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Author Topic: How do I find the right coach?  (Read 1219 times)

akt22

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How do I find the right coach?
« on: June 29, 2009, 05:42:58 PM »
After the lesson I had today, I'm kinda worried that my coach is teaching me the wrong things. The way he has me learning how to increase my ball speed and to throw a hook not only goes against what many people say in this site, it goes against what people like Joe slowsky and Ron Clifton say.

For increasing my ball speed he has me hold my hand back with the ball and basically to let it rip.  I asked him about a free swing and he said that holding your hand back will untense the muscles in your shoulder.  He also said to use the muscles in the upper arm to throw the ball at the pins.

For throwing a hook, he has me suitcasing the ball and not teaching me the cup/uncup method like many have said in this site and online.

All this has cost me to feel really uncomfortable.  He assures me that's the case, but it goes against everything what i've researched here and what the pros do on youtube.  So should I continue with him or look for a new coach?

I'm thinking of changing but I don't know who to pick in bowl.com.  I know only their certification, but I don't know which one would teach me the game the way Ron Clifton of Joe Slowsky teaches their students.  All the ones I have been to from bowl.com are old fashioned, and as a result I keep changing.  

So please help me find the right coach, I live in IL right around Skokie, so I was hoping you can introduce me to someone or point me in the right direction.

 

Jay

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Re: How do I find the right coach?
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2009, 02:16:09 AM »
Unfortunately, I don't think there's any real way to know who's good and who's not.  The best way I can think of is to ask around.  Maybe you might even find someone that's not listed who could be of more help.  Depending on your level, Bronze or Silver level coaches are what you want to look at.  I don't fully understand some of what that particular coach is saying and teaching, but it doesn't seem right to me.  Suitcasing the ball could be a way of eliminating the release from the list of things to work on for the time being, that way you can focus on other things without sacrificing ball reaction all together.  The ball speed thing I don't agree with at all.

jorr19

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Re: How do I find the right coach?
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2009, 02:24:01 AM »
subscribe to bowling this month and get yourself a good video camera. keep looking for a qualified coach. the modern game is different and their are a lot of coaches that have not evolved. good luck!
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Carry is not luck, it's physics.
In my bag... Rogue Cell, Cell Pearl, Widow Venom, Rapid Fire Pearl, Raw Hammer Psycho, Avalanche Slide, Rattler and Storm Paradigm.

jorr19

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Re: How do I find the right coach?
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2009, 02:26:10 AM »
strike, i know a silver coach who draws all the wrong conclusions from what he learned and is a poor coach. i also know someone who has no credentials at all who is a great coach. i wish it were as easy as knowing who has attained silver status.
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Carry is not luck, it's physics.
In my bag... Rogue Cell, Cell Pearl, Widow Venom, Rapid Fire Pearl, Raw Hammer Psycho, Avalanche Slide, Rattler and Storm Paradigm.

frontiers2

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Re: How do I find the right coach?
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2009, 02:32:54 AM »
hey there.. its normal to feel what you're going through.  but all coaches are different in what they see and what they teach.  there are no 2 bowlers alike, as there are no 2 teachers alike.  obviously he saw something in your mechanics, and there is truth to what he is saying bout throwing from your upper arm.  he's trying to get you to use the larger muscles in your arm, hence, depending less on your forearm muscles.  and as for cupping/uncupping, not everyone can do that (maybe for physical reasons, etc).  cupping is relavent.  look at parker bohn, walter ray, norm, chris barnes, etc.  they all have different styles and the one thing they have in common is that they have great releases.  it really depends on that type of game you want.  again, lot of it is based on what you can physically can do.  there are bowlers that just have the talent and physical makeup to do what they can do, and others have to work at it.  the things your coach has you change is going to feel different.  give him an honest try and give your muscle memory a chance to reset itself and get used to the new changes.  again every coach is different and there more than one way to bowl.  good luck in your lessons.

andy
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akt22

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Re: How do I find the right coach?
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2009, 03:00:52 AM »
Thanks you guys but the reason I ask is because lessons are like 80 an hr and I don't want to be engraving bad habits.  My swing feels like i'm forcing it throughout as a result.  It just feels like i'm muscling it all the way.  Also as a result the ball spins akwardly from the release he thought me. Everything just feels like i'm doing things not by the book.  It states that everything should be effortless and after today's lesson, it feels I'm doing alot more.

srw69

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Re: How do I find the right coach?
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2009, 08:20:56 AM »
AKT, Not sure if this is what you are looking for, but there is a bowling clinic happening in your neck of the woods (sort of).

