Post by: 302efi on June 24, 2008, 11:57:30 PM
To watch these guys bowl, theres no way they can even tell which board they hit, let alone what a little pin change will do....LOL !
Anyone else read these kinda post or here people talk about this and just wonder, WTF?
--------------------
quote:
I will head to my local pro shop. Right after I buy it online.
Sport Bowling is a F**king joke
Edited on 6/25/2008 7:57 AM
Post by: KDawg77 on June 25, 2008, 08:00:13 AM
I see a difference, but I do know what I'm doing.
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Post by: Phoneman on June 25, 2008, 08:11:59 AM
Post by: Robadat on June 25, 2008, 08:13:07 AM
I have met some people who know exactly what different pin placements will do, and how to use them to maximum effectiveness.
Then there are those...
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Post by: dizzyfugu on June 25, 2008, 08:16:41 AM
Remember, with pin placement you decide the reaction shape on the lane, determined by the cores instable starting position. With the relative placement of the core to the PAP (and some other factors, too), you can pretty well tune when and how much a ball will hook - and finding a proper match for your style, the lane condition and the ball's characteristics (plus its surface prep) is a tricky task.
Even though I must admit that I have to smile (internally) when I see bowlers who cannot hit any mark on the lane twice show their high end balls with pride - and the pieces have label leverage drillings on them, even flare backwards, but are the best ball under the sun, with an optimal setup JUST for the user... I gave up mentioning my, eh, doubts. Never disturb happy souls
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Post by: on June 25, 2008, 08:23:35 AM
Other than what the bowler puts on the ball (revs, speed, etc.), surface changes will almost always be more meaningful to ball reaction than any other single thing. This sometimes gets overlooked on forums where everyone wants to know everything about everything...
--------------------
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Post by: pro shop guy on June 25, 2008, 08:57:17 AM
Post by: mainzer on June 25, 2008, 10:55:17 AM
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Post by: mrbowlingnut on June 25, 2008, 12:20:48 PM
Like J Mac on his Toxic drilling thread i discovered that way high pin layout only from blem ball, it was interesting that it works so well big length and massive backend. Then again I have about no axis tilt and 60-80 degrees of rotation, so drills to delay hook are what i prefer to watch going down lane.
Post by: bowlallthetime on June 25, 2008, 12:22:32 PM
Its funny how some of the posters in this thread talk about others who can't hit the same mark twice. For example, Dizzy said the following:
"Even though I must admit that I have to smile (internally) when I see bowlers who cannot hit any mark on the lane twice show their high end balls with pride"
Dizzy's stats from his profile:
"Average(s) and personal records:
Official 2006/07 DBU average: 177,2"
With a high average of 177, you don't really have a right to talk about others not being able to hit their mark 2x in a row. You probably can't either, and thats why you're at 177.
I have no problem hitting my mark 2x in a row....3x is a little tough.
Post by: Juggernaut on June 25, 2008, 12:30:51 PM
The first really difference I noticed wasn't in the balls reaction, but in the spares I was leaving. I noticed that low pins left me more four pins and high pins left me more ten pins. This led me to find out why.
I started to study ball reactions, breakpoint shapes, entry angles and other factors. Began to know more and more about exactly what I was looking for and how to see it. this is when I got to the point that I could actually tell what i was seeing and process the information correctly.
Now, knowing what I am looking for, I can actually see the difference between high and low pin positions. For me, high pin positions are longer and more "sudden" in their reaction, while low pin positions are earlier and more gradual.
Knowing how long it took me to figure this all out, yes, I do wonder why I hear things like this all the time, especially from people here locally who I know personally haven't spent the time or effort to figure things like this out. As far as posters here on the board, the ones with real knowledge can usually be ferreted out from those without it. Wisdom can be hidden, but not ignorance.
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Post by: 302efi on June 25, 2008, 12:31:55 PM
quote:
With a high average of 177, you don't really have a right to talk about others not being able to hit their mark 2x in a row. You probably can't either, and thats why you're at 177.
This is my point. With a 177 avg, can you or do you really need to see what a pin over vs pin under drill does ??
--------------------
quote:
I will head to my local pro shop. Right after I buy it online.
Sport Bowling is a F**king joke
Post by: mrbowlingnut on June 25, 2008, 12:34:20 PM
I can split boards at the arrows and hit within 1 board downlane, I average right at 202 why??? Because my left knee is shot and i have no leverage to speak of, Literally I have no time at the line. So alot of times my ball does not read the lane correctly as Bill Hall would tell me known as false revs.
