BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: ITZPS on April 16, 2015, 10:41:08 AM
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I'd say this was a perfect example of how not to play the lanes down there. After watching Vermilyea's group do as well as you can reasonably expect on those conditions, these guys did just about the opposite. Derek figured it out and got lined up for singles and bowled well, Dan threw the ball well for the most part, but Tim was frustrating to watch. It looks like they got too deep too quickly, were trying to keep the ball too close to the pocket, and were being much too firm. Once Derek softened up and looped it more, he did much better. I didn't initially think creating angle was going to be your friend down there, but it appears to be the opposite. Being soft and smooth and just floating it out there looks to be the best way to do it, being firm just caused way too much over/under, and getting too deep too quick down there looks like it causes carrydown to the right, but still stays dry inside, which makes the over/under even worse. For comparison:
Vermilyea's group:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EE_eRgDIjI
Eoff's group:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fm7S4FLmAg
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Have you bowled there yet? Its easy to draw conclusions at home. I bowled and I agree with some of what you said.
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No, but I agree it's easy to draw conclusions when you haven't been there. I'm just trying to draw as much information from what I'm seeing as possible. Everyone has agreed though that they had a different look on the tournament lanes than they even had on the showcase lanes (which is usually the case), so I'm not putting much stock into anything but what I'm seeing is working and not working for others.
Early on, it was stay right and let the shot come to you, but after watching guys struggle staying right and then doing well when they moved deep and never getting left of 4th arrow, it changed a bit. Then Vermilyea's group looked to me like they handled it the best. Some friends of mine bowled team right next to them and said their team set was impressive too. Eoff's group looked like they overcorrected and got too deep too quick.
What were your conclusions?
Have you bowled there yet? Its easy to draw conclusions at home. I bowled and I agree with some of what you said.
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No, but I agree it's easy to draw conclusions when you haven't been there. I'm just trying to draw as much information from what I'm seeing as possible. Everyone has agreed though that they had a different look on the tournament lanes than they even had on the showcase lanes (which is usually the case), so I'm not putting much stock into anything but what I'm seeing is working and not working for others.
Early on, it was stay right and let the shot come to you, but after watching guys struggle staying right and then doing well when they moved deep and never getting left of 4th arrow, it changed a bit. Then Vermilyea's group looked to me like they handled it the best. Some friends of mine bowled team right next to them and said their team set was impressive too. Eoff's group looked like they overcorrected and got too deep too quick.
What were your conclusions?
Have you bowled there yet? Its easy to draw conclusions at home. I bowled and I agree with some of what you said.
The BJ/Showcase are much tighter than the convention center I had sets ranging from 590-629 at the BJ. The convention lanes let you play where you want. Im 17.2 MPH/420 rev rate with too much left to right in my game. I struggled because I was a "team player" playing right of 5, even though it felt like I was bowling in a phone booth. We finished with 3029 and left in 10th place in team. We broke them down around 2-3-4 in practice and moved in around 7 to start, we ended up at about 4th arrow give or take depending on the player.
Our ball choices ranged from GB2, Asylum, IQ Nano, Ultimate Inferno, Rumble ,505T with surface and/or pin down. You're going to have to be a shot maker and be in command of your speed. There isn't much shape to the pattern so speed control is paramount.
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Ok, that makes sense. We don't go until later in June, so I've got plenty of time, but I'm in a similar boat with you as far as speed and rev rate. Preferred rev rate anyway. I don't like playing right, but I can play straight up 3 comfortably, but move me into playing straight up 8 or playing a little swing and I get really uncomfortable. I will have to work on that. 3029 is a super solid score this year, nice job. I'm good with speed control, but I'm the best at staying soft and rolling the ball, which usually puts me a bit deeper than everyone else. I just don't want to get there too soon and make the over/under worse. Must practice . .
No, but I agree it's easy to draw conclusions when you haven't been there. I'm just trying to draw as much information from what I'm seeing as possible. Everyone has agreed though that they had a different look on the tournament lanes than they even had on the showcase lanes (which is usually the case), so I'm not putting much stock into anything but what I'm seeing is working and not working for others.
