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Author Topic: Definition of overkill  (Read 5704 times)

Impending Doom

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Definition of overkill
« on: February 15, 2018, 12:38:36 PM »
Let's have a vocabulary lesson here.

Definition of overkill
1 : a destructive capacity greatly exceeding that required for a given target
2 : an excess of something (such as a quantity or an action) beyond what is required or suitable for a particular purpose.

Now, the majority of us are bowling on some sort of modified house shot. I promise most of us aren't bowling on real heavy flat patterns all of the time. If you are, then this doesn't apply to you.

Your new high end toy is overkill. Your new Jackal Rising, your DCT, your Sure Lock, Mako, Paradox Black, etc etc etc. They're all overkill.

You.
Do.
Not.
Need.
Them.

As the consumer listening to your PSO, you hear "This ball hooks more than last week's hook monster" and automatically think that it's going to hook circles around your previous hook monster.

Chances are, it's not going to.

It's going to be overkill. It's going to suck. And it's not the balls fault. It's yours.

Justin Wi puts together some great videos. His "biggest" hooking layout on assyms is 70*5*70. Notice he isn't trying to play up the track? Why is that?

Very rarely have I seen a ball that honestly is garbage. I've seen it, but nowadays, it's rare. The person is just not using it on the right condition. You are using a nuke to ferret out a groundhog, then get upset when the nuke destroys everything around it.

Rising is early. DCT is early. They're not meant to bounce off the friction. They're meant to slow down as soon as possible. That's what the cover dictates. Slow down asap when you hit the FLOOD.

Please, people. Stop buying a high end ball and expect it to hook circles around your older ball.

I'll even give you a personal experience, to show that even knowledgeable people fall victim to this phenomenon.

I have an Incinerate. F90, strongest cover ever used out of San Antonio. Drilled mine weak (70*5*35) and took it to the heaviest oiled house within 3 counties.

I threw it 6 frames. Haven't thrown it since. Next time I bowl a first squad at a tournament, I'll bring it. Until then, it stays on the shelf.

Now, if it's the biggest ball in the bag, why don't I take it everywhere?? IT'S MY MOST HOOKING BALL!

Because I do not see enough volume anywhere to use it. Too much surface, too much flare, too much ball. Houses around me, I can barely use S70. I'm actually more comfortable with the S60 range or lower. Drift, X, maybe my Dream On if I need to wheel.

Once you reach a point of saturation, you aren't going to have an enjoyable time. News flash, you DO have friction you can use. Don't lie to me. The newest set of snow tires isn't going to help you cover more boards on a house shot. It's akin to having chains on your tires in the summer. You're just going to destroy the pavement.

Stop. Just.stop. 99% of the time, it's not the balls fault. It's yours. It's not your fault, you just fall under the wheels of the Hype machine, which is what the ball companies hope. Keep that revenue coming in!!

 

Steven

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Re: Definition of overkill
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2018, 09:48:52 PM »
overkill: starting another thread when there’s a very active thread about the same exact topic



And yet, it bears repeating.

 
It absolutely does. Because the "message" is being lost on several in that other thread. I love your premise/argument starting off this topic. Nice job.

And I’m one of them. I can disagree with you in this thread just as easily as the other one.

I’m a high speed high rev bowler that’s slightly speed dominant. And on the house shots around here with my style, a Mastermind has made me plenty of money.

It’s great that you guys don’t need anything more than a Hyroad, really, it is. My Hyroad was shit, it doesn’t wrinkle if it catches any oil. Not everyone bowls on YOUR house shot. People disagreeing with your opinion doesn’t mean your message was lost. It could conceivably mean your generalization doesn’t always hold true.

On MY local coiffed house shots, starting with an IQ Tour or similar and balling up to a solid asym as I move in is a strong strategy for people with higher ball speed.
 


 
Disagree all you'd like. What's important is what's true for most bowlers on most conditions most of the time. The generalized answer is that a mid-performance ball or lower is going to be the better choice in the majority of situations.
 
The fact that you're a high speed high rev bowler makes you more the exception than the rule. Your needs are going to be different. I acknowledged those kind of variables in the other thread. No need to be defensive about it.

six pack

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Re: Definition of overkill
« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2018, 09:59:59 PM »
one thing I noticed is bowler's with these hook monsters don't play to the friction,they blow out the blend to the point it's dirt from 20 to 0.
The harder I try the harder they fall

six pack

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Re: Definition of overkill
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2018, 10:05:07 PM »
How's a 70*5*35 considered a weak layout?
The harder I try the harder they fall

HackJandy

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Re: Definition of overkill
« Reply #34 on: February 15, 2018, 10:05:18 PM »
> Houses around me, I can barely use S70

Wow must be nice.  I have to use a grey scotch brite on my HB to use it in most the houses around here.  High tilt sucks.
Kind of noob when made this account so take advice with grain of salt.

Impending Doom

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Re: Definition of overkill
« Reply #35 on: February 16, 2018, 12:27:54 AM »
> Houses around me, I can barely use S70

Wow must be nice.  I have to use a grey scotch brite on my HB to use it in most the houses around here.  High tilt sucks.

