Author Topic: bowlers that mess your game up (Read 12074 times)

Deez_Nutts24 · « **on:** June 10, 2007, 01:54:00 PM »

Well i wanted to ask this question? Have you ever had anyone mess up your line to the pocket. You know like straight bowlers who throw balls dead in the middle of the lane and push oil out to your break point or some idiot who would take a sanded ball and just throw it everywhere and change your shot and affect your carry.. good example is this one guy who i hate bowling against and he spins the shyt out of the ball and doesnt have a direct line to the pocket and just completely kills my game all night..i adjust and try to move away from him but then he starts erratic shots and throws sanded balls and man im mad lol cant explain no more..But dont you just hate that

« **Reply #1 on:** June 10, 2007, 10:01:49 PM »

It does happen. That's why it's important for you to know what kind of ball they're throwing, and where, so you can anticipate making whatever move is necessary.
If you can think ahead and know what your plan is beforehand, it will be easier to implement it in the heat of the battle so to speak. You can't always guess right, but to make the plan ahead while you're thinking clearly can always help.

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notclay

Nails · « **Reply #2 on:** June 10, 2007, 10:05:58 PM »

It's all in your head. A sprayer can't change your line effectively. The PBA pro's can because they CAN throw the same line over and over plus they have enough time to do so. If some clown throwing a ball all over the place bothers you, it's you, not him.
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Telling it like it is.

« **Reply #3 on:** June 10, 2007, 10:38:20 PM »

Give me one game (maybe 1 and a half) and a polyester ball and I guarantee that I can change your breakpoint. The same is true if I take out a heavy load particle ball that is sanded at 220.

The only way this does not apply is if the lanes are already dry to start with, so there's no oil to move around or soak up.

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notclay

Edited on 6/10/2007 10:42 PM

Nails · « **Reply #4 on:** June 11, 2007, 05:53:08 AM »

quote:
Give me one game (maybe 1 and a half) and a polyester ball and I guarantee that I can change your breakpoint. The same is true if I take out a heavy load particle ball that is sanded at 220.

The only way this does not apply is if the lanes are already dry to start with, so there's no oil to move around or soak up.

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notclay

Don't think so. With a super dull thrown accurately over and over, you might eventually dry the heads some, but you're not going to do squat to the break point. Even most of the best amateur's aren't accurate enough to hit the same spot repeatedly. That's what it takes to change a lane. The break point rarely changes, and even the PBA guys would have a hard time hitting the same board at 40 feet with something dull enough to matter over and over. I've tried the plastic trick hoping to add just enough carry down to a weak handed player hitting super light and caving the entire left side in every shot. I shot a nice game, but didn't affect his carry to any noticeable amount.
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Telling it like it is.

mainzer · « **Reply #5 on:** June 11, 2007, 08:54:20 AM »

Well IMO I really don't give a crap who is throwing what where plastic or a dull ball just make adjustments.

As a rule when I see it happening I will move way off of his line as he dries it out I will move way left and bounce my ball off the dry area he as created works pretty well as long as it is just one person doing it.
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Mainzerpower

bamaster · « **Reply #6 on:** June 11, 2007, 10:04:17 AM »

quote:
It's all in your head. A sprayer can't change your line effectively. The PBA pro's can because they CAN throw the same line over and over plus they have enough time to do so. If some clown throwing a ball all over the place bothers you, it's you, not him.

I agree. Especially during a 3-game league. Not enough games for real break down. Even in regionals where you bowl 8 or 9 games in qualifying, you move every game. Lanes break down very differently there.

But in league, if someone is spraying the ball they are not doing a whole lot to the shot.
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Tony
My Bowling Classifieds
My Bowling Journal | My Ball Registry & Grip Specs

« **Reply #7 on:** June 11, 2007, 10:05:19 AM »

Nails,

I'm not talking about SCORING with the plastic ball. I'm talking about changing your breakpoint. To do that I'd have to sacrifice my score, which is why I wouldn't do it, other than to prove my point.

If you truly think that polyester balls don't push the oil down the lane, you either haven't experienced it yourself, or you've been misinformed. And perhaps your center doesn't put enough oil down to see much of a change, but where I bowl it can change quite a bit.

Not all lane conditioners act the same. Some of the cheaper stuff carries down way more than the better (higher viscosity) conditioners.

One of these days go to your local center following lots of open play with the house balls, walk down the lane about 50 feet and wipe your fingers across the lane and see if it's squeaky clean...

Every reactive ball, and even the particle balls, require friction to hook and drive through the pin deck effectively. If there's no friction there's no hook.

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notclay

Edited on 6/11/2007 10:05 AM

MegaMav · « **Reply #8 on:** June 11, 2007, 10:24:08 AM »

I had a teammate that used 2 fingers to spray a black urethane hammer across about 15 different boards of breakpoint. Trust me, I strugged to stay consistent over a 5 shot period in his area. With the polished hard shell, he pushed the oil all over the place. I averaged 220 while he was on a 6 week vacation.

The only move for me was extreme outside (up 5) with a mellow pearl cover.
It was the only place he was scared to go, and offered me the best chance for higher scores and CONSISTENCY.

If I moved inside and turned the ball, his sprayed oil in the track area would skate my ball right into the 3 pin.

Now that I think of it, there wasnt 1 honor score shot against our team this season, I think the highest was a 268.

