Post by: strikeking on January 21, 2012, 05:09:43 AM
An argument to go back to hard plastic balls. The other team had 4 super crankers. The first game was good for 9 frames and then their super high revs depleated the oil completely from 20 out to the ditch. It not only ruined the shot for the normal bowlers, but also for themselves. The only type of shot not effected would be the "old timer" who throws a hard ball off of the corner straight to the hole. HEY! I just found the solution!
Strikeking
Post by: kidlost2000 on January 21, 2012, 01:20:52 PM
"1 of 1."
Post by: strikeking on January 21, 2012, 01:59:36 PM
Every one knows conditions change, but this is so fast and radical that there is answer as to what ball or line you can choose. It just doesn't seem fair that some bowlers can effect the way other bowlers have to change their game. It did not used to be this way before these "oil soaking" balls and hight rev power players. It becomes a real problem when you have so many on one team.
Strikeking
Post by: gadgetman on January 21, 2012, 02:06:52 PM
Post by: dgordon0408 on January 21, 2012, 02:17:14 PM
Post by: Xx 12 X 300 xX on January 21, 2012, 02:31:20 PM
The crankers do not ruin the condition, the balls ruin the condition. They way the people play the game is not the problem, it's the balls that are used that create the holes in the pattern.
Most people who bowl today, hook the ball. Thus your going to see many changes and transitions in the pattern. The problems come from the wide variety of bowling balls that go down the lane by many different types of bowlers.
The THS allows all bowlers to play many different angles, with many different balls. Your going to get a wide variety of transitions if some guys are using Nano and Defiant, others are using Freezes and some people are using 15 year old balls.
Take a good look at the balls on the rack and see where these balls are going down the lane. The bowling ball is no longer defined as a universal ball for all styles like it used to be in the 80's, Thus EVERYONE on the pair is doing their part to ruin the condition.
You have crankers using Nano and stronger balls, you have straight players using same ball. You have med handed players using Freezes on the same pair and you have some guys using weaker balls yet outside. The wide variety of equipment makes the transitions much different these days.
Very few people understand break point, and that at the end of the pattern we all are pretty much in the same spot. They think just because they be inside or outside of the cranker or other type player that their shot should hold up all night. At some point all of our balls end up rolling over the same area on the lane, thus creating transitions.
The days of everyone using a singular based cover stock strength is over. (Urethane days where everyone used Hammers, U Dots or Nitros).
Edited by Xx 12 X 300 xX on 1/21/2012 at 3:48 PM
Edited by Xx 12 X 300 xX on 1/21/2012 at 3:49 PM
Post by: strikeking on January 21, 2012, 03:55:28 PM
Is this a contest as to who can post the largest print??
Strikeking
Post by: kidlost2000 on January 21, 2012, 04:17:42 PM
I don't think guys with no hand throwing grit hook monsters up the right side of the lane helps the conditions either. Neither do guys that try to hook the ball using grit monsters spraying across the lane.
Many of todays bowling balls used by any group of bowlers will break down a line or an area very quickly, regardless of rev rate. I'm not a high rev player, but I do understand the need to adjust based on what grit monsters are being played where. That is bowling today. Bowlers are sold on "a ball for todays new oils" and because of this and everyones fascination with trying to be a big hooking player your problem will continue to exist.
Less oil for them all.
"1 of 1."
Post by: nocarey on January 21, 2012, 04:37:41 PM
+1
Post by: strikeking on January 21, 2012, 04:49:14 PM
There is a difference between a stroker and a cranker burning up the lane. A stroker may have 4 or 5 oil rings, but a cranker can have 10 or more. Thus twice as much oil on the ball or being thrown off the the same ball.
Strikeking
Post by: Juggernaut on January 21, 2012, 05:13:36 PM
+2
Post by: 230-n-up-or-bust on January 21, 2012, 05:21:13 PM
Help control the population of Avenging Unicorns. Arm yourselves accordingly.
"I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous."-Nick Faldo
"I'm as frustrated as a mosquito in a mannequin factory."-Larry The Cable Guy
Post by: mainzer on January 22, 2012, 02:04:28 PM
Adjust like 230 n up said. You have some choices to combat what the Crankers do.
