BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: JOE FALCO on August 25, 2013, 07:20:35 PM
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Anyone like to guess on what the Bowlmor/Amf plan will have on the price of bowling balls? If the new strategy works I don't see many league bowlers .. if that is correct won't that hurt bowling ball sales? I can't see bowlers as we did before .. the industry was colasping .. if this all works it will be the final nail in the coffin!
Am I reading into it or am I out in left field?
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To me, that sounds like a possibility that could happen Joe.
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Aren't some of the larger areas of sanctioned bowlers outside of the AMF corporate umbrella anyhow? The Detroit Metro association is huge and only has one AMF center...
The effect might not run as deeply as you think.
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Anyone like to guess on what the Bowlmor/Amf plan will have on the price of bowling balls? If the new strategy works I don't see many league bowlers .. if that is correct won't that hurt bowling ball sales? I can't see bowlers as we did before .. the industry was colasping .. if this all works it will be the final nail in the coffin!
Am I reading into it or am I out in left field?
Joe,
I suspect the contract between 900Global to design, market and sell AMF300 bowling balls is fixed, if that's what you mean. I would think that Bowlmor can't change it until the current contract expires, whenever that is.
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If less people bowl in leagues due to AMF's new changes then yes, I can see it hurting ball sales.
As I mentioned before, I know a few teams not returning this season.
Idk how it works in bigger cities with more bowling centers, but here you can count non AMF centers on one hand, and 3 of them don't have reliable pro shops.
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Anyone like to guess on what the Bowlmor/Amf plan will have on the price of bowling balls? If the new strategy works I don't see many league bowlers .. if that is correct won't that hurt bowling ball sales? I can't see bowlers as we did before .. the industry was colasping .. if this all works it will be the final nail in the coffin!
Am I reading into it or am I out in left field?
Joe,
I suspect the contract between 900Global to design, market and sell AMF300 bowling balls is fixed, if that's what you mean. I would think that Bowlmor can't change it until the current contract expires, whenever that is.
Guess I wasn't too clear .. what I was trying to say is the fact that Bowlmor is shying away from leagues .. do you think this will slow down the bowling ball sales .. hurt Pro shops and perhaps bring the price of balls down? Less league bowlers can't HELP ball sales! Hope that's a little clearer!
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You say less league bowlers, but I would assume the number won't be reduced to much. Big picture, AMF/BolwMor centers may have fewer league bowlers so I would agree those pro shops associated with them may have difficulty in selling equipment. But the league bowlers will move to other centers and either still use "there guy" irregardless where they are or use the new guy at the new center. Either way, there will still be sales.
A bigger concern I can see are the new hours for AMF/BowlMor centers. If you have a higher volume shop, how do you accommodate all your customers if you lose your daytime hours? Our AMF/BowlMor center isn't opening till 4 pm.
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A bigger concern I can see are the new hours for AMF/BowlMor centers. If you have a higher volume shop, how do you accommodate all your customers if you lose your daytime hours? Our AMF/BowlMor center isn't opening till 4 pm.
Not only that, but you'll effectively kill every senior/daytime league, and there are a lot of seniors who not only bowl for the competition, but for the exercise and the chance to socialize. At that time in your life, socialization becomes that much more important because you start to realize that all of the friends you've had may have passed on, and you want to spend as much time with the ones you have left as possible. This business strategy kills that..
But Bowlmor may seem to only care about money, and in the end, that will kill their business.
BL.
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A bigger concern I can see are the new hours for AMF/BowlMor centers. If you have a higher volume shop, how do you accommodate all your customers if you lose your daytime hours? Our AMF/BowlMor center isn't opening till 4 pm.
Not only that, but you'll effectively kill every senior/daytime league, and there are a lot of seniors who not only bowl for the competition, but for the exercise and the chance to socialize. At that time in your life, socialization becomes that much more important because you start to realize that all of the friends you've had may have passed on, and you want to spend as much time with the ones you have left as possible. This business strategy kills that..
