Author Topic: Does anybody think that shorter spans are OVERATED? (Read 8404 times)

Ric Clint · « **on:** September 13, 2003, 07:09:22 AM »

Okay here's my situation:

Up until about 2 months ago, I had been using balls with shorter spans (which was what my hand was fitted for, a shroter span).

The span was 4.5" x 4.5". Thumb pitch was 3/8 reverse, and 1/8 right palm latereal. Finger pitches are 0 reverse/forward.

I was shooting good and carrying a good average of around 208-215 depending on which league, but I've always had a problem of coming around the ball too much and also "topping the ball" was becoming a problem for me!

Then, about 2 months ago, I got a ball from my friend that had a longer span and I do have to stretch my hand just a bit to get my hand in it, but it doesn't hurt - I feel no pain at all!

The span is 4 7/8" x 5". Thumb pictch is 7/16" reverse and 1/4" right palm lateral. Finger pitches are 0 reverse/forward.

Well, shortly after getting this long span ball, I go and shoot my first 800 in one of my leagues. And last week, after getting another one of his used balls that has a long span, I go out and shoot 758 with a high game of 297 on another league with that ball! So that's 2 of his balls that I'm having success with!

I'm currently averaging 218 on Monday Night, 241 on Wednesday Night (yes, 241... I've shot 720+ on both nights of this league since it just started 2 weeks ago), and 225 on Thursday Night.

This longer span keeps me from "topping the ball" and allows me to stay behind the ball.

I know everybody, and especially the Pro's, are going to these 2.5" spans with about 1" forward thumb pitch.. but I don't see why???

I know that some people have to use shorter spans because of injuies, but if any of you can get away from shorter spans without hurting yourself, and just try it for an experiment (you may have to give it some time to get used to it - but there's nothing like it).. you just may like it!

I'm changing all my balls over to this 5" span!!!

20 pins increase in my average is enough to convince me!!!

Thanks!

Edited on 9/13/2003 10:32 PM

crankncrash · « **Reply #1 on:** September 13, 2003, 10:53:55 PM »

i did a similar thing myself.. i didn't realize my span was short but i had a ball fitted and it was a solid 1/8th longer.. what a difference.. i agree with ya

omegabowler · « **Reply #2 on:** September 13, 2003, 11:39:11 PM »

The problem is not a short span always but the pitches. If your span was that short I would question the thumb pitches. the span and pitches are relative. what fits at 5" most likely will not be what fits at 4.5.

look at your hand and stretch it out. your thumb points back. shorten your hand and your thumb points not so far back. That is a reach from what should be drilled but the difference is relative.

go with what works. it sounds like your driller gave you a proper fit with the long span. go with it and I hope you keep shooting those 8's.

Nice avg so far I hope the hand holds up.

I once hand a stretched span. thumb was 3/4 reverse 1/2 away. finger 1/4 forward.

needless to say I ripped the cover on a ball with little to no muscle effort. my avg shot up to 220 for a 3 month span. back in the urethane short oil days.
Tore up my tendons when I limp wristed a ball. It hung on my fingers and I never was the same. Now I have to bowl with a brace even 14 years later.

once a tendon is damaged in a hand it seams any minor twist in the wrong direction and I'm done for 6 weeks. Just my experience here so take it for what it's worth.

see a couple of fitting from some experts. even the best will disagree.

--------------------
"deserves got nothing to do with it."
-- William Munny

Pinbuster · « **Reply #3 on:** September 14, 2003, 10:13:28 AM »

In a word NO.

The vast majority of spans I have seen measured (for 7000 men) between 4 Â¼ and 4 Â½. Very, very few, less than 1% have spans that reach 5â€.

A longer span often feels better when fitting and your hand is on top of the ball but you throw the ball with the hand underneath and this adds stress to the hand.

Often a bowler will bowl slightly better with a long span but almost invariably if the span is too long and they bowl very much they will hurt themselves. They will burn the ends of their fingers, they will develop joint pain, and they will pull tendons. They will compensate by not putting the fingers in fully or more likely they will not put the thumb fully into the ball. This ends up causing them the squeeze the grip, inconsistent release, tendon damage at the base of the thumb, and developing a large a large callous at the base of the thumb.