Early on, it was stay right and let the shot come to you, but after watching guys struggle staying right and then doing well when they moved deep and never getting left of 4th arrow, it changed a bit. Then Vermilyea's group looked to me like they handled it the best. Some friends of mine bowled team right next to them and said their team set was impressive too. Eoff's group looked like they overcorrected and got too deep too quick.
What were your conclusions?
Have you bowled there yet? Its easy to draw conclusions at home. I bowled and I agree with some of what you said.
The BJ/Showcase are much tighter than the convention center I had sets ranging from 590-629 at the BJ. The convention lanes let you play where you want. Im 17.2 MPH/420 rev rate with too much left to right in my game. I struggled because I was a "team player" playing right of 5, even though it felt like I was bowling in a phone booth. We finished with 3029 and left in 10th place in team. We broke them down around 2-3-4 in practice and moved in around 7 to start, we ended up at about 4th arrow give or take depending on the player.
Our ball choices ranged from GB2, Asylum, IQ Nano, Ultimate Inferno, Rumble ,505T with surface and/or pin down. You're going to have to be a shot maker and be in command of your speed. There isn't much shape to the pattern so speed control is paramount.
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Watched several different groups online for sig/dbls and team. My choice would be for playing deeper inside in both events. Team plays tighter and you see several groups trying the gutter and it never open up and just looks ugly. Sig/dbls is more hook overall and ball choice inside is key so you do not completely destroy the middle too early.
Looking forward to seeing more scores to come.
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Not sure who was playing the gutter for actual score, but you'll die a fast death unless you're a premium shot maker. I still believe breaking them down outside 5 is the way to go. I'd strongly advise staying right of 10 for at least a game in team, fight the urge to move in, you'll make your life difficult moving in too soon.
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Why not show Team instead of singles and doubles?
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Its a wierd mix of when they do vids of what event.
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I am going to disagree with this. I just bowled on the 12th and 13th. I tried to play in and struggled, especially in D/S. The 10th frame of game 1 of Singles I moved to play straight up 1-2 on the right. I shot 247, 225 the next two games. And believe me, I am no super skilled shot maker. It worked really well for me, and the couple I did tug, went brooklyn. Don't discount this shot for those who haven't gone. I found it to be very very scoreable.
Not sure who was playing the gutter for actual score, but you'll die a fast death unless you're a premium shot maker. I still believe breaking them down outside 5 is the way to go. I'd strongly advise staying right of 10 for at least a game in team, fight the urge to move in, you'll make your life difficult moving in too soon.
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I am going to disagree with this. I just bowled on the 12th and 13th. I tried to play in and struggled, especially in D/S. The 10th frame of game 1 of Singles I moved to play straight up 1-2 on the right. I shot 247, 225 the next two games. And believe me, I am no super skilled shot maker. It worked really well for me, and the couple I did tug, went brooklyn. Don't discount this shot for those who haven't gone. I found it to be very very scoreable.
Not sure who was playing the gutter for actual score, but you'll die a fast death unless you're a premium shot maker. I still believe breaking them down outside 5 is the way to go. I'd strongly advise staying right of 10 for at least a game in team, fight the urge to move in, you'll make your life difficult moving in too soon.
Id have to see you bowl, but I'm not buying this, a lot of times guys think they are going up 1-2, they really aren't. They're playing 5 or 4 out 1-2. Pete Thomas, is one of the best straight players in the country, and even he wasn't going up 1-2.
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Don't buy it, I don't really care. I know where I was playing. My ball never touched the first arrow, it was right of it every shot, even the ones I pulled slightly. I stood with my feet in the right gutter and with my small drift to the left I was throwing straight up 1-2.
For the rest of you with an open mind, don't discount this shot. I believe it was there in Team event as well, I just wasn't brave enough to move out there at the time.
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Team NABR actually just showed everyone how to play the Team pattern yesterday, as they just knocked JTUSA Support #1 out of top spot.
Most of them stayed outside of 10 at the arrows, with their breakpoint just right of the far right range finder (should be 11-12) until they opened up the pattern, then started to move in.
