Post by: elmatador on May 07, 2011, 09:32:51 AM
Post by: BrunsNick on May 08, 2011, 08:46:39 AM
Nick Smith ... A.K.A. BrunsNick
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Post by: Balldoctor on May 08, 2011, 08:58:45 AM
Remember, ALL BOWLING IS LOCAL!
Post by: charlest on May 08, 2011, 09:03:56 AM
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: therealdeal24 on May 08, 2011, 09:18:27 AM
Post by: Juggernaut on May 08, 2011, 09:20:56 AM
REALLY? THat long huh?
I figures it was broken down into microseconds by now, maybe even planque times. 
_______________________________________________________________________
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Post by: JustRico on May 08, 2011, 10:49:06 AM
It has no effect...most bowlers believe it does due to what they see...visual perception in color makes the eye thinks a ball reacts differently when it actually doesn't....
Nick stick to posting pretty pictures of new plastic balls....
The views and opinions expressed by myself are solely those of mine and NO one else, nor are they affiliated with anyone else.
Post by: Russell on May 08, 2011, 11:37:24 AM
I'm sure at a molcular level there is something in the darker dyes that affect it....but we're talking TINY differences. People who worry about stuff like this probably think themselves out of making good shots on a regular basis as well.
KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid)
Some things aren't worth your energy or brain cells...this is one of them.
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
Post by: charlest on May 08, 2011, 12:42:27 PM
Exactly what I was thinking when I posted my reply, Russell. Thanks for putting it into words.
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: Stan on May 08, 2011, 02:04:59 PM
Went to a Ebonite seminar a few years ago and they definetly said that color made a difference in ball reaction and that is why they chose, I think, red. At least for that ball during their testing.
Post by: JustRico on May 08, 2011, 02:08:28 PM
At the Ebonite seminar they said that red was the strongest reacting color....yet the black colored Domination/$250K is the strongest out of the bunch....go figure....
The views and opinions expressed by myself are solely those of mine and NO one else, nor are they affiliated with anyone else.
Post by: DON DRAPER on May 08, 2011, 02:31:45 PM
Post by: charlest on May 08, 2011, 02:51:19 PM
not really ....
It's more like saying if you colored tires white, that might affect their grip with respect to the black version.
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: Bowl_Freak on May 08, 2011, 05:05:13 PM
So why dont companies come out with 'White' bowling balls? Ive heard that white hooks less than anything so why is that? White XS vs Black XS, any comparisons anyone? If there is no difference, then why not have a white pearl ball?
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Post by: Bowl_Freak on May 08, 2011, 05:05:16 PM
So why dont companies come out with 'White' bowling balls? Ive heard that white hooks less than anything so why is that? White XS vs Black XS, any comparisons anyone? If there is no difference, then why not have a white pearl ball?
Current Arsenal:
RADICAL SLANT
MOTIV CRUEL C51 LE
MOTIV CRUEL C51 LE
BLACK DIAMOND
BANK SOLID
Post by: JustRico on May 08, 2011, 05:16:12 PM
A. white does not 'hook' less
B. a darker colored bowling ball gives the perception that it reacts harder than a lighter colored bowling ball
C. why are there not only white colored cars?
The only true way to make any assessment of reaction is to have multi colored choices (a white, a red, etc.) and eliminate bowler's perception by using a CATs system to gauge overall reaction...bowler's would be surprised how much they think a ball reacts to lighting and whatnot....or how much stronger one ball in comparison to another
The views and opinions expressed by myself are solely those of mine and NO one else, nor are they affiliated with anyone else.
Post by: Also Sprach Zaruthstra on May 08, 2011, 07:25:06 PM
Post by: Doug Sterner on May 08, 2011, 08:08:58 PM
Ebonite had done extensive testing with different colors when they developed their Mission bowling ball.
They tried black, blue, gold, blue and gold, red and gold, red and blue, red, dark red, lighter red along with several other shades of red.
Their findings were that the most hooking ball (same core, same coverstock formula but different pigment) was a ball that turned pepto bismol pink when it got some oil in it. Obviously they chose a slightly different pigment to get the original red Mission.
So in Ebonite's eyes, yes, color most definitely does have an effect on hook potential.
I had seen a difference in the Lane 1 BuzzBomb as well....it seemed that the more black the ball had in it, the more in hooked. I had a couple that were almost all purple and they seemed to hook less than the balls with more black in them....
Doug Sterner
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Post by: JustRico on May 08, 2011, 08:14:30 PM
A. Do not believe what a manufacturer advertises
Mission-red
Mission 2.0-red
Mission Domination/$250K-black
B. Do not believe, that a ball that has more of one color in it, as opposed to another, reacts differently unless they are drilled at the same time, the exact same way and thrown by the same person, the same amount of times on the same condition, using CATs and not a person's visual perception.....means absolutely nothing
The views and opinions expressed by myself are solely those of mine and NO one else, nor are they affiliated with anyone else.
Edited by JustRico on 5/8/2011 at 8:15 PM
Post by: Russell on May 09, 2011, 06:30:03 AM
So I am to believe that ROTO GRIP doesn't use orange because it doesn't hook as much....right?
