win a ball from Bowling.com
« previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9] 10

Author Topic: Clean game definition  (Read 17729 times)

ldkelleyb5

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 35
Clean game definition
« on: September 04, 2017, 06:33:44 PM »
If you get 1 mark in the 10th, is it considered a clean game?  I'm fairly sure that if you get a spare and change in the 10th, it should be a clean game, but I'm wondering more about a strike, then, say, a 7 count, then a 2.

Just something I've been wondering about for some time, and everyone seems to have a different answer.
Thanks!
Logged

 

tommygn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 694
Re: Clean game definition
« Reply #121 on: September 19, 2017, 05:49:13 PM »
Quote from: avabob on September 19, 2017, 05:41:46 PM
I have seen a lot of 19th hole golf course lounges too.  Here's the thing.  There is a reason you don't fund clean gsne defined in the rule book, just as you don't see Brooklyn, Dutch 2000, and other idioms of the game.  If you get your satisfaction from filing the 10th with a strike and spare, great.  Of course that is marginally better than a strike and 9 out.  Personally I am a lot more disappointed in not getting the second strike than in covering the remaining spare. 

But in golf, the 18th hole doesn't have any special or specific unto it alone, rules, like the 10th frame of bowling.  Two very different things. 18th hole rules are the exact same as all the other holes on the course; all based on the par of the individual  hole.

Logged
God creates us with a blank canvas, and the "picture" we paint is up to us. Paint a picture you like and love!

avabob

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2778
Re: Clean game definition
« Reply #122 on: September 19, 2017, 07:57:00 PM »
Somebody get me out of this rabbit hole.  I can't seem to help myself!
Logged

charlest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 24523
Re: Clean game definition
« Reply #123 on: September 20, 2017, 08:45:29 AM »
Quote from: tommygn on September 19, 2017, 03:40:21 PM
Quote from: charlest on September 19, 2017, 03:29:20 PM
Quote from: tommygn on September 18, 2017, 10:07:58 PM
Quote from: charlest on September 18, 2017, 09:55:43 PM
Quote from: Steven on September 18, 2017, 07:08:58 PM
Quote from: dmonroe814 on September 18, 2017, 06:08:43 PM
You are missing one small point.  There are only 10 frames in a game.  The 10th frame consists of one frame plus one or possibly 2 bonus throws.  If you mark with a spare in the 10th, then you get one bonus throw.  If you mark with a strike in the 10th, then you get 2 bonus throws.  Bonus throws do not count toward the clean game.


If you get the first strike in the 10th, the frame continues with two additional shots. If you fail to knock down all 10 pins with the next two shots, isn't that an open according to rule 2g?

Is there now a special definition to the 10th frame? I was not aware of that.

The frame does not, as near as I can tell, continue. They are not called "fill" balls for nothing. You're "fulflling" the 10th frame in which you are entitled to the count garnered by the fall of 1 or 2 more balls, as the case may be. It is not the "11"th frame, which does not truly exist. You are just finding out how many extra pins you will get as a bonus for your mark in the 10th frame, the last "frame" of the game.

Calling the extra shots " fill balls" is as much of a made up term as calling it the 11th and 12th frames.  Can't have it both ways.  Besides,  I usually hear them called 11th and 12th balls,  rarely have I heard them called frames, but for the sake of the argument...

Rules book clearly refers to shots as deliveries.

While fill balls is clearly a term for those shots/deliveries, it is much more valid, conceptually speaking, than is the term, 11th or 12th frame, since that violates the definition of a "game".


I will agree with your statement in theory,  however, I've seen plenty of 12th frame pro shops, 11th frame lounges, 12th frame snack bars, etc.....  I have yet to see one fill ball lounge, lol. Right or wrong, 11th or 12th frame is a more commonly accepted and universally used made up phrase to indicate those extra deliveries in the tenth.