Well, I have a lot of tilt too, but also axis rotation as well, so if I can sniff any friction, it's going to be ok for me.

Impending Doom

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Re: Definition of overkill
« Reply #36 on: February 16, 2018, 12:32:04 AM »
How's a 70*5*35 considered a weak layout?

Well, weaker than going 40*4*70 with a p4 hole. I knew from my Darkness that the core flares a ton, so I was looking to get it to respond a bit quicker to friction than going with my normal 50*5*65 on symmetrical balls. I took my experience with my Darkness (4.5*65 with a low hole) and didn't want the same reaction with a much stronger cover.

My bad, though. Thing still flares a ton. Should have called it the Shimwrecker lol

HankScorpio

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Re: Definition of overkill
« Reply #37 on: February 16, 2018, 06:37:48 AM »
overkill: starting another thread when there’s a very active thread about the same exact topic



And yet, it bears repeating.

 
It absolutely does. Because the "message" is being lost on several in that other thread. I love your premise/argument starting off this topic. Nice job.

And I’m one of them. I can disagree with you in this thread just as easily as the other one.

I’m a high speed high rev bowler that’s slightly speed dominant. And on the house shots around here with my style, a Mastermind has made me plenty of money.

It’s great that you guys don’t need anything more than a Hyroad, really, it is. My Hyroad was shit, it doesn’t wrinkle if it catches any oil. Not everyone bowls on YOUR house shot. People disagreeing with your opinion doesn’t mean your message was lost. It could conceivably mean your generalization doesn’t always hold true.

On MY local coiffed house shots, starting with an IQ Tour or similar and balling up to a solid asym as I move in is a strong strategy for people with higher ball speed.
 


 
Disagree all you'd like. What's important is what's true for most bowlers on most conditions most of the time. The generalized answer is that a mid-performance ball or lower is going to be the better choice in the majority of situations.
 
The fact that you're a high speed high rev bowler makes you more the exception than the rule. Your needs are going to be different. I acknowledged those kind of variables in the other thread. No need to be defensive about it.

My point is it’s not the exception around here. Any speed dominant bowler does the same thing.

It’s not defensive, it’s for a purpose. Generalized advice like this (and don’t bring 6 balls to league, etc etc) all go against the most important rules of bowling: take advice from your PSO for the conditions you see, not from the internet. I spent years battling myself because of what I “learned” on the internet.

spmcgivern

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Re: Definition of overkill
« Reply #38 on: February 16, 2018, 08:11:38 AM »
overkill: starting another thread when there’s a very active thread about the same exact topic



And yet, it bears repeating.

 
It absolutely does. Because the "message" is being lost on several in that other thread. I love your premise/argument starting off this topic. Nice job.

And I’m one of them. I can disagree with you in this thread just as easily as the other one.

I’m a high speed high rev bowler that’s slightly speed dominant. And on the house shots around here with my style, a Mastermind has made me plenty of money.

It’s great that you guys don’t need anything more than a Hyroad, really, it is. My Hyroad was shit, it doesn’t wrinkle if it catches any oil. Not everyone bowls on YOUR house shot. People disagreeing with your opinion doesn’t mean your message was lost. It could conceivably mean your generalization doesn’t always hold true.

On MY local coiffed house shots, starting with an IQ Tour or similar and balling up to a solid asym as I move in is a strong strategy for people with higher ball speed.
 


 
Disagree all you'd like. What's important is what's true for most bowlers on most conditions most of the time. The generalized answer is that a mid-performance ball or lower is going to be the better choice in the majority of situations.
 
The fact that you're a high speed high rev bowler makes you more the exception than the rule. Your needs are going to be different. I acknowledged those kind of variables in the other thread. No need to be defensive about it.

My point is it’s not the exception around here. Any speed dominant bowler does the same thing.

It’s not defensive, it’s for a purpose. Generalized advice like this (and don’t bring 6 balls to league, etc etc) all go against the most important rules of bowling: take advice from your PSO for the conditions you see, not from the internet. I spent years battling myself because of what I “learned” on the internet.

When I went to school, we had a class in my senior year devoted to "rules of thumb" answers to problems.  Everyone knew the answer wasn't as rigorous as filling out 3 pages of formulas and such to come up with an answer.  But the rule of thumb got you in a great starting point.

The same could be said here.  People come to the website for knowledge.  They come here perhaps because they are having problems and may not have access to reliable pro shop knowledge.  And for those people, the OP's statement is extremely valuable.  Starting with medium level equipment is what 99% of bowlers should be doing when approaching any THS, even yours.

The medium equipment may not be the best choice.  Perhaps 3 pages of formulas (or years of experimentation) is needed to nail down the ultimate best choice, but it doesn't eliminate the value of the information here.

If we were to poke holes in any statement on the internet based on a minuscule number of exceptions, then there is no reason to post at all.  Add your experience, but don't belittle the experiences of others.

giddyupddp

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Re: Definition of overkill
« Reply #39 on: February 16, 2018, 08:26:19 AM »
overkill: starting another thread when there’s a very active thread about the same exact topic



And yet, it bears repeating.

