BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: Helluvahobbybowler on August 22, 2017, 06:41:37 PM
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I'm looking for a nice unaggressive piece for the burn. Is Urethane a good choice for the 3rd game or late tournament block? Would it start too early? If so, what would be a good choice for the 3rd league game when everything is running? I guess I need a true dry lane ball as opposed to a skid/flip ball. Thinking about the Cherry Vibe, BTU Pearl, or Hustle SAY. Any other suggestions? I'm not looking for any super long and super angular on the back. That normally gets me in the ugly split territory in the 3rd game. Rant over. Any suggestions would be appreciated.
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For me, urethane has only been a good option on short patterns 35ft or less. If you have a higher rev rate urethane could be a good option. On broken down house shots reactive still seems to be the best bet.
The Hustle SAY is pretty angular and not a true dry lane ball. I haven't seen enough of the new Cherry Vibe. I'd recommend the Rhino, Alley Cat, or Motiv Freestyle.
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Blue Hammer or Brunswick Rhino.
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There is no such thing as too much burn for a Faball Pink Hammer. The red and blue pearl hammers either on modern conditions. Just polished up my Faball black hammer but haven't had a chance to throw it on messed up lanes yet but imagine it would be fine also.
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First, depends how bad a burn and I think this has more to do with the center, how many games and who else is bowling more than the pattern.
Last Thanksgiving did a 10 game marathon tournament on a heavy 46 foot pattern. The pattern started to break down game 3 and with all gone by game 6. But I've also bowled some 6 and 8 game tournaments where sure, there was break down, but didn't make me feel I practicing on lanes not oiled in a week.
The problem with solid urethane for the extreme burn is it rolls early. I have a storm supernatural and it's totally different than the solid urethanes I've tried. I have a rev rate in 200's so typically urethane either hooks way to little for me, or rolls up too early on burn, except supernatural. That's a great ball.
I was thinking of trying an experiment - get a tropical storm and drill with about 1 1/2 inch pin to pap? But really for some of these tournaments it get so bad better off just using plastic.
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Yeah pearl urethane is ideal for the burn (or even plastic as you mention or even one of those super hard rubber Manhattan balls) but that new Blue Hammer remake almost rolls more like a super super weak pearl reactive (minus much backend) than a urethane.
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Thank you. With that being said, what do you think? BTU Pearl or Purple Hammer?
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Urethane is only ideal for the burn if you want to grind. If your average is high, good luck hitting it using urethane on the burn. Urethane is a good option for getting to the hole if the lanes are tough, but you ARE giving up carry for that control.
The important question that no one has bothered to ask: what are you balling down from? There's a big difference between a Sure Lock hooking too much and a Tropical Breeze hooking too much.
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Will second urethane doesn't carry quite as well unless you have lots of hand but as you say doesn't sound like you need to throw 230+ most of the time with it. Haven't thrown the Fanatic BTU balls but they probably do carry a bit better. Not sure if they would be too much ball though. Will be able to give you a review on the Faball Blue Hammer when I get my punched up later in the week. The new blue hammer remake is cheap and pretty good for burn but its carry imo is closer to urethane than reactive (purple hammer remake will even outhit it imo). Also the Rhino may very well give you the best of both worlds with good carry but also super long and relatively mild. Haven't thrown the new version (going to "borrow" an old Teal one parents have in garage some day soon though).
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Where do you want to play the lanes on the burn. Can't make a ball recommendation without knowing what you are trying to do.
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Nothing wrong with a trusty Tropical Storm.
Urethane isn't for dry lanes where the heads and mids are burnt. Its for hot backends where you have some head oil and want the ball to layoff.
You can throw oil balls on the burn .... I'll use a Marvel-S, take my hand out of it, and throw gassers up 7 .....
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Heads are burned? No urethane. Inside of 4th arrow? No urethane. Bunch of carrydown? No urethane.
Lots of wet dry and flying backends? Yes urethane. Trying to stay close to the bump? Yes urethane. Trying to grind out a score while everyone else is going thru the beak with resin? Yes urethane.
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Heads are burned? No urethane. Inside of 4th arrow? No urethane. Bunch of carrydown? No urethane.
Lots of wet dry and flying backends? Yes urethane. Trying to stay close to the bump? Yes urethane. Trying to grind out a score while everyone else is going thru the beak with resin? Yes urethane.
