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Author Topic: DAMN SANDBAGGERS  (Read 2800 times)

xwingnut

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DAMN SANDBAGGERS
« on: April 29, 2004, 11:16:58 PM »
Last night I had to bowl against the biggest bagger I have ever seen. He is averaging 153 for our league but the last 1/4 of the he is consistantly shooting big scores. Last week he shot 289 ,252, & 210. Last night 280, 225. He seems to be turning it on at will. Now that I'm threw whineing is there any way to stop him from using the low average when he is obviously bagging to keep it there? He bowls handicap tourneys and I dont think its fair to the people that actually try every game. It has really taken some of the fun out of bowling when you know its going to happen!!
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O

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Re: DAMN SANDBAGGERS
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2004, 02:46:07 PM »
Not only is that bagging, it's blatent bagging.  I would confront him about it.  If he is set in his ways I would notify the ABC.  There are a few guys that are well-known in the midwest for pulling such stunts and have been re-rated often, but they at least managed to keep there averages in the high 170's.  150 is rediculous.  I would guess that even if he isn't turned in, it is only a matter of time before he gains a reputation and is banned from or forced to bowl scratch in hncdp tourney's
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Moe

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Re: DAMN SANDBAGGERS
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2004, 01:04:51 PM »
Maybe he just learned how to bowl... or fixed a timing issue fixed his approach etc...  Maybe he had not bowled in years.

Why is it that when someone bowls much higher than there average they have to be considered "sandbaggers" and be littled by the bowlers who cant bowl as high as them.  Or the guys that have teh 200+ average and are just struggling and complain about "the bagger" and use him to vent.

Sure there are some cases that have been mentioned here, that you could take action over.  But why not give someone teh benifit of the doubt?
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Moe

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Re: DAMN SANDBAGGERS
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2004, 01:25:32 PM »
People have called me a bagger, because i can shoot 120-140's all day.  And then next game break out 200+ games.  Its not that i do this on purpose it just kinda happens.  I struggle and cant hit the borad side of a barn, then next game, i get dialed in and take off.

Does that make me a bagger?  I think not, that just shows that i am a novice bowler.  Who can bowl well when i find a mark and pay attention to what im doing.


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freezeback32

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Re: DAMN SANDBAGGERS
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2004, 01:26:02 PM »
I doubt that this person suddenly improved that much. Most anyone I know of with that low of an average might pull out such scores maybe twice a year. The easiest way for me to tell a bagger is to watch them tank spares when their team is going to win a game, it's very easy to spot. I am a higher average bowler and bowl two scratch leagues a week and scratch in every tourny I bowl. I do bowl in one handicap league with my father in law a week to get him out of the house. There are several in this league who are blatant. I give them crap every time I see them tank a spare on purpose. I do it in front of everybody. They get all red faced but can't deny it because they they know me and know I know. Its fun to push these loser's buttons.
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Doc Hollywood

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Re: DAMN SANDBAGGERS
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2004, 01:36:28 PM »
I would probably say that the 150 average guy that has been bowling those high scores is a bagger.

However if his bowling style changes or if the lane condition changes to his favor it is possible for him to bowl better.  I know of a few guys in one of my leagues that is a 180+ bowler.  He hit a few tournaments where the shot was totally diferent and he averaged 110+ another guy who was averaging the same was able to shoot 220+ just because the lane condition was to his benefit.

It could be classified as bagging but then again it could be that some people go into a different mindset.  I know that I have read by some of the bowlers on this site that even though they bowl well in league they bowl much better in tournaments because they like the added pressure where as league is just fun.

I know in one league we bowl second squad and that is also after open play.  The heads are fried across the lane and if you don't have some ball speed you can't score well.  The lane conditons are spotty where you see the ball check up early and then skid and then hook again.  It is dificult to score well.  But learning how to bowl through that and learning to adjust faster often makes you a better bowler on a tournament condition because the shot is more consistent.  In away it is similar to bowling on a sport shot.  The sport shot is tough and if you learn to bowl well on a sport shot it should make you a better tournament bowler.

I know I went way off track but I just wanted to shed some light on bowlers.

If this guy goes to the tournament one could approach the tournament directors and have him watched.  You could show his league stats as well.  If someone were to look up his past tournament scores and their were enough of them then an average could be derived and then have him rerated.  Also I know that some tournaments that they split the brackets into two averages. 190 and below and 190 and above.




