win a ball from Bowling.com

Author Topic: Pro's using close Pin to Pap?  (Read 5526 times)

don coyote

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 570
Pro's using close Pin to Pap?
« on: May 18, 2021, 02:25:35 PM »
How come I never see the professional bowlers using close(1.5 to 2") Pin to Pap on tour? What do they know that apparently we don't?

One of the local pro shop's I frequent does not recommend urethane but close Pin to Pap instead?

 

bowling_rebel

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 120
Re: Pro's using close Pin to Pap?
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2021, 02:34:52 AM »
A short pin will round off the shape the ball makes. It's not going to turn a reactive ball into urethane. Just as maxing out the flair on a urethane won't turn it into a reactive.

Randy Pedersen things urethane is boring, whatever.

Rev rates are higher than ever. 400+ revs on a short oil flat condition. Guess the sport evolving is people playing that by lofting the gutter cap and getting the ball to 5 board. Sure, I can agree with Randy that may be more interesting TV. But it's stupid bowling and not the direction things should "evolve" if it's supposed to be a sport.

bowling_rebel

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 120
Re: Pro's using close Pin to Pap?
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2021, 02:35:42 AM »
A short pin will round off the shape the ball makes. It's not going to turn a reactive ball into urethane. Just as maxing out the flair on a urethane won't turn it into a reactive.

Randy Pedersen thinks urethane is boring, whatever.

Rev rates are higher than ever. 400+ revs on a short oil flat condition. Guess the sport evolving is people playing that by lofting the gutter cap and getting the ball to 5 board. Sure, I can agree with Randy that may be more interesting TV. But it's stupid bowling and not the direction things should "evolve" if it's supposed to be a sport.

northface28

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3263
Re: Pro's using close Pin to Pap?
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2021, 04:31:08 PM »
How come I never see the professional bowlers using close(1.5 to 2") Pin to Pap on tour? What do they know that apparently we don't?

One of the local pro shop's I frequent does not recommend urethane but close Pin to Pap instead?

Iíd find a new pro shop immediately. Pros donít use short pins because they donít hook and they hit like soggy satin, panties. They create hold with angle through the front like modern players do. Not short pin balls.
NLMB 150 Dream Team
#NoTalking
#HellaBandz

TWOHAND834

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3939
Re: Pro's using close Pin to Pap?
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2021, 08:22:36 AM »
Short pins dont hook?  In the video I shared Packy was getting plenty hook.  I get plenty hook.  But it is not for everyone similar to urethane.  Urethane is not for everyone either.  Here is another video that says otherwise.  There is plenty of hook and it hits very well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5nhjZLF6nU

Like any layout on any ball, it is more about matching up the bowler to the lane condition. Of course you probably wont drill up a bowler with a rev rate less than 250 with a 2 inch pin.  But higher rev rates on patterns less than 38 feet I absolutely recommend one ball with a short pin layout.  Back when the 300C was released, I did a 2 inch pin to PAP on it and shot 825 during a summer league.  All that kept me from 900 was 4 ten pins. 

The bottom line is that the Pros are out there to push product.  Since urethane have become "new releases", that is what they push on shorter patterns to create sales for the ball companies.  They use what they have to to make a show (like Buttruff using a plugged up U2 at US Open) and then transition to what they should be pushing when they make the show. 

Speaking of "soggy satin panties"; here is the man with the "strongest strike ball on tour" leaving the 5-7-10 and wait for it....................with urethane.  LMAO!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur9waqceMAo
Steven Vance
Former Pro Shop Operator
Former Classic Products Assistant Manager

Strider

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6651
Re: Pro's using close Pin to Pap?
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2021, 08:22:27 AM »
Got my short pin Ringer drilled (pro shop guy was on vacation for a week).  Threw it for a game after league (Billy Hardwick - 44').  The pattern was odd, it was long, but it definitely played better outside.  I struggled for a game and half inside before watching quite a lot of the better players all move out.  My best look was with a Global 900 Ordnance C4 (4000 abralon) 7 at the arrows, 3 at the break point.  I actually had to move 2 left using the Ringer.  It was super smooth but definitely hooked more than I was expecting.  I gave it to the shop shiny, but it came back with some surface.  I've given them balls to plug and re-drill before and never had that happen before.  I think I'll try something like 1000/3000 abralon for a start.

The short pin gave me the look I wanted out of urethane but never got.  Urethane looks much better for the high and low rev bowlers in my opinion.  I think a short pin ball might be better for the typical tweener.  Mine went through the pins with a lot more authority than urethane ever did for me.  Still a reactive reaction (skid, hook, roll), but a much earlier and longer roll phase.  It certainly won't be a first ball out of the bag for most conditions, but I think it will be a good option on some of the short and med/short sport patterns that I've been having trouble matching up with.

Professionals with their higher rev rate and ball speed might not normally want a short pin drilling, but they definitely hook and they definitely hit.  If you tried (and failed with) urethane trying to help control the break point, a short pin reactive might be worth looking at.

TWOHAND834

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3939
Re: Pro's using close Pin to Pap?
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2021, 11:02:22 AM »
Got my short pin Ringer drilled (pro shop guy was on vacation for a week).  Threw it for a game after league (Billy Hardwick - 44').  The pattern was odd, it was long, but it definitely played better outside.  I struggled for a game and half inside before watching quite a lot of the better players all move out.  My best look was with a Global 900 Ordnance C4 (4000 abralon) 7 at the arrows, 3 at the break point.  I actually had to move 2 left using the Ringer.  It was super smooth but definitely hooked more than I was expecting.  I gave it to the shop shiny, but it came back with some surface.  I've given them balls to plug and re-drill before and never had that happen before.  I think I'll try something like 1000/3000 abralon for a start.

The short pin gave me the look I wanted out of urethane but never got.  Urethane looks much better for the high and low rev bowlers in my opinion.  I think a short pin ball might be better for the typical tweener.  Mine went through the pins with a lot more authority than urethane ever did for me.  Still a reactive reaction (skid, hook, roll), but a much earlier and longer roll phase.  It certainly won't be a first ball out of the bag for most conditions, but I think it will be a good option on some of the short and med/short sport patterns that I've been having trouble matching up with.

Professionals with their higher rev rate and ball speed might not normally want a short pin drilling, but they definitely hook and they definitely hit.  If you tried (and failed with) urethane trying to help control the break point, a short pin reactive might be worth looking at.

Like what I heard Strider and you hit the nail on the head.  I just did my review of the Messenger and drilled it short pin (80 x 2 x 45).  For anyone that says short pin balls dont hit are not sure what they are talking about.  As with any layout, not just short pin, it isnt for everyone.  Everyone matches up with different surfaces and layouts.  But my Messenger threw headpins across the deck with authority I had not seen in a while.  At 48 years old, my ball speed is down about 2 mph since I started two handing some 25 years ago.  But the box surface and layout still allowed me to play outside 10 with breakpoint around 5 and the 6 pin was slapping the 10 pin silly and I already mentioned that I had a few nasty messengers (couple could have been double side wall had the 10 not been there and got in the way..LOL!!!!).  In my review, I also compared the Messenger to my Deep Freeze and Beast.  What I like is that I have 3 low end balls with 3 distinctly different ball motions to use on high frictions surfaces and lighter conditions.
Steven Vance
Former Pro Shop Operator
Former Classic Products Assistant Manager