I have been about as accurate since I was in my 2nd year of bowling and 170 ish, back then I just threw the ball like Sh1t but was pretty dang accurate. 10 pins for me as my crux, the knee stress just seems increase and I find myself pulling up from pain about 80 percent of the time.
Post by: bowlallthetime on June 25, 2008, 12:34:48 PM
Post by: 302efi on June 25, 2008, 12:35:51 PM
--------------------
quote:
I will head to my local pro shop. Right after I buy it online.
Sport Bowling is a F**king joke
Post by: tenpin477 on June 25, 2008, 12:37:31 PM
Post by: 302efi on June 25, 2008, 12:39:29 PM
quote:
not on a THS
Ture...What if the 177 avg is on a THS ?
The should someone worry about pin up vs pin down ?
--------------------
quote:
I will head to my local pro shop. Right after I buy it online.
Sport Bowling is a F**king joke
Post by: mrbowlingnut on June 25, 2008, 12:47:49 PM
Nice guy like him alot but sometimes accuracy prevails and average is not always a perfect gauge of how good the bowler is or is not.
Trust me there alot of older bowlers in my boat that are actually awesome bowlers that do not score anymore, maybe it is ball speed or just age. It could be an injury that prevents them from carrying better like my case, I have bowled on Paul Renteria's team and Rick Benard subbed for David Haynes scratch team. Why because they know I give 110 percent and just grind out decent games rarely do I shot 700 plus but grind out a 600 for them about every set.
quote:
Barry but avg is the knows way we measure ability skill, no ?
--------------------quote:
I will head to my local pro shop. Right after I buy it online.
Sport Bowling is a F**king joke
Post by: laddog54 on June 25, 2008, 01:00:23 PM
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my vote for president is green nikes
Post by: REvans284 on June 25, 2008, 02:04:43 PM
They are both FMG's by Visionary and one is pin up, and the other is pin down and the CG placement is in about the same spot on both balls. As far as total board coverage, when they both have the same cover prep they both hook about the same amount of boards. The difference is the shape. The pin up ball is very much cleaner through the front part of the lane and much more angular on the backend than the pin down ball.
I currently have the pin up at 2000 grit and the pin down at 800 so they don't even really react the same right now, but even with the surface prep the same they have a very different shape. Personally, I like the pin down ball and its banana-ish shape. For me I get a much more consistant read on the lane and can stay on top of the changes I am making easier. And I took the other one up in grit so that I can play deeper when the head oil starts to go (mostly sport/PBA experience shots) but get the recovery when it hits the friction.
I'm very happy with both balls. But as for the total board coverage being close to the same keep in mind I'm a med/low tracker with a 3/4in. up PAP measurement so the pin strength is fairly close to the same on both balls even though one pin is above the RF and the other is below. (4 5/16 > , 3/4 ^ - cut to cut hand span is also short at 3 15/16 middle 3 5/8 ring)
Later,
REvans284
Post by: bowlallthetime on June 25, 2008, 03:48:28 PM
Post by: LuckyLefty on June 25, 2008, 03:55:08 PM
Now let me ponder..........hmmmmmmm?
REgards,
Luckylefty
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Post by: mrbowlingnut on June 25, 2008, 04:10:24 PM
Now it is very possible to being more inaccurate on say 10 pins, i do this myself the angle of walking across the lane from board 39 and hitting board 19-20 for 10 pins. For what ever reason it cause me great knee pain and I usually flag off about 3-4 a night, this also happens to me on 7 pins but I usually make these because on THS I just hook into them from the right side.
This is my case and do not know Dizzy but from a video or two he has posted, he does throw it ok not great to be honest. Nice guy that he is just being pretty honest here, very smart guy but best bowler not close and that goes for me in the group also. I know that I am accurate and see plenty of old guys who roll it very nice but have lost there carry and ball speed, so average should never be the key to comparisons.
I went down to Wagon wheel lanes in Buena Vista once on vacation averaged 247 a game on there cake shot, does that make me a 247 average????
Also have averaged lower 190's here in Vegas at the Strike Zone, cannot for the life of me at that place. Missed alot of 10 pins there so I guess you could call me inaccurate at 10 pins there.
Edited on 6/25/2008 4:11 PM
Post by: bowlallthetime on June 25, 2008, 04:25:20 PM
Post by: mrbowlingnut on June 25, 2008, 04:29:02 PM
Post by: qstick777 on June 25, 2008, 04:41:51 PM
Read the CG debate and guys will say that a CG shift causing a 2ft difference in the breakpoint is "insignificant." Those same guys will tell you that the new ball in a product line is "about 2-3 boards stronger," or "is about 2 feet longer" than the previous model.