^ THIS ^
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Well said Doom.
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For me and not the OP that posted this,
it's for flying back ends. When I reach my max at the 18 board shooting to about 10.
The oil line is fried between 10 and 16. Maybe spotty or I get too fast at 18.
When drinking, I drift a little more right so 18 is my limit.
With the Octane Carbon, I keep leaving a pin, like the 9 or 10 for a 180 best 1/2 way through. I did take the surface up to 2K last weekend in case I try it again. I just need to be a little better than the competition. Had a 162 G3 last week, finally missed a 10 pin after so many of them.
I'm not a strict Motiv Fan and open to others, but almost pulled the trigger on a Tank Rampage minutes ago. Friends say a Hot Cell, but not sure if I want to get a giant core rolling plus production was pushed back. I'm use to that gear core, revs up quick for me and gives a predictable path.
With the significant mass bias of the Hot Cell it may actually back end harder than you want though. That ball is going to be as strong as urethane comes and might be too much ball. Honestly it seems like its target market is two handers on fresh shot or maybe even a bit more oil.
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For me and not the OP that posted this,
it's for flying back ends. When I reach my max at the 18 board shooting to about 10.
The oil line is fried between 10 and 16. Maybe spotty or I get too fast at 18.
When drinking, I drift a little more right so 18 is my limit.
With the Octane Carbon, I keep leaving a pin, like the 9 or 10 for a 180 best 1/2 way through. I did take the surface up to 2K last weekend in case I try it again. I just need to be a little better than the competition. Had a 162 G3 last week, finally missed a 10 pin after so many of them.
I'm not a strict Motiv Fan and open to others, but almost pulled the trigger on a Tank Rampage minutes ago. Friends say a Hot Cell, but not sure if I want to get a giant core rolling plus production was pushed back. I'm use to that gear core, revs up quick for me and gives a predictable path.
Get further left into the oil. If 16-10 is fried, use that as a bumper. There is no set of magic balls to keep you from having to move
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If you're going to start off left, are you going to wait for the shot to come to you? Also, if they're fried, why use something like a Carbon that goes sideways?
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Can't really improve on Impending Doom's statement. Also would recommend the Tropical Storm (former Tropical Breeze).
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I get it now after a day of soaking in Impending Doom's clear thoughts on Urethane.
I could have lots of fun using a new Urethane from the start this Friday night since its a 2nd coat of oil and take advantage of the cover stock longer on flying back ends.
Thanks all for the input!. Got it now.
There we go. Use urethane to start, push some oil down the lane, then move in and use the carrydown as hold for your resin equipment. Or just stay with urethane all night.
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With my Crow I can start the night on house shot and stay with it having to move very little (especially if keep oil off the ball). At least with my style what I like and dislike about urethane is there is usually no surprises. I have a very good idea of how many pins I am going to get by the time the ball hits the arrows. I tend to be more consistent with urethane but getting much over 200 is a real struggle with my style. You get even a five bagger with urethane man you are sniping it (at least for me with my moderate revs). I don't luck into those with urethane but I get into a zone with a perfectly matched up reactive and its like throwing into the ocean.
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I hate shooting at weak 10's and buckets so I'd recommend a low-mid end reactive with a non flippy layout and remove the polish. A BTU Pearl or Rhino should do the trick so that you can keep chasing the oil left, yet maintain enough hook and angle to carry the corners.
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I hate shooting at weak 10's and buckets so I'd recommend a low-mid end reactive with a non flippy layout and remove the polish. A BTU Pearl or Rhino should do the trick so that you can keep chasing the oil left, yet maintain enough hook and angle to carry the corners.
Can second this. If you are not more comfortable with your spare ball than your first ball might want to avoid urethane assuming not a cranker. 8/ and 9/ for days sometimes. On some conditions this is great but can suck busting ass to throw a 200 when the scoring pace is 230+.
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If the scoring pace is 230+ and you're using urethane, you've brought a pencil to a gun fight.
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I think the choice of equipment depends on the bowler's style. I am a low-rev, high speed player and although I have one urethane ball, it never gets any use. I couldn't use urethane If I were bowling in a sandbox.