But Bowlmor may seem to only care about money, and in the end, that will kill their business.
BL.
The end is near for Bowlmor/AMF in its infancy here in Eastern Long Island. The very idea of eliminating youth and senior leagues just diminishes the social/athletic structure of this sport. As stated in another forum, they don't have a clue. 34th Ave in Woodside, NY and the many centers in Nassau/Suffolk county have been blindsided by the lack of real bowling knowledge by the Bowlmor company. Our sport will survive, but we've taking a standing 8 count this 2013-14 season
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If the demand is there for the leagues, someone will step in and fill it. Even if it means new centers. There are plenty of people willing to take a chance to make a dollar.
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If the demand is there for the leagues, someone will step in and fill it. Even if it means new centers. There are plenty of people willing to take a chance to make a dollar.
This leads me to the next question.. for a center to want to break away from AMF/Bowlmor, someone would essentially have to buy the center, right? They just couldn't leave the firm, right?
BL.
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That's a good question actually. No idea.
In our area, AMF closed a few houses that were actually viable. I know the person who was the manager of Woodhaven Lanes in Woodland, Ca. She said the place actually made a profit. Her and her husband now own a center in Nevada.
AMF also closed the center on Florin Rd in Sacramento(AMF-Alpine) which was said to be profitable. Someone here said it had to do with the asbestos in the building as I remember it.
I could see them not selling the Alpine house, since it would compete with Land Park, but Woodhaven isn't near any other alleys.
If the demand is there for the leagues, someone will step in and fill it. Even if it means new centers. There are plenty of people willing to take a chance to make a dollar.
This leads me to the next question.. for a center to want to break away from AMF/Bowlmor, someone would essentially have to buy the center, right? They just couldn't leave the firm, right?
BL.
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That's a good question actually. No idea.
In our area, AMF closed a few houses that were actually viable. I know the person who was the manager of Woodhaven Lanes in Woodland, Ca. She said the place actually made a profit. Her and her husband now own a center in Nevada.
AMF also closed the center on Florin Rd in Sacramento(AMF-Alpine) which was said to be profitable. Someone here said it had to do with the asbestos in the building as I remember it.
I could see them not selling the Alpine house, since it would compete with Land Park, but Woodhaven isn't near any other alleys.
Know both Woodhaven and Alpine Valley very well, as I'm in the Sacramento area as well. Alpine Valley couldn't be helped, and yes, it was very profitable. Saved a drive for a lot of people, plus Wayne Webb ran the pro shop there. Same pretty much was for Woodhaven (don't know who ran it, though). I don't believe either was the cause of Bowlmor.
Same went for Crestview Lanes. That place only exists as the lanes at Fireside. Hulsenberg and Cook bought the actual lanes from there when it closed. So there went 3 AMF houses. So that leaves 3 left in the area, and to be honest, I don't know if Land Park is going to survive. Mardi Gras will because of it being midtown.. Rocklin, I don't know..
Another question.. How much does Bowlmor and their strategy impact Qubica/AMF? Does that mean that they'll take a dive as well?
BL.
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I can't imagine a way for an existing AMF center to "break away" from the BowlMor umbrella. These centers are owned by BowlMor/AMF now. They aren't franchises owned by franchisees.
I personally think having over 270 centers will be too much. Some centers just will not support themselves. I get the impression BowlMor will want each center to be successful on its own and not have to rob Peter to pay Paul. What is the magic number of centers, who knows. But there really isn't any reason to sell an existing center to a potential competitor. The salvage value may not be much, but in today's market, neither are bowling centers.
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I can't imagine a way for an existing AMF center to "break away" from the BowlMor umbrella. These centers are owned by BowlMor/AMF now. They aren't franchises owned by franchisees.
That's what I thought.. that sucks.