I guess 2 feet only matters when it helps sell bowling balls.
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Post by: JessN16 on June 25, 2008, 06:55:50 PM
Anyone with some mental ability regarding layouts want to tell me you can't watch Chris Barnes throw a pin-down, 2-inch pin-to-PAP ball and notice the difference when he switches to a pin-up, 6-inch pin-to-PAP ball? I would hope you can. Surely in person, but even on television.
As to one's own game, yes, I believe anyone with even a modicum of skill would notice the difference in reaction shapes if they took the time to learn about it. That's a learned skill that is separate from bowling ability -- and it's one that not every bowler, even some very successful bowlers, ever learn or care to learn. I know 170-average bowlers who know far more about their arsenals than some 230 guys.
What average is, without dragging the oil pattern into it, is a measurement of two things: (1) Your physical bowling ability, and (2) how well you can apply what you know mentally to the sport.
I average right around 190 and can definitely tell the difference in layouts. The reason I average 190 is because I can't repeat the shot well enough and my house doesn't lay out a fluff shot that covers everything up. When I miss, I tend to pay for it, and my knowledge of surface/layout/etc. lets me know exactly how I'm going to end up paying for it before the ball gets halfway down the lane.
Jess
Post by: Kid Jete on June 25, 2008, 07:25:05 PM
Post by: REvans284 on June 25, 2008, 09:50:20 PM
quote:
mrbowlingnut, Your accuracy DOES affect your bowling average. If you are an accurate player, you will not average only 177...especially on a THS. Averaging 177 means you are missing 2 spares/game. An accurate player won't leave 2 splits per game on average or miss 2 single pin spares per game on average. If you are truly accurate, but lack the power and revs, you should still average 190 because you are accurate enough to get your spares.
I dis-agree with this statement. And I think alot of it depends also on the conditions that you bowl on (sport VS ths).
My fiance isn't a power bowler, and doesn't get tons of revolutions on a bowling ball either. But she is deadly accurate. Before the age of 18 she'd picked up the 7-10 (twice), and the big 4, shot multiple all spare games, and a few clean series'. She still doesn't average 200+ but is holding strong at the mid 190 range.
People who generate power CAN spray the lane on a house shot and carry and score reguardless of how terrible their spare shooting or accuracy is. She can plow the pocket consistantly on some days (mostly when theres more volume of oil) and leave alot of flat 10s among other leaves but still be rewarded at times also.
When there is friction out there though and it helps aid the drive her ball has, she's easily capable of averaging 220+. But we don't have the funding to keep buying a ton of equipment for her and get a ton of stuff layed out for her to cover a wide variety of conditions. We've tried 3 different high performance balls for longer/thicker volume patterns in 1 1/2 years with moderate success, but are still trying to find something we can get to pop for her or read the midlane sooner.
To make a long story short though, we haven't found a way for her to average "high" on a house shot. But when the sport shot is layed down her average doesn't drop much (if any in some cases) because of her accuracy. Accuracy counts for alot, but on a house shot it doesn't mean you are accurate.
Later,
REvans284
Post by: bowlallthetime on June 25, 2008, 11:47:50 PM
I also never said a 177 bowler was not knowledgable about bowling. I said someone averaging 177 shouldn't snicker at other bowlers not being able to hit their mark 2x in a row. I'm sure there are many bowlers under 200 who know a lot more about pin placements and the dynamics of bowling balls than I do. I admitted earlier to not knowing a lot about drillings of balls.
Edited on 6/25/2008 11:50 PM
Post by: dizzyfugu on June 26, 2008, 02:57:31 AM
quote:
I averaged 221 this year, and I'll admit, I don't know much about pin placements. I go to my driller, and explain to him the reaction I am looking for, and he drills it.
Its funny how some of the posters in this thread talk about others who can't hit the same mark twice. For example, Dizzy said the following:
"Even though I must admit that I have to smile (internally) when I see bowlers who cannot hit any mark on the lane twice show their high end balls with pride"
Dizzy's stats from his profile:
"Average(s) and personal records:
Official 2006/07 DBU average: 177,2"
With a high average of 177, you don't really have a right to talk about others not being able to hit their mark 2x in a row. You probably can't either, and thats why you're at 177.