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To answer the OP,
This is more of a layout, surface, plan of attack issue than just ball itself. Urethane is a hot item however it has its place and it isn't for every dry condition. No Urethane absorbs oil like Resins do, so oil sits on the cover from shot to shot to shot. As you throw it, the read of the ball gets longer. That's not good for Urethane as theyre designed to read the lane early. In a sense, youre taking the back of the lane out of play. The longer that reaction takes the less your ball will have. SO again Urethane has its place, especially if you have an enormous amount of hand or surface on it. However for those of use with less rev rate, I recommend carrying a couple or few of them and keeping the surface fresh if that's the game plan. They can strike a ton but IMO very high maintenance.
I often times recommend a layout change, something to emulate closely the Urethane shape with the oil absorption of the resins. For me my layout is 85x2.5"x45 with either a double thumb hole(if I want it to really stand up early and give up) or a hole on the midline if I want the shape to be more gradual. If I want less flare, I drop the pin to PAP to 1" to create a weaker reaction, same weight hole situation applies. Then I mess with the surface to fine tune. This is a way to throw bigger balls on dryer stuff without sacrificing carry. I have a few balls that have this layout that I love when friction is high or sport patterns where the they are tougher and tighter ratios.
These are only options.
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To answer the OP,
This is more of a layout, surface, plan of attack issue than just ball itself. Urethane is a hot item however it has its place and it isn't for every dry condition. No Urethane absorbs oil like Resins do, so oil sits on the cover from shot to shot to shot. As you throw it, the read of the ball gets longer. That's not good for Urethane as theyre designed to read the lane early. In a sense, youre taking the back of the lane out of play. The longer that reaction takes the less your ball will have. SO again Urethane has its place, especially if you have an enormous amount of hand or surface on it. However for those of use with less rev rate, I recommend carrying a couple or few of them and keeping the surface fresh if that's the game plan. They can strike a ton but IMO very high maintenance.
I often times recommend a layout change, something to emulate closely the Urethane shape with the oil absorption of the resins. For me my layout is 85x2.5"x45 with either a double thumb hole(if I want it to really stand up early and give up) or a hole on the midline if I want the shape to be more gradual. If I want less flare, I drop the pin to PAP to 1" to create a weaker reaction, same weight hole situation applies. Then I mess with the surface to fine tune. This is a way to throw bigger balls on dryer stuff without sacrificing carry. I have a few balls that have this layout that I love when friction is high or sport patterns where the they are tougher and tighter ratios.
These are only options.
I've utilized this several times, but for me, it is hard for me to get right. For ever ball that it worked on ( Money, Predator, TNT), there were balls it didn't work on ( Blue Heat, Grip-It) and I even used similar core shape as the ones that worked! My Booyah is a much better urethane than my Hype was (either of them) and right now, only ball I could see laying the core down like that on would be a Boost with some surface.
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I have carried urethane for over 5 years. I could honestly brag about places where it has made me money, but just as many times it has boxed me in on the transition, forcing a ball change and a big move. I will try urethane on fresh wet dry house shots, and short flat patterns.
Bottom line a strong pearl from deep is much better option for this low rev senior.
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I hear ya which is why when I have to score its the same for me with hybrids and pearls for most part. Urethane is strictly a passion and because not much feels better than stringing some strikes with a Faball in practice. Feels great to throw a perfect shot and watch it largely ignore the pattern and curve gently butt deep into pins.
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Can't count the number of times I have come out of the gate with a 250 game only to lose my look with no place to go after the first game using urethane
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You might get away with urethane for a 3 game set in a house shot, and have better carry than with a resin that you have to play out angle through the heads. However on flatter patterns carry down sets up quickly and is a urethane killer.
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Urethane seems to do ok on some of those ultra hard USBC Open patterns. Granted I think a lot of the people I heard did well with urethane also had some serious hand.
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Urethane seems to do ok on some of those ultra hard USBC Open patterns. Granted I think a lot of the people I heard did well with urethane also had some serious hand.
Yes and no. In my sport shot league this past week, we bowled on the 2012 Open Championships pattern and a kid going straight up 7 shot 300 in game 1. His look went away in game 2 and he shot 160. He balled up, moved in to 4th arrow, and was back at 200. Urethane can work for some...but like avabob said, it can box you in if you stay with it. You have to know its limitations and when to put it away.
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That has been my experience as well. I've used urethane and scored very well when others were struggling to control their reactive pieces. However, I've never used it for 3 games on those same conditions. That's why I posted the question. I needed help. Thankfully, I don't see it a lot but I see it in the same tournament that I participate in 2-3 times per year. I didn't know if the answer was another solid urethane, a pearl urethane or just a really weak reactive.