I personally think having over 270 centers will be too much. Some centers just will not support themselves. I get the impression BowlMor will want each center to be successful on its own and not have to rob Peter to pay Paul. What is the magic number of centers, who knows. But there really isn't any reason to sell an existing center to a potential competitor. The salvage value may not be much, but in today's market, neither are bowling centers.
Depends on what they deem as their competition. From what I've read on this site, Bowlmor is basically trying to phase out leagues, or price them out of the center, along with their pro shops. That makes them either only cater to the recreationalists, birthday parties, or rock'n'glow bowl.
That is a completely different market to one of people who want to bowl leagues, host tournaments, and other events that don't always require a strobe light, disco ball, black light, and the latest Techno and Top 40 blasting throughout the place.
I wonder if they even gave their centers the option to break away before the merger was finalized, and if they did, how many of them did indeed break away.
BL.
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Some how I see this so much different then a lot of others .. Bowlmore strategy is too take the emphasis off leagues ..league/tournament bowlers invest in new bowling balls. AMF owned a great deal of the working Centers .. true many league bowlers will go to other Centers in their area that are not controlled by Bowlmor .. but I'll bet there will be a lot of league bowlers that will not ..we're losing a lot normally this will help to bury bowling (and ball sales) a lot faster!
I bowl in an AMF house and I'm not sure what lineage figures will be .. no meeting yet! With a cut down on PRICE BREAKS for practice and putting emphasise on non -league activities I believe league bowling will take a big hit in 2014! Also believe that tournaments will fall off .. all of this HAS TO adversely effect bowling ball sales!
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This AMF Bowlmor thing reminds me of Microsoft developing OS for home users and corporate America is the main stream users... They forgot who really put bowling on the map - Leagues..
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Maybe I don't see as others do. I don't think Bowlmor getting rid of some daytime leagues and some weekend leagues as a "nail in the coffin" for bowling ball sales. Will every displaced bowler go to another bowling alley? Probably not.
Perhaps the new owner is just giving lip service:
In an interview after the merger, Shannon said that Bowlmor was the “only bidder willing to pay†to help AMF out of bankruptcy. It was the second time in 10 years that AMF had been in bankruptcy.
“I didn’t buy AMF to get in bankruptcy a third time, but to save it,†Shannon had said in the July 9 interview.
In that interview, Shannon also declared that league bowling under the new company was “very safe.â€
“We plan to increase the league bowling business, not shrink it,†Shannon had said.
I may not agree with what is happening with the AMF centers. I currently bowl in an AMF center. But there is a reason AMF has filed for bankruptcy twice in the last ten years. One possible reason is there simply are too many bowling centers. If this endeavor makes money for Shannon, then more power to him.
Edit: The bowling community has been wanting a new direction. The current state of affairs is not making bowling popular with a large percentage of the public. Yet any real change is scoffed at because it doesn't fit into some 50 year old model of what everyone remembers from way back when.
Do I like the initial perception of what is happening. Not really. But at the same time, who has done anything different to bowling in the last 30 years? No one has; and the game has suffered because of it.
If Shannon is true to his word and wants to increase league bowling, then make your displeasures known. But at the same time, be vocal on things that are going well also. Don't be a Debbie Downer all the time. An active CEO will want to know how the new implemented operations are working for their customers.
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“We plan to increase the league bowling business, not shrink it,†Shannon had said.
Sounds like Obama during his campaign .. nothing I've HEARD since the take over leads me to conclude this is/will happen!
I guess TIME WILL TELL but in my opinion this is that final nail I talked about.
Just one more thought .. I believe that the Bowlmor owner HAS a plan to make money with the purchase of AMF centers however that doesn't indicate his plan is to help league or the Pro bowler .. he's out to make money for himself .. nothing wrong with that .. but I DO NOT see his plan to help the bowling industry. I wonder if the actual allies are going to look like a year after he's been in operation? Do you think they will be maintained? Would the PBA make a tour stop at an AMF center one year after Bowlmor has been in operation? Like I said TIME WILL TELL but I'm not very optimistic!
