Author Topic: cheater balls? (Read 11459 times)

shredhead · « **on:** January 19, 2008, 06:18:40 AM »

is there really such thing a cheater ball? if so what are they? how could they possibly be a cheater?

pop_1 · « **Reply #16 on:** January 20, 2008, 09:04:19 AM »

I would say balls that are loaded. I've seen some balls filled with fishing weights. I would see these balls used during late night action matches.

michelle · « **Reply #17 on:** January 22, 2008, 08:30:06 AM »

I'm surprised we got this many posts into the thread without the obligatory McCune and MEK references...complete with discussions of the hardness readings entering into current requirements.

se7en · « **Reply #18 on:** January 22, 2008, 10:31:53 AM »

We have a lane machine that can't put down true PBA patterns, so they got them 'close'.

What ended up being a sport league based on the PBA experience ended up with patterns that were more difficult than the PBA conditions.

One particular bowler who averages 235 at age 21, struggled to break out of the low 180s on average. He's no house hack either. Best bowler in the area by far considering his age.

My point is, I don't care how strong your ball hooks off the wall; anything can be negated by lane oil.

If anything is cheating, it's the house patterns they put out. I bowl in two different houses; one synthetic and one guardian. I think I might have to move 1-2 boards on the guardian and stand in the same spot all night on the synthetics. On the sport league, you had to adjust fast.
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There is nothing so easy to learn as experience and nothing so hard to apply.

Borincano · « **Reply #19 on:** January 22, 2008, 11:02:28 AM »

In the 60's and 70's. Some PBA bowlers had cheater bowling balls because they were using plug balls with mercury injected inside of them. You can see some of these plugged bowling balls being thrown on TV during that time by known names. Nobody dares to mention names. I wonder why?

Now just visualize who will benefit the most by rolling the ball with mercury inside.

Then came the rule that no plugged bowling balls can be use in PBA competition.

The McCune soaker bowling ball was another cheater bowling ball.

dicnic · « **Reply #20 on:** January 22, 2008, 12:29:42 PM »

Michelle has it about right. In the old days, you could "soak" a ball in acetone or other solvents for a specific period of time which would soften the cover. The ball then would hook a bunch. While ABC and WIBC illegal, many bowlers used them for pot games, challenges after league etc.

Many other things were tried as mentioned above but most of the cheating was to the surface. Nobody carried around a durometer to measure hardness.

Today's high performance balls hook even more so cheating balls are not necessary.
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Never take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.

Urethane Game · « **Reply #21 on:** January 22, 2008, 06:45:12 PM »

quote:
Cheater balls? I'd say they are any ball mentioned by someone who refuses to accept that things don't stay the same over long periods of time. Cheater balls are often mentioned by bowlers who start stories with "Back in my day...".

OK, so the notion here is that yes the game has evolved. Still there is inequity. With the exception of raising the minimum weight from 3 lbs 2 ounces to 3lbs 6 ounces in the early eighties the specifications for pins haven't changed to provide any resistance to today's modern bowling balls.

With the exception of Sport Bowling, the SKILL of getting a ball to roll through the pins properly has been completely negated by, dare I say it, CHEATER BALLS! Any of you out there who don't understand that are either too young or too ignorant to know the difference.

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got revs?

Classic Rock and Blues Net Radio

WSUstroker · « **Reply #22 on:** January 22, 2008, 08:00:31 PM »

quote:

OK, so the notion here is that yes the game has evolved. Still there is inequity. With the exception of raising the minimum weight from 3 lbs 2 ounces to 3lbs 6 ounces in the early eighties the specifications for pins haven't changed to provide any resistance to today's modern bowling balls.

With the exception of Sport Bowling, the SKILL of getting a ball to roll through the pins properly has been completely negated by, dare I say it, CHEATER BALLS! Any of you out there who don't understand that are either too young or too ignorant to know the difference.

So it becomes the fault of the "cheater" ball that houses put out cake shots? Check out the scoring pace at the Dick Weber Open this past week. The best bowlers in the world were struggling to average 200.

You yourself mentioned that sport bowling is where the skill is needed. If bowling balls are unable to overcome the demand of skill in sport bowling, you've already pointed out the problem. Put the blame where it belongs.
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Dan Chambers
www.absolutebowling.com

thehurricane · « **Reply #23 on:** January 22, 2008, 08:18:47 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wqlMIueWdZo

Urethane Game · « **Reply #24 on:** January 22, 2008, 08:49:11 PM »

Yes, the scoring pace at the Dick Weber Classic was low. Shotmaking, however, should include not only being accurate but producing roll that can effectively knock down 10 pins. Scroggins is certainly accurate enough but certainly doesn't produce the strong roll of past lefty greats like Anthony, Petraglia, Cook or Aulby.

Notice I said roll, not hook. If you add raw power to the equation someone like Scroggins couldn't never have competed with the likes of John Gant just twenty years ago.

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got revs?

Classic Rock and Blues Net Radio

JessN16 · « **Reply #25 on:** January 22, 2008, 09:03:59 PM »

And people who scored with urethane, Mr. "Urethane Game," couldn't necessarily do so with plastic or lignum vitae.

Care to address "cheater" urethane balls?

This was fine until you wanted to call people who disagreed with you "too young" or "too ignorant." No need for that. Just because you were losing the argument didn't mean you had to resort to insults.

Jess

Urethane Game · « **Reply #26 on:** January 22, 2008, 09:29:20 PM »

I stand by what I said. The introduction of the Angle was certainly an increase in performance as were bleeder Yellow Dots and even LT-48s. Lots of easy lane conditions then but not nearly the high scores because at that time the pins did provide some resistance relative to the technology of the bowling balls. If you made a bad shot with those balls, there would likely be a penalty even if you hit the pocket.