Someone starts something and people adopt it, right or wrong. It does make it correct. It makes it popular. Heck, the majority of older bowlers still think it is wrong to be able to clean your ball with anything during bowling.  Does that make it right?
Logged
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

tommygn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 694
Re: Clean game definition
« Reply #124 on: September 20, 2017, 08:53:09 AM »
Quote from: charlest on September 20, 2017, 08:45:29 AM

Someone starts something and people adopt it, right or wrong. It does make it correct. It makes it popular. Heck, the majority of older bowlers still think it is wrong to be able to clean your ball with anything during bowling.  Does that make it right?

There is a specific rule that says you can't use certain products to clean your bowling balls during competition, and certain products you can use.

There is no rule that says what you can or can't call the extra delivery made available because of a mark in the tenth.

#strikeguttergutterisacleangame
Logged
God creates us with a blank canvas, and the "picture" we paint is up to us. Paint a picture you like and love!

Good Times Good Times

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6462
  • INTJ Personality
Re: Clean game definition
« Reply #125 on: September 20, 2017, 09:11:26 AM »
Quote from: tommygn on September 20, 2017, 08:53:09 AM
#strikeguttergutterisacleangame

I like this......
Logged
GTx2

rocky61201

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 241
Re: Clean game definition
« Reply #126 on: September 20, 2017, 09:21:27 AM »

#strikeguttergutterisacleangame
[/quote]

Well if the dashes on the scoreboard are small enough then maybe nobody will see them.  ;)
Logged
In the bag:  900 Global Zen, Hy Road Pearl, Astro Physix.

Steven

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7680
Re: Clean game definition
« Reply #127 on: September 20, 2017, 09:32:05 AM »
Quote from: Good Times Good Times on September 20, 2017, 09:11:26 AM
Quote from: tommygn on September 20, 2017, 08:53:09 AM
#strikeguttergutterisacleangame

I like this......

 
It does kind of drive the point home.....  ;D
Logged

Good Times Good Times

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6462
  • INTJ Personality
Re: Clean game definition
« Reply #128 on: September 20, 2017, 09:32:09 AM »
I nominate Jazlar to be President of the #StrikeGutterGutterIsClean club....  ;D  :P
Logged
GTx2

tommygn

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 694
Re: Clean game definition
« Reply #129 on: September 20, 2017, 09:49:40 AM »
Quote from: Steven on September 20, 2017, 09:32:05 AM
Quote from: Good Times Good Times on September 20, 2017, 09:11:26 AM
Quote from: tommygn on September 20, 2017, 08:53:09 AM
#strikeguttergutterisacleangame

I like this......

 
It does kind of drive the point home.....  ;D

I can't take full credit, as it was inspired by one of your earlier posts.
Logged
God creates us with a blank canvas, and the "picture" we paint is up to us. Paint a picture you like and love!

rocky61201

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 241
Re: Clean game definition
« Reply #130 on: September 20, 2017, 09:51:44 AM »
If we had a side pot going on clean games and I rolled ((I mean delivered)) 9 clean frames followed by the first strike in the 10th and then said, "hey guys I'm gonna roll, ((I mean deliver)) 2 gutter balls so I can guarantee winning the side pot" I would probably get my ass kicked or at least receive a profanity laced verbal hazing every single night for the rest of the season.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 11:46:24 AM by rocky61201 »
Logged
In the bag:  900 Global Zen, Hy Road Pearl, Astro Physix.

Aloarjr810

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2149
  • Alley Katz Strike!
Re: Clean game definition
« Reply #131 on: September 20, 2017, 10:10:35 AM »
Okay if we want to haggle over the 10 frame, how about the all spare game? The way a lot of you are looking at the tenth frame, The all spare game is impossible.

You got the front 9 spares,in the 10th frame you go [9/X] or [9/-] or [9/count]

A all spare game is all spares, If you got a strike, count or a miss in the game then you don't have all spares.

Morally you can't accept a all spare award because you know you didn't do it, regardless of how a all spare game is defined.


« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 10:19:58 AM by Aloarjr810 »
Logged
Aloarjr810
----------
Click For My Grip

Steven

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7680
Re: Clean game definition
« Reply #132 on: September 20, 2017, 11:24:36 AM »
Quote from: Aloarjr810 on September 20, 2017, 10:10:35 AM
Okay if we want to haggle over the 10 frame, how about the all spare game? The way a lot of you are looking at the tenth frame, The all spare game is impossible.

You got the front 9 spares,in the 10th frame you go [9/X] or [9/-] or [9/count]

A all spare game is all spares, If you got a strike, count or a miss in the game then you don't have all spares.

Morally you can't accept a all spare award because you know you didn't do it, regardless of how a all spare game is defined.

 
It's actually completely consistent.
 
An all spare game, by definition, is a where you get a spare every time you have exactly two deliveries to knock down all ten pins. In your examples, there is only one delivery remaining -- the very last shot. Since the bowler doesn't have two deliveries remaining, and he's achieved a spare on every other opportunity, it's an all spare game.
 
It's the same concept with a true clean game. The game is clean if you knock down all ten pins every time there are two deliveries. That's why 11 strikes in a row followed by a 9 count is still clean. The bowler didn't have two deliveries renaming at the end of the game.
 
Make sense??
« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 11:47:23 AM by Steven »
Logged

JohnP

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5819
Re: Clean game definition
« Reply #133 on: September 20, 2017, 12:25:11 PM »
I can't believe we have 9 pages on this subject!  If you're in any kind of a contest a clean game is defined in the rules, if you're not in a contest you can use any definition you want to.  --  JohnP
Logged

Aloarjr810

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2149
  • Alley Katz Strike!
Re: Clean game definition
« Reply #134 on: September 20, 2017, 12:50:28 PM »
Quote from: Steven on September 20, 2017, 11:24:36 AM
Quote from: Aloarjr810 on September 20, 2017, 10:10:35 AM
Okay if we want to haggle over the 10 frame, how about the all spare game? The way a lot of you are looking at the tenth frame, The all spare game is impossible.

You got the front 9 spares,in the 10th frame you go [9/X] or [9/-] or [9/count]

A all spare game is all spares, If you got a strike, count or a miss in the game then you don't have all spares.

Morally you can't accept a all spare award because you know you didn't do it, regardless of how a all spare game is defined.

 
It's actually completely consistent.
 
An all spare game, by definition, is a where you get a spare every time you have exactly two deliveries to knock down all ten pins. In your examples, there is only one delivery remaining -- the very last shot. Since the bowler doesn't have two deliveries remaining, and he's achieved a spare on every other opportunity, it's an all spare game.
 
It's the same concept with a true clean game. The game is clean if you knock down all ten pins every time there are two deliveries. That's why 11 strikes in a row followed by a 9 count is still clean. The bowler didn't have two deliveries renaming at the end of the game.
 
Make sense??

Okay ten frames, ten spares equal a all spare game.

Then the classic clean game definition is just as consistent. There are ten frames, so ten marks equal a clean game.

The fill, bonus balls don't matter.

« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 01:00:21 PM by Aloarjr810 »
Logged
Aloarjr810
----------
Click For My Grip

Aloarjr810

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2149
  • Alley Katz Strike!
Re: Clean game definition
« Reply #135 on: September 20, 2017, 12:54:46 PM »
Quote from: JohnP on September 20, 2017, 12:25:11 PM
I can't believe we have 9 pages on this subject!  If you're in any kind of a contest a clean game is defined in the rules, if you're not in a contest you can use any definition you want to.  --  JohnP

You think this is something? This isnt the first time this discussion came up on here, plus its been on other boards too.

An its been just as stupid and never went anywhere as it is here.
Logged
Aloarjr810
----------
Click For My Grip
Pages: 1 ... 7 8 [9] 10
« previous next »