Thanks again for all the thoughts .. let's see how it goes!
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Maybe I don't see as others do. I don't think Bowlmor getting rid of some daytime leagues and some weekend leagues as a "nail in the coffin" for bowling ball sales. Will every displaced bowler go to another bowling alley? Probably not.
Perhaps the new owner is just giving lip service:
In an interview after the merger, Shannon said that Bowlmor was the “only bidder willing to pay†to help AMF out of bankruptcy. It was the second time in 10 years that AMF had been in bankruptcy.
“I didn’t buy AMF to get in bankruptcy a third time, but to save it,†Shannon had said in the July 9 interview.
In that interview, Shannon also declared that league bowling under the new company was “very safe.â€
“We plan to increase the league bowling business, not shrink it,†Shannon had said.
I may not agree with what is happening with the AMF centers. I currently bowl in an AMF center. But there is a reason AMF has filed for bankruptcy twice in the last ten years. One possible reason is there simply are too many bowling centers. If this endeavor makes money for Shannon, then more power to him.
I could have sworn that in the past 15 - 20 years, AMF had gone into bankruptcy at least 3 times. I thought they were in the deep red after they put out the Night Hawk in 1993, but I can't remember..
But too many bowling centers? Again, my only references may be Omaha, Lincoln, Vegas, and Sacramento, but I've seen more of a decline in bowling centers than a surplus, and this is going back to at least 1991. Back then, Omaha had 21 centers. Now, they are down to 12 (I believe you may have to be military to bowl at the AFB, save the JTC league). Lincoln only has 3 centers (down from 8), again since 1991.
Sacramento just dropped 4 centers in the past 4 years, and possibly more prior to 2003.
The only place that had seen an increase that I am aware of, is Las Vegas. When I moved there in 1998, they had:
Boulder Bowl
Sunset Lanes (not the one at Sunset Station)
Sam's Town
Orleans
Gold Coast
Showboat
Jerry's 300
Santa Fe Station
Between 1998 and now, they've added at least 5:
Suncoast
Texas Station
Sunset Station
South Point
Red Rock Station
They lost Showboat when the casino closed, and Sunset Lanes became Wildfire Lanes. For a short time, even the Rio had a bowling center in it!
I really don't think that the problem is surplus of centers. If anything, that would be to the league bowler's advantage, as it would put the onus on the centers to drop prices to get those leagues into their center. Otherwise, we are paying through the nose for prime slots.
Edit: The bowling community has been wanting a new direction. The current state of affairs is not making bowling popular with a large percentage of the public. Yet any real change is scoffed at because it doesn't fit into some 50 year old model of what everyone remembers from way back when.
Do I like the initial perception of what is happening. Not really. But at the same time, who has done anything different to bowling in the last 30 years? No one has; and the game has suffered because of it.
If Shannon is true to his word and wants to increase league bowling, then make your displeasures known. But at the same time, be vocal on things that are going well also. Don't be a Debbie Downer all the time. An active CEO will want to know how the new implemented operations are working for their customers.
Totally agree here. If league bowling is 'safe', we should make our voices heard at his office, in his email, on his phone, in his voice mail, everywhere that this guy goes outside of his home or personal matters. If we're going to make sure that this comes out in the best interests of the league bowler, we have to affect that change.
BL.
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BL,
To me, there may be too many lanes now. Some areas might be able to fill more than what they have. Yet there are many that cannot. This is why there continues to be centers closing.
If we assume AMF/Bowlmor does want to increase league participation, then perhaps there will not be enough lanes. But the numbers say we will still lose bowlers until some rock bottom level. Is that level 2 million or dare I say less than 500,000? Hard to say. But if the numbers continue to dwindle, the participation will not support the number of lanes currently in operation. I cannot see open play fulfilling this loss long term.