I have no problem hitting my mark 2x in a row....3x is a little tough.
It is not a shame to have a 211 average without having a clue what happens with the ball on the lanes
I never claimed that I could hit my mark perfectly, either, I know how mediocre my game is.But coming back to your post: even though I am "only" a 180 average bowler (rising), I put much thought, learning effort and experimenting into getting to know equipment and the theoretical basis of bowling. I consider this factor to be very important, to know what you do on the lane, and I admit that I might have a rather cerebral than pragmatic approach to the game. But that's not the point, I can just tell my point of view.
And if I do not have a right to make a personal statement, then I think any bowler who has no idea about what and how his/her ball rolls and why has even less. That's the difference between "scoring" in bowling, or "playing".
Let me confirm that an average hardly tells you anything about a player's level of knowing or understanding what he or she and/or the respective ball actually does on the lane.
I like to know what my ball is actually doing, and why, and how I can optimize its potential, and I see that it gives me a certain edge in difficult situations and makes arsenal building easier. And having an eye for ball reactions is just one part of it, also to help team mates in league or tournament to make sound adjustments.
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Post by: dizzyfugu on June 26, 2008, 03:02:46 AM
quote:
This is my case and do not know Dizzy but from a video or two he has posted, he does throw it ok not great to be honest. Nice guy that he is just being pretty honest here, very smart guy but best bowler not close and that goes for me in the group also. I know that I am accurate and see plenty of old guys who roll it very nice but have lost there carry and ball speed, so average should never be the key to comparisons.
Thank you, and that's just how I see it, too. I am NOT the best bowler, just look at my style video in my profile. I have no problem with contructive critique, that's what it is for. I am still trying to improve in the execution and simply lack time for frequent training - I am sure I could be better, especially the 2-spares-per-game lack is my problem (half of them splits). So true...
But that does not prevent me from trying to become knowledgeable about ball dynamics and having a keen eye on ball reactions.
Bowl well!
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Post by: dizzyfugu on June 26, 2008, 03:04:53 AM
quote:
Average is irrelevant in being able to tell a difference in drillings. For that matter, you don't even have to be a bowler, period. You can watch someone else and as long as you know how accurate they are (say, when watching a pro bowl) you can see the difference in their ball downlane.
Anyone with some mental ability regarding layouts want to tell me you can't watch Chris Barnes throw a pin-down, 2-inch pin-to-PAP ball and notice the difference when he switches to a pin-up, 6-inch pin-to-PAP ball? I would hope you can. Surely in person, but even on television.
As to one's own game, yes, I believe anyone with even a modicum of skill would notice the difference in reaction shapes if they took the time to learn about it. That's a learned skill that is separate from bowling ability -- and it's one that not every bowler, even some very successful bowlers, ever learn or care to learn. I know 170-average bowlers who know far more about their arsenals than some 230 guys.
What average is, without dragging the oil pattern into it, is a measurement of two things: (1) Your physical bowling ability, and (2) how well you can apply what you know mentally to the sport.
I average right around 190 and can definitely tell the difference in layouts. The reason I average 190 is because I can't repeat the shot well enough and my house doesn't lay out a fluff shot that covers everything up. When I miss, I tend to pay for it, and my knowledge of surface/layout/etc. lets me know exactly how I'm going to end up paying for it before the ball gets halfway down the lane.
Jess
Great post, and similar to my case
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Post by: Grayson on June 26, 2008, 03:41:41 AM
simple?
By far not!
Do I see a difference?
Hell! YEAH!
I have had two balls with a different coverstock and a different core layed out different and ran at full speed into the "haha gotcha" wall of ignorance... my own that was.
Both balls did the very same movement on the lanes! Believe it or not the only slight difference was in one board more or less hook and the solid was... if though... a tad... but almost unnoticable smoother... but really not noticable.
what I want to say with that is:
Knowing your stuff has never hurt and having a plan is almost everytime better than just getting there and trying... getting back... get a new ball... try again... and so on.
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Post by: mrbowlingnut on June 26, 2008, 11:45:33 AM
Not all naturally gifted bowlers have rocks between the ears but alot of staff players are dumb as a box of rocks when it comes to there drilling layouts and surface preps.
You would be surprised of how many will say my driller punches it and I have no clue of what my pap is????
My top average guy in my league last year had 3 800's including a 867 but the guy did not even know what ball he was using. It was the Cell but he told me that he said he wanted a strong ball and that's what they sold him, well Duh I thought.