You can move right with a weaker ball staying right of their BP longer, You can move left with them just not as much with a weaker ball focusing on getting the ball farther down lane before it hooks.
Or if you want to screw with the crankers shot you could pull urethane or plastic out and go up the track and push all the oil down so it is tougher for them to get oil off the lane.
MainzerPower
Post by: six pack on January 22, 2012, 04:35:17 PM
I would have no problem with going to urethane or plastic,hell I use them most times anyways. You need to plan an arsenal for league these days and what will give you the best options to score,be it oil soaker,urethane and or plastic. I wish someone would make a plastic particle,think about it.
The harder I try the harder they fall
Post by: cory867 on January 23, 2012, 05:28:51 AM
Who is to say who is normal. A "cranker" may think the stroker is abnormal. 
Cory
Ten Pin Bowling Pro Shop
USBC Bronze Certified Coach
USBC Registered Volunteer
Post by: Impending Doom on January 23, 2012, 06:02:06 AM
Every shot anyone throws ruins the condition.. be it cranker, stroker, tweener or open bowler with a house ball.
*Inventor of the FIBJAM*
The sky is falling
The end is near
The final warning
The sun disappears.
My arsenal
Post by: trash heap on January 23, 2012, 07:48:54 AM
This is where league bowlers fail. They rather use their high end equipment and ruin the shot instead of working together to have some kind of shot in the third game. Most league bowlers are not thinking about down the road. It's all about the hook. I think alot would be surprised that they could use a pearl, move right, and have just as much or more success than using their high grit bowling ball.
Edited by trash heap on 1/23/2012 at 8:50 AM
Post by: spmcgivern on January 23, 2012, 08:33:11 AM
This is definitely how I feel about it. I remember bowling collegiately and the women's teams would beat the men's teams because of how they play the shot. And it is more apparent now with stronger covers on the balls.
It all comes down to egos. People feel they have to throw the newest, most expensive ball around and they force the shot with it.
I remember my girlfriend shooting 300 the first game of league but could shoot anything else when she had to move in a little because there was a guy spraying a Nano that he scuffed up with a green scotch-brite before bowling. She still shot well and they won all the games, but it is annoying thinking you are throwing the ball very well and can be limited on a personal achievement.
I am not a pro-bowler, but I do play one on BallReviews.com
Post by: scotts33 on January 23, 2012, 09:25:59 AM
I punched this up last week and in two 5 man league nights it has worked well. 701 last Thurs night on what I would term ala riggs "frictious" 16 yr. old 1st Gen. Anvilhang house pattern I played right of all the down and in righties 39' 19 ml puddle in the middle nothing to the outside which is what I would think the majority see. You can see my stats. in profile.
Played a line sliding 19...9 at arrows to 3-4 break point. Very high scoring entry angle. Didn't break down until game 3. Much like a Cheetah type situation.
DRY LANES WITH CLEAN BACK ENDS
pearl reactive or skid snap coverstock formulation, high RG (2.60), low Diff (.020), 4k Abralon and polish
Ogre SS fits this description to a T. 2.61 .027 pearl reactive or skid snap coverstock formulation, high RG (2.60), low Diff (.020), 4k Abralon and polish
VBP Ogre SS 90* (pin to PSA) x 5" x 65* no x hole OOB surface.
Scott
Post by: TWOHAND834 on January 23, 2012, 09:28:13 AM
WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!!!!! This is nonsense. Obviously I am a high rev rate player. I am using a Tornado I bought 6 weeks ago. Me and my 500+ rev rate with my Tornado is doing ALOT less oil absorbing than anyone with their high end balls. On the THS I bowl on, and it is not a long or high volume pattern, I move all of around 3-5 boards with my feet all night whereas anybody, including the guy with the 225 rev rate using his sanded Taboo. is frying up the area between 7-12 with no clue as to what he is doing. He shoots 580 and scratching his head while I have been averaging around 250 for the past 5-6 weeks.
The bowler has very little to do with burning up the oil. It is 90% the bowling balls being used. The remaining 10% is the bowler not understanding that on a THS, they dont need the high end ball unless they throw it 20mph. MOST bowlers are typically 17ish off their hand, so those people can get away with balls in the mid price point and their biggest hooking ball.