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Moe

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Re: DAMN SANDBAGGERS
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2004, 01:41:19 PM »
See Doc that is what im talkin about, giving someone the benifit of the doubt... why cant anyone else do that?  Instead they just vent because the 150 average bowler found a shot and they coudlnt bowl a 600 series.  And possibly for a few weeks that shot is still there, and they continue to score.

I just dont like to jump to conclusions, thats just me.
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Brickguy221

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Re: DAMN SANDBAGGERS
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2004, 02:01:33 PM »
Quote
...."People have called me a bagger, because i can shoot 120-140's all day. And then next game break out 200+ games. Its not that i do this on purpose it just kinda happens. I struggle and cant hit the borad side of a barn, then next game, i get dialed in and take off."
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Moe, I know the feeling exactly. As for how I've bowled all year this year, you described my game perfectly for the 2003-2004 season. Worse year I've had since the late 80's - early 90's.

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9andaWiggle

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Re: DAMN SANDBAGGERS
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2004, 02:02:10 PM »
So, he took your money again eh?

 
quote:
He is averaging 153 for our league but the last 1/4 of the he is consistantly shooting big scores.


Here is what I think...  If he's bowled 3/4 of the league and just now is bowling out his behind in the last 1/4, then I'd say there's reasonable suspicion.  Especially if he's bowled more than 3 years. Enough to get in his grill about?  Not without some research.

Say he's an improving bowler.  Then you should see a trend throughout the year that his average has been steadily climbing as he gains experience.  Or, if you could pinpoint a jump based on a new ball or bowling lessons.  However, I don't know of many people who HONESTLY average 153 on a THS that can magically come out and shoot the scores this dude mentioned just because of a new ball or different lane condition (and if they made the lane condition super easy to get league bowlers back next year, you should have seen about a dozen or better 300's thrown by various 200+ avg bowlers).  Some information is missing, but there's enough here I would be suspicious.  But do some research before making a scene.  Besides, I can guarantee you there will be more than just ONE sandbagger entering those handicapped tourneys.  The best way to avoid this nonsense is to just bowl scratch.


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JOE FALCO

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Re: DAMN SANDBAGGERS
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2004, 02:05:49 PM »
If a bowler shoots 152 for ¾ of the season .. then goes to 200+ for the last ¼ and you say IT'S NOT SAND-BAGGING .. then I say YOU ARE PRETTY GULLIBLE!
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Moe

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Re: DAMN SANDBAGGERS
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2004, 02:10:28 PM »
If his team has no chance of winning, then it really doesnt matter does it?  If he isnt entered in over average or any other side bets involving money then who cares.  

If you are crying just because he "beat" you, but your team still won and he is a bagger get over it.

Brickguy:  Your welcome.  

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JOE FALCO

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Re: DAMN SANDBAGGERS
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2004, 02:15:52 PM »
MOE .. somehow I think you are missing the point of the oringinal posting .. the concern is .. not in the league .. but when the bowler in question goes on to HANDICAP TOURNAMENTS!
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Moe

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Re: DAMN SANDBAGGERS
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2004, 02:29:54 PM »
Yea... i think so too

But i just get tired of reading all of these rants, about similar stuff.  And i just go off on my own mini-rant...  
 

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Juggernaut

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Re: DAMN SANDBAGGERS
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2004, 03:01:52 PM »
I've never been a bagger in my life, but this year, due to personal conflicts, my game really sucked early on.  My concentration and desire just werent there, so I started out with the lowest average I've had in years, a 192.

  Now, as the year winds down, I have hit my stride.  While the guys who know me know I wouldn't do it, lots of younger, newer bowlers have raised the question of whether I was bagging or not.

  It would be easy to blame me, if not for having a history of not doing it. I am now shooting 700 on a regular basis, and have raised my average back up to 212.  Some of them are even mad at me because I am leading in a category that almost embarasses me--most improved. LOL

 Me, most improved?  Yea, this year I guess so.  I normally carry about a 215-220 average.  I didn't bowl on Sundays until the last half of the year and averaged 228 there.  So some point to that as both proof I am bagging, and proof I'm not.  Just depends on how you feel about me personally I guess.
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JOE FALCO

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Re: DAMN SANDBAGGERS
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2004, 03:28:36 PM »
JAB .. 212 finish puts 212 on your ABC card .. doesn't look like SAND-BAGGING to me .. if you started league with 215 then dropped to 195 .. does anybody remember how many time you (might have) hurt the team? NO that's not one of the BAD GUYS .. shooting 152 for most of the league then suddenly shifting to 200+ IS A BAD GUY!
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