Never bothered to ask him his layout just walked over and looked at the ball myself but without knowing his exact pap, only could estimate it from seeing his track. Guy throws it great but does he care to expand his knowledge of the Game??? Of course not he is just that good without even trying, so does average really mean jack sh1t???
Yes and no for all purposes it has too but for better yourself it means nothing to me, I am usually in the top 8-10 guys a night out of 120 bowlers for series. I know if I was not injured permanently from having only 10 percent of cardlidge left, that i would move up to the top 2-3 guys but having no leverage I am forced to live with my body is able to do weekly.
It is reason I hardly bowl any tournaments, long formats eat me up from too pain and for it some guys say i am wannabe locally. Trust me I want to kick your azz bowling every time I shoe up, no matter if i know you are better or not. From bowling against much better guys I learned to adopt this thought process or get run over.
Post by: bowlallthetime on June 26, 2008, 05:32:06 PM
There is nothing wrong with being a 180 average. I said you should not snicker at other bowlers who can't hit the same mark time after time...especially when u are in the same position.
Post by: dizzyfugu on June 27, 2008, 03:06:39 AM
quote:
You would be surprised of how many will say my driller punches it and I have no clue of what my pap is????
Well, I'd confirm this rather shocking observation from the local area. I have 3 ball drillers/pro shops close by. One is a real expert (Brunswick staffer, national team member, premier league, and a very nice person, too), and I was lucky to come across him when I started with bowling without ANY clue.
He took time, made excellent measurements, did a very good counselling job (I learned to appreciate his expertise later when I learned more about balls and the game as such) and did not try to sell me anything. I am still his customer, and know for sure why, because I have seen what the other pro shops which are even closer by my home "do".
One is a hobby pro shopper at a house where open bowling rules. He even does training, but I highly doubt he has any license. I have seen the balls he drilled, and he has for example ruined a bowler's complete arsenal and game by drilling the balls for a lefty (while the player is a righty)! The error just came out when the poor player searched help at another pro shop, wondering why the balls did not recat anyway or why the fingers and thumb would hurt... Can you believe THAT? Sure, she did not get any refund on this error. Great customer service, and en ego like a bus
The other local pro shop is actually at my club house, next door, so to say - but I do not trust anyone who just puts label leverage drillings on ANYONE's ball, with strange pin placements too close to the PAP that the ball would rather roll than hook. Does not look to to me like the self-claimed expert...? I am sceptical.
And that's another erason why I wanted (and still want) to learn about ball drillings as well as tuning options. There's so much potential in a ball that fits one's game, and on the other side you can easily ruin (or at least render useless) a sporting good that can cost you a whopping $400. Better know what you get, or what you want out of it
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Edited on 6/27/2008 3:22 AM
Post by: dizzyfugu on June 27, 2008, 03:19:05 AM
quote:quote:
With a high average of 177, you don't really have a right to talk about others not being able to hit their mark 2x in a row. You probably can't either, and thats why you're at 177.
This is my point. With a 177 avg, can you or do you really need to see what a pin over vs pin under drill does ??
--------------------quote:
I will head to my local pro shop. Right after I buy it online.
Sport Bowling is a F**king joke
Yes, I do. I found the use of different pin positions and ball recations to be very usefuol for me, to biuld up an arsenal that is useable on varying conditions and that truly offers different reactions, so that the balls truly have a right to be in my bag. Still working on it, because it took very long to shake the arsenal down and fill gaps, as well as eliminating balls that are too close to each other reaction- or condition-wise. Maybe I put much thought into that, but I work thoroughly
As a side note, those 177 come from official league play and tournaments with ever-changing (and partly unknown) lanes, plus a slump phase last fall where I only managed to get a 165 average together for 6 weeks. No fun at all, and nothing I am proud of. Since January, my average has gone up steaduily - the highest had been a 210, and I recently played 2 tournaments with a 190 and 195 average, both on rather demanding patterns that were designed to change quickly. In both cases, my knowledge or ideas about the conditions at hand and my arsenal's potential has helped me gain a decisive edge, compensating for my not-so-good delivery. I am not the player who can string 200+ games on demand, but I am able to score and remain competitive while the more pragmatic players who might have higher averages have problems in the longer run. It really pays out.
Since I have not enough time for frequent training, this "compensation" on the theoretical level has become a very good strategy for me - and it is also helpful in league play, when I can support the team with ball recation observations and suggestion about different lines or equipment.