If you're not seeing the effect of plastic/urethane hard shells on patterns, you're either:

1. Blind
2. Inexperienced
3. Using waaaay too much coverstock surface for the condition, and chucking it down the lane 18+ MPH.
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USBC Certified Bowler
2006-07 Average: 209

BallReviews Chat

Nails · « **Reply #9 on:** June 11, 2007, 10:39:11 AM »

You guys need to come back to reality. A Saturday night with dozens of kids throwing plastic all over the place is entirely different than what someone can accomplish in a few games. Throwing a plastic ball straight at someone's break point is a silly arguement as well. Even if you did change someone's 200 into a 175, what does that prove if you shoot 89? I know plastic causes carry down, but you're not going to do much damage in a few games. The pro's might throw on up 15 to create some hold, but again, they're more accurate than us, and have a LOT more time to do so.

Like Tony said, oil changes all the time. You have to change every so often no matter what. Because a sprayer isn't hitting the same place twice, he isn't effective at changing the pattern much. If he's hitting "15 different boards of break point", that's no different than any other league schmo. It takes a while to change a break point even if you know what you're doing. At that rate, in 3 games, he would only hit each break point board a few times. If you can't handle that, you shouldn't be averaging duece on anything except pure china.
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Telling it like it is.

bamaster · « **Reply #10 on:** June 11, 2007, 10:56:25 AM »

Teehee.. Nails bringing the LOLz.

Ok, if the Throwbot were to throw plastic at my breakpoint for a couple games, then yeah, I'm going to have to move. But I don't bowl league. But neither does the Throwbot.

For reference, the late great Earl Anthony has been known to pull out a dull urethane ball and fire it up the five board during practice and torch the lane before a televised finals match. But let's be real... there ain't no Earl Anthonys on here. Or Throwbots, for that matter.

Yes, bowlers cause oil movement and transition. That isn't be anything new. Some bowlers may cause more for your line than others but that isn't new either.

Just my opinion.

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Tony
My Bowling Classifieds
My Bowling Journal | My Ball Registry & Grip Specs

Dan Belcher · « **Reply #11 on:** June 11, 2007, 12:05:42 PM »

I think there's a misunderstanding between two sides of the discussion here.

People who spray from one side of the lane to the other WILL adversely change your shot to a degree. It will become a bit more inconsistent as you get crossing random lines of oil and dry. However, it's NOT going to affect just one tiny little area. We're talking about just your usual amounts of breakdown and carrydown being in odd locations making for undesirable ball reaction.

On the other hand, someone can't just intentionally carry down ridiculous amounts of oil exactly at your breakpoint in 3 games in a league. That can't happen.

« **Reply #12 on:** June 11, 2007, 01:37:44 PM »

Get a copy of BTM for June 2007. Read it cover to cover (don't just look at the pictures) and you will find at least 5 or 6 different people from Susie Minshew and Rolf Gauger, to some of the better amateur bowlers in the country talking about how fast certain balls and bowlers can change your shot.

Obviously you don't believe, me so here's approximately 60 years experience in just the first two people that I mentioned, that will disagree with you also.

As always, good luck.

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notclay

Nails · « **Reply #13 on:** June 11, 2007, 09:35:02 PM »

Comprehension level seems low around here as usual. I never said that lanes don't change based on who's playing on them and how they're doing it. Oil changes with every shot, good or bad. I only said that if you have it made up in your mind that someone crossing over your area destroys your line that you're already defeated.

I just received my copy and only had a chance to take a quick read of Susie Minshew's and Rolf Gauger's article. All they really said is to pay attention to what's going on around you in case you need to move to a new part of the lane. Knowing the tendencies of who's playing the lane how/where, and knowing for SURE how YOUR ball will react if you hit all or part of their line are two completely different things. I didn't read it as thoroughly as I'd like, but I didn't see them say anything to the effect of "two games with a dull ball hooking the lane will change your break point 5 boards". Of course if you have multiple people playing the same line - not spraying it all over the place as Deez_Nuts and MegaMav have indicated - the lane will change more quickly. Again, that's not the same as one person trying to destroy another's line in as little as one game.
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Telling it like it is.

J_L_B · « **Reply #14 on:** June 11, 2007, 09:56:20 PM »

I bowled a Regional a few months ago on Regional Pattern #2 which is pretty close to Cheetah. I was fortunate enough to get past Robert Smith in the Round of 16 only to face a perennial giant in the form of Wayne Garber. Wayne's not known across the world, but in our Region he is among the best players on Regional pattern #2. Wayne plays the shot from an extreme outside angle almost pointing the ball at the pocket. He was using a pretty dull Elite ball, either a Blue Alien or Shark.

I knew my only hope of beating Wayne was to (1)try to affect his chances of carrying and (2) make this happen during the 10 minutes of practice prior to the Round of 8.

Here's the link to the Regional results.....

http://www.pba.com/regional/regionstory.asp?ID=1396

Minus the first game in which Wayne smoked me, his reaction was flat 10 or 4 pin. It took 10 minutes of practice and 1 game but I was able to affect his carry.

How did I accomplish this?

I threw my Blue Dot at the 3 pin for the first 7 minutes of practice and then lined myself up to the pocket. I didn't know if it would work and believe me after having 300 bowled at me the first game I was sure that it hadn't.

Why did it work?

This apparently pushed enough oil in front of the pocket that Wayne's carry went away (after the 1st game) and I was able to still get an angle to the pocket because of my slower ball speed and different tilt (affectively going "around" the oil).

This is an example that lanes can be affected in just one game and even at times in 10 minutes of practice, if there is a specific goal in mind.

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Jon Brandon
2003 PBA West Region Rookie of the Year
"You don't score, until you score......"

Edited on 6/11/2007 9:54 PM

Edited on 6/11/2007 9:56 PM

Author Topic: bowlers that mess your game up (Read 12074 times)

Deez_Nutts24

bowlers that mess your game up

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Nails

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Nails

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mainzer

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bamaster

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MegaMav

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Nails

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bamaster

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Dan Belcher

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Nails

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J_L_B

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