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Author Topic: Ball Dilemma  (Read 5306 times)

TWOHAND834

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Ball Dilemma
« on: September 26, 2014, 09:59:40 PM »
Not often am I on here with a dilemma as to what to do.  I am one to offer advice to help other members in need.  Here is my dilemma:

As most know; I have a 500+ rev rate.  The center I am bowling at has added more oil this year (volume as opposed to length).  On the fresh, I pretty much strike at will.  The dilemma is as we get halfway into the first game, the middle carries down noticeably.  I have a Disorder that the cover is real touchy.  At box finish; I think the cover digs too quickly as there is no entry angle and leave flat 10s.  If I take the cover to 3000-4000, the ball looks like it struggles to get started also leaving corner pins.  I have a Violent Eruption at 2000 plus Royal Compound.  The ball definitely has more cornering ability but is a tad too weak for the amount of oil in the middle until about midway through game two.  I am needing something that is stronger than the Violent cover wise and yet give me more backend reaction than the Disorder. 

I am teetering on another ball with surface (Gamebreaker 2) or something that is a stronger pearl than my Violent.  I like to stay with symmetrical as asymmetrical tends to give me more forward roll whereas I need a little sideways reaction since I am playing 17-18 at the arrows on the fresh and migrate slowly from there.  I have an Enigma but only works well when I can keep my angles straighter. 

As a side note:  The lanes are a little on the wet/dry side as they did not add any oil outside the 10 board when they added volume in the middle.  I want something that I can use my rev rate to my advantage and stay in the oil if I can.
Steven Vance
Former Pro Shop Operator
Former Classic Products Assistant Manager

 

Dave81644

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Re: Ball Dilemma
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2014, 11:06:04 PM »
my disorder is at 500+ polish, still gets through heads and has some teeth, no over under
pin is in middle finger, approx 5" pin-pap

GB2 is at OBB and it very arcing and predictable, same layout with pin in middle finger
needs head oil with it at OBB of 2000 dull

i like the lower grits and them polish, a little less maintenance than a dull surface and the over-under issues are far less noticeable with this surface

i would tweek the disorder surface 1st.
the Eruption Pro Hybrid would be a good choice, mine has a liitle stronger pin-pap at 4.25" pin down, love this ball

TWOHAND834

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Re: Ball Dilemma
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2014, 11:41:46 PM »
my disorder is at 500+ polish, still gets through heads and has some teeth, no over under
pin is in middle finger, approx 5" pin-pap

GB2 is at OBB and it very arcing and predictable, same layout with pin in middle finger
needs head oil with it at OBB of 2000 dull

i like the lower grits and them polish, a little less maintenance than a dull surface and the over-under issues are far less noticeable with this surface

i would tweek the disorder surface 1st.
the Eruption Pro Hybrid would be a good choice, mine has a liitle stronger pin-pap at 4.25" pin down, love this ball

Thank you for the suggestion.  I may try that and see what happens.  Heading to the shop in the morning so adjustment will come very soon.
Steven Vance
Former Pro Shop Operator
Former Classic Products Assistant Manager

Track_Fanatic

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Re: Ball Dilemma
« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2014, 11:58:21 PM »
If you could get your hands on a Deranged, I think that would fill the gap. They appear to be on clearance on a lot of sites. It's the same core as the disturbed and Asylum.

Rightycomplex

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Re: Ball Dilemma
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2014, 05:55:13 AM »
I would definitely consider more surface. Maybe 1000 or 500/compound or 500 polish as Dave suggested. Especially since they haven't changed the length of the pattern, you should be able to stand in the same spot if not a few boards closer to the friction with more surface and kick out corners.

With more oil you may want to consider straighter angles, who's on the pair with you, or an asym if you want another ball, as the asym will spin up faster than the symmetrical, to battle the carry down. If you are leaving corners then the ball isn't finishing early enough into the pocket.
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billdozer

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Re: Ball Dilemma
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2014, 10:25:35 AM »
That is where my "road" line comes in. 
In the bag [Infinite Physix, Volatility Torque, Night Road, Phaze III, Burner Solid, Hustle AU]
*Now Testing* IQ Ruby, Renevant, another IQ Tour solid
Coming soon...???

billdozer

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Re: Ball Dilemma
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2014, 10:29:56 AM »
I play the same area as my deranged, but once the transition starts the road line gets much more bite off the spot and I tend to carry more tens.

The disturbed and deranged seem to be great on fresh or with minimal breakdown....whereas I never bust out my roads until the oil begins to move noticeably.
In the bag [Infinite Physix, Volatility Torque, Night Road, Phaze III, Burner Solid, Hustle AU]
*Now Testing* IQ Ruby, Renevant, another IQ Tour solid
Coming soon...???