--------------------
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Post by: Rev_O on June 27, 2008, 05:53:55 AM
--------------------
Rev-O
Post by: dizzyfugu on June 27, 2008, 06:17:19 AM
quote:
If you havent got the ability, no use worrying about pin placement. Learn the game, then worry about perfecting it. Fit is number 1, reaction is number 2. How do you know if a ball has the right reaction if you cant get it off your hand clean?
Good point!
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Post by: 302efi on June 27, 2008, 07:35:49 AM
I didnt really want to point anyone out or put th epoint of this post onto any "one" person.
IMO, if someone can't avg at least 190 on a THS, theres no point in knowing what different drills do. On a THS, no matter yoru style or drill, anyone can atleast avg 190. The THS lane conditions pretty much make everyball do the same thing as we know..lol
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quote:
I will head to my local pro shop. Right after I buy it online.
Sport Bowling is a F**king joke
Post by: CharlieBrown on June 27, 2008, 07:53:17 AM
quote:
IMO, if someone can't avg at least 190 on a THS, theres no point in knowing what different drills do.
While execution remains the key, surely knowledge never hurts anyone?
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I'm a THS hack and a ball junkie.
Post by: dizzyfugu on June 27, 2008, 08:08:57 AM
I know drillers/trainers who swear by the idea that this was "enough" until you average 190. But IMHO it is just a focus un execution, neglecting the technical and some intellectual aspects of bowling?
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DizzyFugu (http://"http://www.putfile.com/dizzyfugu/") - Reporting from Germany
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Post by: 302efi on June 27, 2008, 08:10:04 AM
quote:
While execution remains the key, surely knowledge never hurts anyone?
To much knowledge of balls and can't apply it in bowling is a bad thing.
It's very easy to get overwhelmed and confused over which ball, suface and layout is very easy in todays game....No apply that to a sub 190 bowler..
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quote:
I will head to my local pro shop. Right after I buy it online.
Sport Bowling is a F**king joke
Post by: qstick777 on June 27, 2008, 08:12:14 AM
quote:
IMO, if someone can't avg at least 190 on a THS, theres no point in knowing what different drills do. On a THS, no matter yoru style or drill, anyone can atleast avg 190. The THS lane conditions pretty much make everyball do the same thing as we know..lol
Maybe that's why so many "pro" shops slap a label drill on every ball they sell and call it good?
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Post by: 302efi on June 27, 2008, 08:12:24 AM
quote:
I know drillers/trainers who swear by the idea that this was "enough" until you average 190. But IMHO it is just a focus un execution, neglecting the technical and some intellectual aspects of bowling?
Exactly..Why would someone learn all these technical(balls) aspects and can't even throw the ball well enough to use the experience they have ?
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quote:
I will head to my local pro shop. Right after I buy it online.
Sport Bowling is a F**king joke
Post by: REvans284 on June 27, 2008, 12:39:17 PM
quote:
REvans284, what part of my statement did you disagree with? I stated even a player w/o high revs can still average 190 if they are accurate...that seemed to describe your fiance's game. I said a 177 average bowler isn't very accurate because you still have to have 6 opens a night (with no doubles) to average 177. I also do not thing picking up a 7-10 two times shows that you are accurate...7-10 pick ups are lucky, PERIOD. Big 4 pick ups also involve a lot of luck. I would never judge the accuracy of someones game based on how many 7-10s they have picked up.
I also never said a 177 bowler was not knowledgable about bowling. I said someone averaging 177 shouldn't snicker at other bowlers not being able to hit their mark 2x in a row. I'm sure there are many bowlers under 200 who know a lot more about pin placements and the dynamics of bowling balls than I do. I admitted earlier to not knowing a lot about drillings of balls.
Edited on 6/25/2008 11:50 PM
I can understand where you are coming from a little better now. The way I took your other post was that if you weren't a higher average bowler that you weren't accurate enough to tell the difference in reaction. What I misinterperated was the gap in average you were referring to.
I agree it takes alot of luck to pick up those spares (7-10, big 4), but its normal to see her make difficult spares multiple times even in a set such as wash outs, 5-10s, and even on a good day 4-9s if she leaves one without relying on any hook. She uses her plastic for spares religiously even on some clusters, and while those spares (5-10 particular) aren't that difficult, it is when you don't rely on hook to convert them. That simulates what its like on your sport conditions because its very difficult to hook at spares on that compared to the way most people do on house shots.
I do agree that people who average lower do have more things to worry about than what other people are doing with their game (such as your point about hitting their targets as opposed to worrying about their own).
Later,
REvans284