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Author Topic: Definition of Sport League  (Read 8564 times)

dR3w

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Definition of Sport League
« on: May 23, 2014, 11:25:57 AM »
I have a quick question for anyone in the know.  This year our Thursday night league used the Kegel Challenge shots.  I was told by one of the workers at the Alley, that next year we won't be able to do that again, unless we declare ourselves a Sport League.  (apparently this was mandated from AMF/Bowlmor Management.  Of course you never know about such things). 

My contention is that I thought the definition of a sport shot was a ratio of less than 3 to 1.  The Kegel Challenge shots are in the range of about 4 to 1 (more or less). 

Is there a clear definition here?  Or can you declare any shot a sport shot and pay the extra money required to sanction it as a sport league?

 

dR3w

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spmcgivern

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Re: Definition of Sport League
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2014, 12:32:07 PM »
I think the issue comes from having a more difficult shot and not registering the league as such.  The issue may be bowlers establishing lower averages for handicap purposes and by having the league labeled and run as a "Sport Shot League" there is less of an issue.  Sport shot averages have an additional number of pins that would be added for handicap purposes in non sport shot tournaments (but most know this already).

My guess is once the league is run as a sport shot league (with appropriate inspections) the number of participants will be reduced or the shot will revert to THS.

dR3w

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Re: Definition of Sport League
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2014, 12:37:02 PM »
According to the Sport League document I linked to, a sport shot HAS to be 3-1 or less.  The Kegel Challenge shots are higher ratio's than that.  So regardless of the whole handicap issue, which I firmly understand, I don't think the league CAN call itself a sport shot league, since it doesn't meet the criteria. 

Now if Bowlmor/AMF has an issue with sandbagging or the people who run the center don't want to have the lane man push a different button on the machine every week, that is a whole different story.  I just want to have my ducks in-a-row when the league tries to challenge this next fall.

Gizmo823

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Re: Definition of Sport League
« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2014, 12:39:33 PM »
You can declare it a sport league without being sport certified.  Sport leagues are generally accepted to be tougher patterns, you'll find most people won't care TOO much whether it's actually sport certified or not, but it's a better descriptor to people who may be signing up without knowing it's going to be a tougher shot.  I think that's all they're getting at is that they don't want someone to sign up thinking it's a house shot and then get pissed that the shot is "different" or that it "sucks." 
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milorafferty

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Re: Definition of Sport League
« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2014, 12:42:56 PM »
If you declare it a Sport league, then everyone has to have a Sport membership.

And there is where the bitching will start, having to pay the few extra dollars($10) for the membership upgrade is equivalent to nuclear winter for most bowlers.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 12:44:35 PM by milorafferty »
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amyers2002

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Re: Definition of Sport League
« Reply #6 on: May 23, 2014, 01:12:10 PM »
it amazes me how much people will complain about $10 dollars over the course of multiple weeks. I really don't understand these guys that walk around with a six ball roller and $1000 bucks invested in balls and then complain about the USBC or sport league dues.

Gizmo823

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Re: Definition of Sport League
« Reply #7 on: May 23, 2014, 02:20:30 PM »
Ah, gotcha.  I suppose I meant that if you title the league, "Sport - something" you don't have to have a sport membership.  We've had PBA leagues the last several summers that have been sanctioned, but not sport sanctioned.  I think you can use whatever shots you want to for a league but don't have to be sport sanctioned even the patterns do happen to qualify. 

YES.  I want to suggest to increase the cost of one of my scratch leagues to get more money in the pot, but it's absolutely amazing how many people swear it would break them or render them unable to bowl due to a dollar or two increase in weekly dues . .

If you declare it a Sport league, then everyone has to have a Sport membership.

And there is where the bitching will start, having to pay the few extra dollars($10) for the membership upgrade is equivalent to nuclear winter for most bowlers.
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Dave81644

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Re: Definition of Sport League
« Reply #8 on: May 23, 2014, 04:40:56 PM »
Ours is called a "challenge" league
and its listed that way on bowl.com
i report this for tournaments im in.
The state tournament here in Wisconsin looked at me funny when i mentioned that
that had nothing to say about it, i was already higher that if i would have used a sport adjusted average, but i expected some kind of response

Dave81644

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Re: Definition of Sport League
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2014, 04:42:07 PM »
And - sport certified leagues have to run tapes after every league session
something very few places are willing to do as its a PITA

MI 2 AZ

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Re: Definition of Sport League
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2014, 07:57:16 PM »
And - sport certified leagues have to run tapes after every league session
something very few places are willing to do as its a PITA

Ours were done before we bowled and if the tapes were not in compliance for a sport pattern, then all the bowlers had to sign a waiver stating that we were not eligible to win any sport awards, before we started the league bowling. 
« Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 07:59:32 PM by MI 2 AZ »
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avabob

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Re: Definition of Sport League
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2014, 11:01:52 AM »
We bowl a singles sport league that uses qualifying patterns.  However this season the bowlers opted to not sanction it as a sport league, and put the upgrade fees into the prize fund.   

Mighty Fish

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Re: Definition of Sport League
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2014, 09:47:50 PM »
It should be a major concern when a league puts out a Sport shot without actually certifying as a Sport league. That allows bowlers to establish a certified average less than their THS ability without actually sandbagging, and that would certainly allow some bowlers a big advantage in handicap competition, especially if they bowl only in such a league.

avabob

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Re: Definition of Sport League
« Reply #13 on: May 26, 2014, 10:34:42 AM »
Why is that any different than just bowling in a tough house ( yes there are still a few of them around ).  Also the league I am talking about is a summer league. 

Truthfully, the line between sport bowling and house shots as far as scoring goes is getting blurry as more and more bowlers get comfortable with sport leagues.  Most guys who want to be scratch bowlers are seeking out tournament patterns to hone their game.  Yes, I know there are a still a lot of guys who like to have a few beers and shoot big numbers.  They aren't the guys who are bowling scratch tournaments.

Dave81644

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Re: Definition of Sport League
« Reply #14 on: May 26, 2014, 10:45:09 AM »
It should be a major concern when a league puts out a Sport shot without actually certifying as a Sport league. That allows bowlers to establish a certified average less than their THS ability without actually sandbagging, and that would certainly allow some bowlers a big advantage in handicap competition, especially if they bowl only in such a league.

i am in 1 of those leagues your reference, (well technically, not all the patterns are sport compliant) So, its a challenge league, its for people who want to get better.
typically, we have a short,medium and long pattern and then NATS
teaches you to play different parts of the lane.
i would say that most of us bowl another night or more and have a higher THS average
i haven't heard of anyone in that league over the course of 4 years ever mention that.
And its listed on bowl.com as a challenge league
i reported my challenge league average to my state tournament officials and they looked at me funny, they said, "whats your last years high average?"
I bowl scratch anyways, so it was a moot point