There are varying degrees of span length. Your 4 Â½ span (while not unheard of it is unusual for both finger spans to be the same, the ring finger is almost always 1/16 to 1/8 inch longer) may have been a little on the short side but Â½â€ longer is a lot of difference. I would doubt that you can put your thumb fully in the ball and get your fingers in fully without stretching and if when you do your knuckles will probably turn white from the strain. With your thumb fully inserted in the ball your first finger joint (without stretching) should go 1/3 to Â½ the way across the hole in a relaxed finger tip fit.

The proâ€™s almost all use relaxed finger tip spans because they do not want to injure themselves and you can do more with the ball (apply more turn). A span that is too short may hurt your bowling but not your hand.

King of the mill - Donâ€™t listen to them. The shorter span obviously is better.

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #4 on:** September 14, 2003, 10:38:20 AM »

All very interesting.

3 to 4 years ago in my first season I had a stretched span.

4 15/16. My Bill Taylor span is 4 3/4 to 4 11/16(ring finger).

This extra stretched 3/16 seemed to really work for me.

I could extend the ball down the lane to my break point.
I was not so good on oil. But give me backends and I was pretty good.

Oh, I frequently had thumb damage and when I was on shots with not much backend I suffered and also if I had to tighten the thumbhole I had to be very careful about adding tape in the front as now my really stretched span would almost lock me up in a no revs release.

Now with the shorter more correct span I have a little more revs, can handle oilier backends better, handle flying backends less well, have to be more careful about really taping tight to hold on to the ball and in general just don't quite bowl as well.(I'm practicing a lot less too!).

My verdict on proper relaxed span and a slightly stretched span! Inconclusive!

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS I have bowled with other bowlers using spans similar to my previous stretched span.(last joint only barely over inside lip of fingerholes when thumb all the way in).

I have noticed they can really tear it up when backends are present.
With carrydown, not so good!

Brickguy221 · « **Reply #5 on:** September 14, 2003, 10:55:02 AM »

Like Lucky Lefty, for me I say "inconsulsive." With a longer span (not stretched, but longer than now) I seem to have bowled both higher games and series, and my average was 5 Pins higher. However, the biggest problem I had with longer spans is the thumb. I used more reverse pitch (1/4 then vs 1/8 now) and squeezed the ball more plus if my timing was off that day, I would have a lot of problems of the "thumb hanging up", probably due to squeezing. Also my scores were inconsistant. I would bowl like 700 today and 500 tomorrow on the same conditions.

With a shorter and more relaxed span, I never hang up in the ball anymore. However even though I am now more consistant, my scores are lower and my average is lower. Also for whatever reason, I now have more problems having a "free armswing" with a shorter relaxed grip. Does anyone else have this problem?

charlest · « **Reply #6 on:** September 14, 2003, 11:20:06 AM »

My original span was 5" & 5 1/8" for years. Now I use 4 13/16" in both, with ring finger dropped slightly due to permanent ring knuckle tendonitis, thanks to the stretched grip. DON'T DO IT, RIC. Listen to King of the mill and the others!!
--------------------
"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it."

mumzie · « **Reply #7 on:** September 14, 2003, 01:41:23 PM »

Well, I inadvertently had a ball with a stretched span - it was drilled perfectly, then he put in the old style lifter grips. That was in 1995. As I type, I can STILL feel the pain in the finger that was caused by that little oops. Yeah - I could really rip the ball - but it ripped me, too!

Now I have a span that has to be dropped 1/8" on the ring finger. It takes a little bit off the ball, but it keeps me in condition to shoe up.

If all you care about is the big numbers, and don't care if you bowl pain free in 5 years by all means keep the stretched span. Otherwise, listen to the others around you.

For me, I was consistently topping the ball - a simple, but radical pitch change was all I needed.

charlest · « **Reply #8 on:** September 14, 2003, 02:03:52 PM »

quote:
hmm....

when I put my thumb all the way in the ball, my fingertips will BARELY reach the bottom edges of my finger holes with my hand relaxed across the ball's surface. To reach over the edges of the holes as I "should" I have to stretch my hand forward a good 3/8" - 1/2". So, I guess you could say my span is rather stretched out. My current span is 4 7/16 middle finger and 4 11/16 ring finger. Pitches are 1/8 reverse and 0 lateral on the thumb, and 0 forward or reverse on the fingers.