Again, completely different than how Eoff's team played, and while Eoff's stream was on D/S, Eoff's communication really wasn't there, either. #BartaNation definitely did their homework, especially with Gotschall needing to double to take the lead. Theirs is definitely one to watch.
BL.
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Barta's team also looked to be using MUCH weaker equipment, or at the very least much smoother. I really liked Barta's approach. There's plenty of backend, just fire right into it. Of course, it's also hard to argue with how Vermilyea attacked things.
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Team NABR actually just showed everyone how to play the Team pattern yesterday, as they just knocked JTUSA Support #1 out of top spot.
Most of them stayed outside of 10 at the arrows, with their breakpoint just right of the far right range finder (should be 11-12) until they opened up the pattern, then started to move in.
Again, completely different than how Eoff's team played, and while Eoff's stream was on D/S, Eoff's communication really wasn't there, either. #BartaNation definitely did their homework, especially with Gotschall needing to double to take the lead. Theirs is definitely one to watch.
BL.
Eoff was literally bowling with subs off the sub board if I'm not mistaken, two guys from his team had emergencies come up and couldn't make it. That explains the disconnect.
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Barta's team also looked to be using MUCH weaker equipment, or at the very least much smoother. I really liked Barta's approach. There's plenty of backend, just fire right into it. Of course, it's also hard to argue with how Vermilyea attacked things.
Gotchall said he used an Ebonite GameBreaker 2, Rose used a Storm IQ TOUR NANO and IQ TOUR, Pohl and IQ TOUR and an IQ TOUR NANO, Waliczek a Columbia DELIRIUM, then a Roto Grip TOTALLY DEFIANT and a Hammer BAD INTENTIONS, and Barta a Hammer FIRST BLOOD and BLACK WIDOW LEGEND.
per 11thframe.com
None of these balls are weak, smooth, but certainly not weak. Plus, their whole team is very much end over end with their ball rolls, which helps.
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Barta's team also looked to be using MUCH weaker equipment, or at the very least much smoother. I really liked Barta's approach. There's plenty of backend, just fire right into it. Of course, it's also hard to argue with how Vermilyea attacked things.
Gotchall said he used an Ebonite GameBreaker 2, Rose used a Storm IQ TOUR NANO and IQ TOUR, Pohl and IQ TOUR and an IQ TOUR NANO, Waliczek a Columbia DELIRIUM, then a Roto Grip TOTALLY DEFIANT and a Hammer BAD INTENTIONS, and Barta a Hammer FIRST BLOOD and BLACK WIDOW LEGEND.
per 11thframe.com
None of these balls are weak, smooth, but certainly not weak. Plus, their whole team is very much end over end with their ball rolls, which helps.
The bold definitely squares with what a local DV8 staffer here said about the team pattern. She is so used to coming around the side of the ball that she absolutely struggled with coming out behind it.. she ended up being the high on her team at 610.
I didn't get to see Barta's last game (due to league), but I'm definitely watching again to see how his BWL worked. I could see something like that, especially with its OOB polished finish working (assuming he kept it at OOB). Didn't hurt that a GB2 helped to blend it out as well.
BL.
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After reading these threads and watching the videos(and having bowled on the team pattern once), I think I will drill one of my NIB Motiv SR2's out of the "stash" and take it to El Paso with me.
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Yeah, nothing was going sideways off the end of the pattern for them like it has been for most other people.
Barta's team also looked to be using MUCH weaker equipment, or at the very least much smoother. I really liked Barta's approach. There's plenty of backend, just fire right into it. Of course, it's also hard to argue with how Vermilyea attacked things.
Gotchall said he used an Ebonite GameBreaker 2, Rose used a Storm IQ TOUR NANO and IQ TOUR, Pohl and IQ TOUR and an IQ TOUR NANO, Waliczek a Columbia DELIRIUM, then a Roto Grip TOTALLY DEFIANT and a Hammer BAD INTENTIONS, and Barta a Hammer FIRST BLOOD and BLACK WIDOW LEGEND.
per 11thframe.com
None of these balls are weak, smooth, but certainly not weak. Plus, their whole team is very much end over end with their ball rolls, which helps.