The ONLY reason you should be frustrated with the bowler is because of their lack of knowledge as to what balls they should be using on the given conditions.
Peace doesnt always have to be silent.
Post by: Impending Doom on January 23, 2012, 09:29:20 AM
*Inventor of the FIBJAM*
The sky is falling
The end is near
The final warning
The sun disappears.
My arsenal
Post by: mainzer on January 23, 2012, 10:46:33 AM
I disagree sir.
The only way I can play straighter in the track to start the night is with a very very weak AfterMath Pearl or Urethane. This is a House shot the outsides are bone dry the hook spot as been established before a shot has been throwen. Any cranker would be nuts to stand in the track and try to play up the dry boards to start when that part of the lane is already been dried out...by the lane machine.
I understand what you are saying no question but some houses are so dry in the track that a cranker can not get near it, it would force them in away from that area, Now I understand starting at 5th arrow is not the answer, I have three crankers on my team including me and we like start around 3 arrow or at the deepest about about 18 at the arrows and work our way in. This does two things, we have plenty have ability to move right and it will begin to take away a strokers line which will help us win points in later games.
MainzerPower
Post by: trash heap on January 23, 2012, 11:35:02 AM
Mainzer,
What bowling balls are you and your team throwing on this condition?
Post by: mainzer on January 23, 2012, 11:51:35 AM
Depending on how deep we start a polished Requiem, BlackOut with a six inch pin or
Euphoria for me.Jason starts with No Mercy that has a crap ton of games on or
Hole Finder Solid again with a ton of games and it has been lane polished, Dusty starts with a Elevate.
Dusty has the by far the most hand due to an onorthodox release, I am in second on
the rev meter, and Jason is a very close third, the Requiem has amazing length when
polished ceases to be the monster it is when dull.
MainzerPower
Post by: six pack on January 23, 2012, 12:30:21 PM
Scott,the Ogre SS was a great ball,wish I kept mine. I just started using my slate blue gargoyle and love the reaction.
The harder I try the harder they fall
Post by: tywithay on January 23, 2012, 01:28:13 PM
I have a pretty high rev rate and on my house shot, I rarely have to move more than 2-3 boards in a 3 game set. Unless everyone is throwing nanos on old wood lanes, I just really cannot see the pattern drying that much, that fast. To me it sounds more like an argument of not knowing how to adjust though really. If the outside is that dry, switch to plastic. That much friction and nobody should have a problem getting back to the hole.
I'm sure the "super crankers" were probably using weaker bowling balls than you "normal" bowlers anyhow. If the "normal" bowlers are throwing down and in with super absorbent hook monsters, then I would say that the "normal" bowlers ruin the condition.
Post by: Gene J Kanak on January 23, 2012, 02:04:39 PM
I think that statement oversimplifies things a bit. Yes, a pair with a lot of high-rev players will tend to transition more quickly than a pair with straighter players. If you don't believe that, watch USBC's webcasts of the men's collegiate singles events as opposed to the women's events. The guys, with their higher rev rates, end up making a lot of those patterns look ugly because they're all trying their own thing. The ladies tend to play straighter and from similar lines, so they end up breaking the pattern in nicely. In any event, just because there are high-rev players, that doesn't necessarily mean that the shot will be ruined. If those high-rev players are all playing the lanes similiary and properly, the transition can quickly cause the pair to become super-walled and easy. That's why the PBA telecasts always discuss how players were breaking the pattern down during the practice time. It's also why the great USBC Open Championships teams openly discuss how they all commit to breaking the pattern down together. They take some lumps early on, but once they create some hook to the right and hold to the left (for right-handers), they all just start whacking away! So, basically, it's not about high-rev vs. low-rev. It's about everyone playing the lanes properly. If you can get everyone to do that, you will often find a very nice playing environment for people of all styles!
Another year, another arsenal of bowling balls, and I'm still a standard house hack!
http://members.bowl.com/SearchUSBC/ViewMember.aspx?prefix=519&suffix=9130
Post by: rhbowling07 on January 23, 2012, 02:59:36 PM
**Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.**