TWOHAND834

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Re: Ball Dilemma
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2014, 11:32:32 PM »
So I did what Dave suggested and took my Disorder to 500 and added Royal Compound over the top.  It will be a few days before I get to try it out.  Also....I spoke to the pro shop guy that knows my game very well.  He mentioned trying to play the lanes a little differently.  Then if that doesnt work, we could look at some options to help me more on the backend of the lane.  He said the new Exile, Yeti Uncaged, and Optimus could be options.  I am going to give it a couple weeks and see what happens.  Feel a new rock is in the future though.  Thanks for the suggestions thus far.  Will update everyone once I throw the Disorder one more time.
Steven Vance
Former Pro Shop Operator
Former Classic Products Assistant Manager

LuckyLefty

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Re: Ball Dilemma
« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2014, 09:43:07 AM »
Twohand,

I agree with your driller.

When the backends go to slop I like balls with higher diffs than the Eruption series of .40 diffs.  Those are great specs often for fresh and wet dry patterns.  Balls suggested by him of diffs over .50 even if drilled weak seem to power thru backend slop with their additional flare potential.

I am also a big fan of assymetricals for that purpose.

Today there is maybe no better ball for backend slop than the Hammer Jet Black Taboo.

I have made the big young guns cry some days using this awesome combination of responsive coverstock and strong core power to churn thru the slop at the back.

Regards,

Luckylefty
It takes Courage to have Faith, and Faith to have Courage.

James M. McCurley, New Orleans, Louisiana

TWOHAND834

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Re: Ball Dilemma
« Reply #9 on: September 28, 2014, 07:57:23 PM »
Twohand,

I agree with your driller.

When the backends go to slop I like balls with higher diffs than the Eruption series of .40 diffs.  Those are great specs often for fresh and wet dry patterns.  Balls suggested by him of diffs over .50 even if drilled weak seem to power thru backend slop with their additional flare potential.

I am also a big fan of assymetricals for that purpose.

Today there is maybe no better ball for backend slop than the Hammer Jet Black Taboo.

I have made the big young guns cry some days using this awesome combination of responsive coverstock and strong core power to churn thru the slop at the back.

Regards,

Luckylefty


I tend to stay away from asymmetricals because from deeper inside, the ball tends to roll more forward for me whereas I need a little sideways to kick the corners.  Asymmetrical is okay as long as the intermediate diff is fairly low.  However; if it gets above .010, then they only work well for me when I can go more up the track area.  Shot 800 with an Enigma a couple years ago playing 13-15 at the arrows out to 7-8- breakpoint.  But, even with adding polish; when I try to play deeper, the ball is a little too rolly on the backend to carry the corners.  My Violent Eruption is fantastic from the deeper angles.  I just need a stronger cover for the volume of oil I am seeing. 
Steven Vance
Former Pro Shop Operator
Former Classic Products Assistant Manager

Dave81644

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Re: Ball Dilemma
« Reply #10 on: September 28, 2014, 09:29:33 PM »
Ditto for the asymmetrics here as well
they just tend to change direction to quickly for me most of the time
I did love the 505ts though, had several of those
the more i participate on the sport & challenge patterns, the more i like the symmetrical cores.
Im tellig you, the eruption pro hybrid would be a good step down form the disorder, much different shape, but good none-the-less
 

spmcgivern

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Re: Ball Dilemma
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2014, 08:26:57 AM »
I am also in the "anti asymmetrical" camp.  The forward roll just doesn't suit me well.  It could be the drillings, but I just haven't been as impressed.

I like the idea of changing the way you play the lanes.  Depending on how the track plays, I could see balling down to a solid or hybrid (depending on the length of the shot) and trying to be more direct. 

I am interest to hear about your results since I feel I am dealing with the same issues.  Unfortunately I only take 2 balls to league and don't have as many options as most.

TWOHAND834

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Re: Ball Dilemma
« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2014, 09:00:22 AM »
UPDATE:  After taking my Disorder to 500 abralon with Royal Compound; I took to the lanes last night.  Definitely made a difference.  I didnt really play the lanes much different than I had been other than targeting a breakpoint a little further outside (8-10 as opposed to 12-13).  Start out 247 first game with one bad pitch.  As the lanes started to tighten up in the middle, I kept my eyes in the same place and just moved a pinch right with my feet.  The difference was where I was getting very little movement and leaving flat 10s; I left only two solid 10s all night.  Shot 258 second game with a stone 9 and stone 10.  As I figured, as I had to get deeper on the lane as the night when on; it was still a little flat on the backend.  So I switched to the Violent Eruption with a similar layout and played 23-25 at the arrows to about 12-13 breakpoint and shot 265 game game for a 766 series. 

Its strange how when you think tight shot; your first thought is need more surface to bite through that oil volume.  Strangely enough it was exactly the opposite.  That little bit of Royal Compound over that rougher surface made a big difference.

Thanks Dave for the suggestion!  Looking forward to seeing what the next few weeks holds just to see if I get the same reaction as now I go to the complete opposite end of the center next week (39-30 last night, 3-4 next week).
Steven Vance
Former Pro Shop Operator
Former Classic Products Assistant Manager

Dave81644

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Re: Ball Dilemma
« Reply #13 on: October 05, 2014, 09:03:44 PM »
im glad it worked out for you
i have been using the lower surfaces for about a year or so
Tip given to me by Bill Monce, great coach and has a ton of knowledge
Has a Cliff Barnes shop in Milwaukee