 
It absolutely does. Because the "message" is being lost on several in that other thread. I love your premise/argument starting off this topic. Nice job.

And I’m one of them. I can disagree with you in this thread just as easily as the other one.

I’m a high speed high rev bowler that’s slightly speed dominant. And on the house shots around here with my style, a Mastermind has made me plenty of money.

It’s great that you guys don’t need anything more than a Hyroad, really, it is. My Hyroad was shit, it doesn’t wrinkle if it catches any oil. Not everyone bowls on YOUR house shot. People disagreeing with your opinion doesn’t mean your message was lost. It could conceivably mean your generalization doesn’t always hold true.

On MY local coiffed house shots, starting with an IQ Tour or similar and balling up to a solid asym as I move in is a strong strategy for people with higher ball speed.
 


 
Disagree all you'd like. What's important is what's true for most bowlers on most conditions most of the time. The generalized answer is that a mid-performance ball or lower is going to be the better choice in the majority of situations.
 
The fact that you're a high speed high rev bowler makes you more the exception than the rule. Your needs are going to be different. I acknowledged those kind of variables in the other thread. No need to be defensive about it.

My point is it’s not the exception around here. Any speed dominant bowler does the same thing.

It’s not defensive, it’s for a purpose. Generalized advice like this (and don’t bring 6 balls to league, etc etc) all go against the most important rules of bowling: take advice from your PSO for the conditions you see, not from the internet. I spent years battling myself because of what I “learned” on the internet.

+1 the last post above
I'm the idiot who brings 6 to league and a lot of people generalize saying only idiots need to bring that many to league on THS. Last nite on THS using Hustle Ink 225, 226 first 2 and game 3 I generally ball down in this house to a deep freeze, this week it didnt work as it couldnt hold in dry and left 2 weak tens moving in and thru 5 had 2 splits and 76 in 5th, decided to ball up using a ball that hasnt seen light of day since last september, sky rocket saved the game with 5 strikes in a row as it was able to carry from deep where the other ball could not. If I went by the THS rule only need 2 or 3 I would have shot  150. So in general sure THS doesnt require 6 balls but I like having options. I spent the $ so I bring them and dont give a rats ass what other bowlers think about it.

And the generalization we never need the hook monsters, I bowl another house that put new lanes in where friction is low and the THS is tight now and have gotten a  lot of use out of my Motiv Ghost that sat in the bag for a year never seeing light of day until 1/4 way thru this season for THS.

So generalizations are just that and I dont go through life  or bowling following them..... :o

avabob

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Re: Definition of overkill
« Reply #40 on: February 16, 2018, 08:49:55 AM »
Bottom line you can't buy a game.   I buy several balls a year, but I don't do trying to fill in every possible hole in my arsenal.  Drives me nuts when guys start a thread asking for a ball recommendation between the x ball and y ball.  This isn't golf where every incremental up or down in an iron produces a measurable difference in distance and height. 

JazlarVonSteich

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Re: Definition of overkill
« Reply #41 on: February 16, 2018, 09:46:10 AM »
Bottom line you can't buy a game.   I buy several balls a year, but I don't do trying to fill in every possible hole in my arsenal.  Drives me nuts when guys start a thread asking for a ball recommendation between the x ball and y ball.  This isn't golf where every incremental up or down in an iron produces a measurable difference in distance and height.

On house shots, I agree with this. On sport shots, there is an argument against this.

HackJandy

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Re: Definition of overkill
« Reply #42 on: February 16, 2018, 10:17:45 AM »
Bottom line you can't buy a game.   I buy several balls a year, but I don't do trying to fill in every possible hole in my arsenal.  Drives me nuts when guys start a thread asking for a ball recommendation between the x ball and y ball.  This isn't golf where every incremental up or down in an iron produces a measurable difference in distance and height.

On house shots, I agree with this. On sport shots, there is an argument against this.

True but people bowling on sport shots are probably the ones usually to answer the questions not ask them.
Kind of noob when made this account so take advice with grain of salt.

Steven

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Re: Definition of overkill
« Reply #43 on: February 16, 2018, 10:51:32 AM »

True but people bowling on sport shots are probably the ones usually to answer the questions not ask them.

 
I'm not sure I understand what this means.

HackJandy

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Re: Definition of overkill
« Reply #44 on: February 16, 2018, 10:53:09 AM »

True but people bowling on sport shots are probably the ones usually to answer the questions not ask them.

 
I'm not sure I understand what this means.

Was trying to say most people on sport shots have a pretty good idea what balls to get for the fine tuning they need to do but guess it is a reach.  Not all are ball junkies.
Kind of noob when made this account so take advice with grain of salt.

Juggernaut

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Re: Definition of overkill
« Reply #45 on: February 16, 2018, 11:02:25 AM »

Lesson to be learned.  Develop an effective release that will allow you to hit the pocket with most of the balls in your bag.  Then learn how to fine tune your carry using the different equipment. 

 Ain’t nobody got time for that!

 Why the heck should they have to learn anything when they can “buy it in a box”?
Learn to laugh, and love, and smile, cause we’re only here for a little while.