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I am going to disagree with this. I just bowled on the 12th and 13th. I tried to play in and struggled, especially in D/S. The 10th frame of game 1 of Singles I moved to play straight up 1-2 on the right. I shot 247, 225 the next two games. And believe me, I am no super skilled shot maker. It worked really well for me, and the couple I did tug, went brooklyn. Don't discount this shot for those who haven't gone. I found it to be very very scoreable.
Not sure who was playing the gutter for actual score, but you'll die a fast death unless you're a premium shot maker. I still believe breaking them down outside 5 is the way to go. I'd strongly advise staying right of 10 for at least a game in team, fight the urge to move in, you'll make your life difficult moving in too soon.
Id have to see you bowl, but I'm not buying this, a lot of times guys think they are going up 1-2, they really aren't. They're playing 5 or 4 out 1-2. Pete Thomas, is one of the best straight players in the country, and even he wasn't going up 1-2.
northface28 it is easy to doubt what you have not seen. Just because there are not many bowlers these days that like to play, or can play 1-2, does not mean it is impossible. I for one am not accurate enough to play out there, but admire those that can. The house shots most of us bowl on these days do not require that type of precision. Stand left, chuck it right and strike.
You may or may not be comfortable playing that far outside, but why would you dispute the information that someone offered up? Seems very narrow minded to me. How is information bad? If can't score where I am at, then at least there are other areas to try where people have said they have had success.
At this point I'm sure you doubt what I'm saying as well but, I have seen jorge300 throw quite a few games out at 1-2 and have success with it including those games this year in Hell Paso.
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I am going to disagree with this. I just bowled on the 12th and 13th. I tried to play in and struggled, especially in D/S. The 10th frame of game 1 of Singles I moved to play straight up 1-2 on the right. I shot 247, 225 the next two games. And believe me, I am no super skilled shot maker. It worked really well for me, and the couple I did tug, went brooklyn. Don't discount this shot for those who haven't gone. I found it to be very very scoreable.
Not sure who was playing the gutter for actual score, but you'll die a fast death unless you're a premium shot maker. I still believe breaking them down outside 5 is the way to go. I'd strongly advise staying right of 10 for at least a game in team, fight the urge to move in, you'll make your life difficult moving in too soon.
Id have to see you bowl, but I'm not buying this, a lot of times guys think they are going up 1-2, they really aren't. They're playing 5 or 4 out 1-2. Pete Thomas, is one of the best straight players in the country, and even he wasn't going up 1-2.
northface28 it is easy to doubt what you have not seen. Just because there are not many bowlers these days that like to play, or can play 1-2, does not mean it is impossible. I for one am not accurate enough to play out there, but admire those that can. The house shots most of us bowl on these days do not require that type of precision. Stand left, chuck it right and strike.
You may or may not be comfortable playing that far outside, but why would you dispute the information that someone offered up? Seems very narrow minded to me. How is information bad? If can't score where I am at, then at least there are other areas to try where people have said they have had success.
At this point I'm sure you doubt what I'm saying as well but, I have seen jorge300 throw quite a few games out at 1-2 and have success with it including those games this year in Hell Paso.
I need to see it, period, who cares what I think anyway? I know a lot guys that say they are playing up 1-2 and they really arent. Some of the best players in the country werent out there, but some guy on ballreviews was on the rim shooting 250? Yeah, ok.
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northface,
You are right, no one cares what you think! But I am sure you will share your mental diarrhea on here again and again.
By the way, I've never seen you, so I guess you don't exist either. I know a lot of people who think they know it all, but they really don't, like you. But just because you play one on ballreviews, doesn't make it true, based on your logic. But then again everyone already knew that.
And just for the record....most of the "better" players don't have to play out there because they bowl on teams that work together to break down the pattern to make it easier to score. I didn't have that luxury, so I had to find a place to play that worked for me. This was what I found after struggling to play inside with different lines and different balls. Not everyone can play there, and even those that can may not see the reaction that I did depending on their release and ball selection. But it is an option that shouldn't be discounted for those people who don't have 10 guys working together. You can dismiss it out of ignorance, pride, stupidity, arrogance or a combination of all of those. Only you and your therapist know for sure.