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For most people, urethane isn't a 3 game option. Myself, I can see using it game 2 when transition murders me, but then I need to ball up and move in.
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They just need to fix the oil absorption issue so that oil doesn't sit on top of the cover and smear when you wipe it. Idk, if that's chemically possible. But it definitely can be a great option in the bag.
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Lot to be said for a super weak reactive like the new Blue Hammer compared to some of the stronger urethane that will actually grab too hard too early sometimes. Hear good things about the Rhino as well. I will readily admit urethane is very much condition specific for a good majority of bowlers.
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They just need to fix the oil absorption issue so that oil doesn't sit on top of the cover and smear when you wipe it. Idk, if that's chemically possible. But it definitely can be a great option in the bag.
Oil sits on top of urethane and always has. It's kind of its thing. I find my Genesis shammy keeps em pretty clean if make sure and wipe often. There is always the option of busting out your any time cleaner between games too.
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They just need to fix the oil absorption issue so that oil doesn't sit on top of the cover and smear when you wipe it. Idk, if that's chemically possible.
Yes it's possible in fact they already did it, It's called reactive resin.
Which is urethane that has additives that allow the cover to absorb the oil off the the surface of the ball.
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For me, I've made it simple. One layout one three balls for whatever "burn" I see. Not all burnt up lanes are equal. What ever I see on the lanes, ball motion, and pins will tell me, or I make a guess, to which of the three balls to use.
I have these: Blue hammer, tropical breeze, and Lane #1 XXXL.
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They just need to fix the oil absorption issue so that oil doesn't sit on top of the cover and smear when you wipe it. Idk, if that's chemically possible. But it definitely can be a great option in the bag.
Oil sits on top of urethane and always has. It's kind of its thing. I find my Genesis shammy keeps em pretty clean if make sure and wipe often. There is always the option of busting out your any time cleaner between games too.
Ive done that in the past and still had the same issue. Not quite as bad but the cover is still slick. If I could figure out Jesper's secret, outside of just ridiculous amounts of hand lol.....
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They just need to fix the oil absorption issue so that oil doesn't sit on top of the cover and smear when you wipe it. Idk, if that's chemically possible.
Yes it's possible in fact they already did it, It's called reactive resin.
Which is urethane that has additives that allow the cover to absorb the oil off the the surface of the ball.
I meant in the sense of keeping the same hardness but opening the pores instead of additives
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For me, I've made it simple. One layout one three balls for whatever "burn" I see. Not all burnt up lanes are equal. What ever I see on the lanes, ball motion, and pins will tell me, or I make a guess, to which of the three balls to use.
I have these: Blue hammer, tropical breeze, and Lane #1 XXXL.
Lane #1 also had The Bullet which looked like a great bone dry ball. Saw that on ebay awhile back. About as mild as resin gets.
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The Lane 1 Dart would be a good choice. I found one used and for me it a great dry lane ball.
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What about those plastic / polyester balls with the huge cores.
I think Hammer had one with the gas mask core. I remember one guy at Westminster lanes rolling on dry and scoring 700+ with it.
I think it was a freebie with purchase a couple of years ago.
A big diamond core is in the Lane #1 XXXL recommended earlier. Yeah Hammer has one and so do most the manufacturers I believe (Widow spare the new version, old one was the Taboo spare and now that ball is pricey 2nd hand). I only have a 14lb viz-a-ball with a pancake core which is pretty useless as a first ball in almost all circumstances so have retired that to the garage. Have way too much urethane in arsenal to be carrying a plastic spare ball around but I can see how plastic can be useful for sure.
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They just need to fix the oil absorption issue so that oil doesn't sit on top of the cover and smear when you wipe it. Idk, if that's chemically possible.
Yes it's possible in fact they already did it, It's called reactive resin.
Which is urethane that has additives that allow the cover to absorb the oil off the the surface of the ball.
I meant in the sense of keeping the same hardness but opening the pores instead of additives
The additives are part of the process use to create the pores that allow the oil to be absorbed.
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late to this article...
for years my go to was roto shout and when necessary with some speed on it lol
then it cracked...
now im rocking a loco solid! even better, even weaker! i plan on buying storms next symmetrical urethane though for emergencies haha.
i would imagine the hustle ink is the one to get interms of reactives!