USBC gold coaches Fred Borden and Ron Hatfield are conducting a 2 day clinic at Orland Bowl in Orland Park, Illinois. I think the fee for the 2 day class is around $150 (not sure though).

I have a flyer if you are interested.

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Re: How do I find the right coach?
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2009, 08:35:46 AM »
Find an elite level bowler in your area and ask them who they have watch them when they struggle. Most everyone who is REALLY good will have a trusted advisor (or coach) from time to time.

Hooking the ball isn't the only answer, but learning to create some hook is helpful. Randy Petersen explains ball reaction very well when he says "when the ball encounters friction it will travel in the direction of it's rotation."
Memorize that!

If the ball isn't hooking it, 1) hasn't found adequate friction, or, 2) doesn't have proper rotation. Learn to watch your ball as it travels down the lane so you can see where it finds friction, etc.

Rant on: Learning to read ball reaction will be crucial when the normal house shot of "stand here and aim there" isn't working you'll know what to try next. Too many bowlers start blaiming the lanes for their bad scores because they can ALWAYS stand here, aim there and find the pocket. Rant off!


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Smash49

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Re: How do I find the right coach?
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2009, 01:27:52 PM »
This is an interesting topic.  Currently USBC is reviewing the coaching system.  There are a large amount of coaches that are not keeping up and being active.  Coaching requires continual education and upgrading.  Many coaches get the label and that's all they do.  USBC is making changes.  $80 an hour is a lot of money.  In Dallas I charged $50 and Susie Minshew was charging $75.  I'm a Silver with Ritger level 2.  Susie is a Gold.  Rates may have gone up since I left Dallas.  Ask your coach for his coaching resume.  That should tell you what his qualifications are, who he's taught and his level of success.  I know Ron Hatfield and have been coached by him in the past.  He is excellent to work with and communicates well.  Fred Borden is a coaching legend.  The modern game is changing a lot of the ways coaches taught for the last 50 years.  I have met Joe Slowinski and have recently started to read his articles in BTM.  I find Joe a little intense and E=mc2 but Joe is great at what he does.

On a side note:  At the summit in Vegas they were showing a guy on screen that claimed to be a PBA Gold Level Coach.  PBA Gold Level????   They were all wondering too....

Smash49
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Graaille

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Re: How do I find the right coach?
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2009, 02:26:20 PM »
Well one option which hopefully would be available to you is to come to The Gathering July 24-26 at Creekside Lanes, there are a couple of threads about it.  You can discuss everything you want to w/Ron C, since he's hosting it.

I can also say that the money invested in the 2 day clinic w/Borden and Hatfield would be money well spent.  I missed their session in my area, and I'm still grumbling about it.
The Gathering 2014 is near.  July 25-27 in Winston Salem, NC @ Creekside lanes.

Crash7189

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Re: How do I find the right coach?
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2009, 08:24:24 AM »
I have done the Fred Borden Clinic. Its was the best thing for my bowling I ever did. Instead of buying a new ball every year invest in this class. Fred only changed 3 minor things with me. No wholesale changes My ave went up 16 pins to 222. I now have more confidence in my bowling ability. I will be at the Clinic at Orland Bowl this year would not miss it. It will be July 18th & 19th. Both Fred and Ron are great to work with. If you have any question on the class Call John Hudson at  Orland Bowl 708-415-3951 It is worth every penny
You said this guy charges $80 an hour. this class is 16 hours over 2 days for $250 do the math. less then $16 an hour for one of the greatest Coach's ever.
. I also tried a coach way up north in the Chicago area he charged $80 . after the first time I work with him I had a list of 15 things I needed to change. Fred and Ron try to work with in your game & talent. Hope to see you there.