CYR,

As far as I am concerned, if you put your fingertips into the ball up to the first knuckle, as per usual, then bend the finger so the thumb heads towards the thumb hole, the thumb should just fall into the hole up to the 2nd thumb joint (where the thumb meets the hand), without any pressing, stretching, or other manipulation of any part of the hand.

I imagine you have those lovely yellow dead spots in the middle of the pads of your fingertips - lovely

.
--------------------
"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it."

HamPster · « **Reply #9 on:** September 14, 2003, 02:34:32 PM »

Having multiple spans and pitches everywhere between 4 1/4th (both sides) to 4 3/4ths (both sides) and 1/4th reverse to 1/2 reverse and 3/8ths left, I have settled on 4 3/8ths (both sides) and 0 pitch. A longer span for me made it harder to get out of, which in turn I had to add reverse, which in turn made it hard on my forearm trying to hold onto it. I did have several incredible scores with the stretched out span, seeing as how when I was getting my thumb out of the ball, there was added pressure on my fingers, so I got the rotation and speed. However, my focus ended up switching to getting my thumb out of the ball once my forearm started getting sore, so my fingers were totally gone. Now my span is comfortable, but I'm still having trouble remembering my fingers. My orignal span for years before early this year had been 4 5/8ths (both sides) with 1/4th reverse, and I always did well. Of course I suppose that's why I started chicken winging the ball, because it's now hard for me to get out of a span that long. I still have a ball that's drilled with my longest span and most reverse (including a quarter reverse in the fingers), and it's horrific to try to hold onto and get out of now. But earlier this year, I couldn't miss with it. I could be practicing, and tell whoever I was bowling with that if I pulled out this ball, I could shoot any number right then and there if I could carry the back row, and I did. Speaking of which . . I'm off to the wanted forum . .
--------------------
HAH! I don't know ANYBODY now!

Being in adult leagues teaches you many things.

1. You're not on top anymore, but there are a lot more people that suck worse than you do now.

2. The myth about the youths having an easier shot is NOT TRUE. I'd have an entire ring collection if it was.

3. Drunk adults are a lot funnier than drunk youths.

LuckyLefty · « **Reply #10 on:** September 14, 2003, 03:03:13 PM »

Mumzie when you went shorter what was the radical change you made to stop topping?

REgards,

Luckylefty
PS I was aiming for a fingers in the ball and thumb falls into thumb hole with no stretching look as Charlest described. Just to note that is about 4 5/8 ring finger span for me.

I was discussing this with Joe

of AMF Williamsburg who explained and did a CLT drilling for me, and first introduced me to the Bill Taylor Principles.

He explained to me that "No" a slight amount of stretch in the body of the hand was actually good and led to a real nice relaxed hold.

This is about what I have found. Stretching my very flexible hand from about 4 5/8 (thumb falling in ball ring finger) to 4 23/32 is no great shakes and leads to a nice comfortable hold. Stretching alost another quarter inch to 4 15/16 like I use to be is too much. I find the most natural holding power with a 4 15/16 medium hold with 4 23/32 and less hold with the perfect thumb falling into ball of near 4 5/8. Note I adjusted thumb pitch for each move!

CYR a 1/8 inch stretch of the hand ends up putting the midpoint of the second joint of the fingers right over the lip of the holes. The Bill Taylor span.

I would not shorten 1/2 inch, instead more like 3/8 maximum.

Author Topic: Does anybody think that shorter spans are OVERATED? (Read 8404 times)

Ric Clint

Does anybody think that shorter spans are OVERATED?

crankncrash

Re: Does anybody think that shorter spans are OVERATED?

omegabowler

Re: Does anybody think that shorter spans are OVERATED?

Pinbuster

Re: Does anybody think that shorter spans are OVERATED?

LuckyLefty

Re: Does anybody think that shorter spans are OVERATED?

Brickguy221

Re: Does anybody think that shorter spans are OVERATED?

charlest

Re: Does anybody think that shorter spans are OVERATED?

mumzie

Re: Does anybody think that shorter spans are OVERATED?

charlest

Re: Does anybody think that shorter spans are OVERATED?

HamPster

Re: Does anybody think that shorter spans are OVERATED?

LuckyLefty

Re: Does anybody think that shorter spans are OVERATED?