Today, you don't really see that many weak pocket splits like 8-10s, 5-7s or a what was even a fairly common spare like the 2-4-5.

By the way, young and ignorant is not an insult but something many of you will outgrow.

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got revs?

Classic Rock and Blues Net Radio

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #27 on:** January 22, 2008, 09:46:10 PM »

Freakin10 pin.

I bowled one year in the early 80s....I guess a short oil pattern.

It was so easy to hit the pocket and carry I couldn't believe it.

It was my first year bowling in 15 years or more and my first year trying left handed and I picked up a 16 pound yellow dot the second half of the season and averaged over 190.....this while missing many corner pin spares. Translation...probably 21X if I worked on my sparemaking. EASY to hit the pocket! Why anyone want to use a resin on that pattern when the Yellow dot made the shot so simple to hit the pocket....and carried well too! While going some version of straight up the second arrow!

One could throw the ball 12 mph and just smooth it out there with that Yellow Dot "cheater ball" and it would carry!

Today....one must use more speed ...generate revs(ie more coordination) to get very good scores...I know I've found I've had to increase my speed nearly 4 mph.

My first thought of using a reactive when I started back after a nearly 20 year hiatus. "Man those balls hit hard......Man...it's tough to hit the pocket!

I don't think that much different today....some days!

Mike Scroggins as a hack.... I don't think so.....Hooking it little....I believe intentional. If he wanted to slow roll it one thing....BUT instead he likes to emphasize speed over board coverage and likes to throw the ball pretty direct with a good brisk speed element to his game!

It was not tougher in the 80s.....I believe it was easier!

REgards,

Luckylefty
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Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

JessN16 · « **Reply #28 on:** January 22, 2008, 11:45:19 PM »

quote:
I stand by what I said. The introduction of the Angle was certainly an increase in performance as were bleeder Yellow Dots and even LT-48s. Lots of easy lane conditions then but not nearly the high scores because at that time the pins did provide some resistance relative to the technology of the bowling balls. If you made a bad shot with those balls, there would likely be a penalty even if you hit the pocket.

Today, you don't really see that many weak pocket splits like 8-10s, 5-7s or a what was even a fairly common spare like the 2-4-5.

By the way, young and ignorant is not an insult but something many of you will outgrow.
--------------------
got revs?

Classic Rock and Blues Net Radio

You can stand by what you said until the cows come home.

The facts of the matter read like this:

1) The balls are legal.
2) There is no rush to get rid of them.
3) Technology affects all sports.
4) Over the next 20 years, most of the people in this sport will either be so accustomed to the way things have been done for the last 20 years that your position will be quite anachronistic to say the least, or those people will be sadly gone from this earth.
5) Your opinion -- not fact, opinion -- will not be able to change any of it.

By the way, debate 101 says that when someone has lost the argument, one of the first things they do is resort to personal attacks. Or, if they feel intellectually inferior, they will go to personal attacks very early in the debate in an attempt to silence their critics out of fear. Perhaps you can enlighten me as to which statement most applies to you.

Jess

p.s.: I would greatly caution you against throwing the word "ignorant" around in the future when it's clear you have no idea the intellectual capacity of the people you're trying to insult.

rhbowling07 · « **Reply #29 on:** January 23, 2008, 12:08:24 AM »

i dont think there are any cheater balls. everyone has an equal chance at getting all the balls.

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #30 on:** January 23, 2008, 08:13:51 AM »

I'd like to explain what I'm trying to say better. First of all...in my mind I do not have a negative connotation to the term "cheater balls"....(I am not thinking of the legal type! Not the illegal!).

I am enjoying taking advantage of what I consider the new cheater balls...ie strong assymetricals on a typical league top hat.

I now understand as I am setting up these strong assymetrical balls with the strong mass bias positions that what Mo Pinel is trying to show bowlers how to take advantage of these powerful tools.

Bottom line if one can get their feet deep in the oil the area that can be created at the break point is incredible.

For example in my top hat league there is a much better bowler than me that when we bowl together I often can hang with him. We use the same ball.

He puts his mass bias position under the thumb,,,,on the other hand I have my mass bias kicked out to say about a 55 degree position(2 inches from thumb). The condition is very wettish in the midlane and my drilling churns and grabs thru this midlane giving me a nice swing and earlier recovery...giving me area from say 5 at the break to 12 to hit the pocket and carry!

This to me is what a legal "cheater" ball will give you on a crown or 3/1 league pattern area to recover hit and carry from the outside and when tugged they will go straighter like the older stuff but hit just hard enough from this reduced angle to still barely carry!

Sweet!

The same ball set up weak mass bias on the wetter left side where I live will penetrate too far and cause one to thread the needle to strike. If you like to do that fine!

On other higher friction midlane conditions the mass bias must be set much weaker so the ball does not create unneeded midlane but instead the lane supplies it! Very often the righty bowling on a higher friction surface can set his midlane weaker to allow the friction to supply the midlane.

REgards,

Luckylefty
--------------------
Open the door...see what's possible...and just walk right on through...that's how easy success feels..

Author Topic: cheater balls? (Read 11459 times)

shredhead

cheater balls?

pop_1

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michelle

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se7en

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Borincano

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dicnic

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Urethane Game

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WSUstroker

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thehurricane

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Urethane Game

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JessN16

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Urethane Game

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LuckyLefty

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JessN16

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rhbowling07

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LuckyLefty

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