning 2 handed bowling
« Reply #8 on: November 28, 2012, 09:01:34 PM »
All good points rocket,

I cant argue with any of them. Their are definitely great comparisions between the two.
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scotts33

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Re: Banning belly putters is the same as banning 2 handed bowling
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2012, 01:36:05 AM »
Exactly...that is what the R&A/USGA it's about the stroke used not anything else.

Comparing two handed style bowling to belly/long putter use isn't even close.  The better discussion would be poly/rubber/maybe urethane to belly/long putter.  Equipment to equipment not technique.

What the R&A/USGA need to do is reel back the ball and putter usage on scratch events and leave recreational players alone.  BUT, they don't want to police the game.  Think about it golf is the only honorable game where players call penalties on themselves.

Quote
I thought the same thing, but as it was explained to me, the anchored putter takes the the swing itself out of play.
Scott

kidlost2000

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Re: Banning belly putters is the same as banning 2 handed bowling
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2012, 04:02:03 AM »
They tried to Tiger proof courses at one time but the younger players coming up all have the ability to crush the ball. Now people go to belly putters to help with there inability to putt and this is enough to ban it in 4 years??? Laughable!!! Two handed bowling isn't easier. It does give many the ability to greatly increase their rev rate that they couldnt do with one hand. This seems like an advantage to most but really isnt. THS helps make that preception seem true. Just like belly putters dont give pros a real advantage.
…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

BallReviews-Removed0385

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Re: Banning belly putters is the same as banning 2 handed bowling
« Reply #11 on: November 29, 2012, 07:21:40 AM »
In my mind golf and bowling should not be mentioned in the same argument.  Golf is 10 times more difficult than bowling.

If your club face is 1/4" off at impact it can easily be the difference of 50-60 yards in any direction.  We have 60 feet to worry about in bowling, and we bowl indoors.  No wind, rain, sand, rough, trees, to worry about.

Bowling is definitely not easy at times (PBA & sport shots will test us), but it will never, ever require the precision that golf takes at the highest level.

By the way, I don't think belly putters should be banned. Every player who wants to could have used the same type of putter.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 08:38:56 AM by notclay »

rockerbowler18

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Re: Banning belly putters is the same as banning 2 handed bowling
« Reply #12 on: November 29, 2012, 09:41:07 AM »
Quote
Comparing two handed style bowling to belly/long putter use isn't even close.  The better discussion would be poly/rubber/maybe urethane to belly/long putter.  Equipment to equipment not technique.

Then what would you liken wood putters without insets or grooves to? A putter from the 1970s is not the same as one today. Belly putting is a style, not an equipment. They're using the same technology, just a different style.

scotts33

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Re: Banning belly putters is the same as banning 2 handed bowling
« Reply #13 on: November 29, 2012, 09:44:17 AM »
http://thegolfpurist.blogspot.com/2010/11/bulls-eye-simple-and-elegant.html 

Mark McNulty and Corey Pavin plus others would disagree.  Using old Bullseye putters.  :)

Quote
Comparing two handed style bowling to belly/long putter use isn't even close.  The better discussion would be poly/rubber/maybe urethane to belly/long putter.  Equipment to equipment not technique.

Then what would you liken wood putters without insets or grooves to? A putter from the 1970s is not the same as one today. Belly putting is a style, not an equipment. They're using the same technology, just a different style.
Scott

TWOHAND834

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Re: Banning belly putters is the same as banning 2 handed bowling
« Reply #14 on: November 29, 2012, 09:54:56 AM »
Of course you know I am going to chime in on this.  In regards to the USGA ban, I can see banning the anchored putter but not the long putter.  Its not like Adam Scott, Ernie Els, Webb Simpson, and Keegan Bradley ruled the tour this year.  Adam won ZERO tournaments and the rest won one a piece.  Out of 30+ tournaments, those won by a anchored putter is fairly insignificant.  As a fan of Tiger (on course), sometimes I think he needs to just shut up and play.  He wont divulge himself personally but doesnt hesitate to share an opinion about what he thinks is right and wrong in regards to the rules and/or equipment.

In regards to the golf ball, I dont think it has made the game easier as you still have to hit it straight.  If thats the case, then John Daly would have 50 tour titles.  John Senden would have a bunch.  Robert Garrigus would have won at least 5 times this year.  Alviro Quiros should be in the Player of the Year running every year.

In regards to 2 handed bowling making the game easier; I think it is different for everyone.  When I switched, I already averaged almost 220 one handed.  So my average only went up 10 pins.  Someone else may be a 170 average one handed and immediately go over 200 two handed.  I dont think two handed bowling made the game easier.  The lane conditions make the game easier.  Rev rate is nothing more than feast or famine.  On the right conditions, rev rate will reign supreme.  However, get on a tougher condition and it can be your worst nightmare.  My only thing about people complaining about the two handed style, is that alot of people when asked of they would rather bowl one handed or two; they say one handed because they would rather be more accurate and have more longevity.  But, then they also say that they hate two handers because it gives an advantage.  So my question is:  if it is such an advantage, then why arent more people going to it?  It is gaining popularity.  But, it isnt like you walk into any league night and see half the people using it. 
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