Yet STORM used orange in the VG Nano and it's the earliest rolling ball on planet earth right now....and they have R&D departments with the same address?
Again...I'm sure there is some small effect...but ask yourself this one simple question...
Is "more hook" always better? So now are you only going to throw dark balls because they have to hook more? I guess that means the Nano is out...probably should leave the 715T alone too....oh wait those are 2 of the biggest hooking pieces out there.
We're obsessed with ways to make the ball hook more...and becoming way too passive about mechanics.
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
Post by: trash heap on May 09, 2011, 07:31:48 AM
It's funny how all these manufacturers tell us that color affects hook....but they seem to avoid telling us how much.
So are we now going to have a percentage of color rating system for bowling balls. This ball is 50% purple and will hook more than this one at 20% purple. But if you look at this one with 45% red, it will hook more than the 50% purple. Probably have price ranges because a certain percent will be considered the optimal ball.
Some guy will produce an article on this. ("COLOR DOES MATTER"). Next thing every pro shop will be getting requests for a ball with a distinct color.
Post by: JohnP on May 09, 2011, 07:37:09 AM
Re: White balls. I would not buy one or recommend one to a customer, simply because they show dirt so badly. The Original Jigsaw also fits this category, after a game on our lanes they look like they've been used for a year. -- JohnP
Post by: JustRico on May 09, 2011, 07:57:44 AM
Play devil's advocate...if you have a multi-colored bowling ball...most of the time when balls are mixed they are injected by percentage...say 30% one color 40% another and 30% of another....say they swirl in a certain way...do you really think this effects reaction? Do you think a company would risk this? One ball has more red....so it hooks off the lane. The next has more black and hooks less?
Look at polyester balls....single color or multi....do you think they react any different? And remember poly's do not have as many additives, just polyester and dye, plus maybe some pearl. Performance balls have polyester, urethane, resin additive and then color. What do you think is dominant? How do you control a Hybrid cover? Are all of them 50-50? Think about it....
The views and opinions expressed by myself are solely those of mine and NO one else, nor are they affiliated with anyone else.
Post by: storm making it rain on May 09, 2011, 08:12:17 AM
I want that GREEN ball that has all the MB's and RG's...
Post by: Also Sprach Zaruthstra on May 09, 2011, 09:40:55 AM
George Pappas once told me at a regional that he preferred bowling balls colored blue because they hit harder.
Who knows. It really does not matter. I think it is all personal preference. I won't throw an orange ball for any reason! Period! I hate the color orange! I will always throw blue, black, dark red, dark purple before anything else. I find multi-color balls irritating and distracting.
Ryan Shaffer won't throw a ball without a 5 or an 8 in the serial number, which is stupid as hell. The guy is an idiot.
A rep from Ebonite told me two weeks ago that color was what made a ball sell more than anything. Its called shelf appeal.
Post by: cappy718 on May 09, 2011, 02:53:00 PM
Then get someone to clean your lanes. True the Jigsaw does get dirty quicker, but I can throw a good 12 full games before it starts getting nasty and I wipe down every few frames...not every ball...and the lanes I bowl on arent the nicest.
~Scott
"Celebrate we will, cuz life is short but sweet for certain"
Post by: Russell on May 09, 2011, 03:10:03 PM
If only you could see the irony in your post right here....it's hilarious.
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
Post by: r534me on May 09, 2011, 03:29:22 PM
Post by: charlest on May 09, 2011, 05:06:08 PM
Are you males or females? Maybe you're just gay? That's fine with me.
Since when did color become so important to a male bowler who is interested in results?
What kind of drugs are you doing lately?
I have my own color preferences for some things, but not for bowling balls. Whatever hits the best for the ball reaction I need is what I want, except when I want to experiment.
If I could buy a new Pink Hammer, I'd be thrilled because it's one of the best dry lanes balls every made, anywhere by anyone.
End of Story.
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Post by: r534me on May 09, 2011, 06:26:52 PM
Post by: Doug Sterner on May 09, 2011, 08:49:17 PM
Doug Sterner
Doug's Pro Shop
Owego, NY
dougsproshop@aol.com
www.dougsproshop.net
RotoGrip Star Pro Shop
Turbo XTreme Dealer
Post by: charlest on May 09, 2011, 09:44:32 PM
"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Edited by charlest on 5/10/2011 at 6:34 AM
Post by: Mike Austin on May 09, 2011, 11:12:28 PM
and he's calling Ryan Shafer an idiot.... WOW
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Post by: T C 300 on May 10, 2011, 07:05:11 AM
hhmmmmmm.... maybe thats why the Vg nano is a light blue and light orange!! L M F A O!!
Post by: JohnP on May 10, 2011, 02:22:08 PM
I agree, but I do the drilling, not the lane maintenance. I've asked, that's all I can do. -- JohnP
Post by: bullred on May 11, 2011, 11:19:28 PM
el matador, to your questions, the answer is yes. Refer to Wikipidia
Post by: John D Davis on May 12, 2011, 12:48:24 AM
This is unfortunately a subject that can only be answered by a manufactory period. Now I dont see them ever giving such information to the public because it could prevent sells on a perticular ball/balls. Now what I have heard, and no I dont have the numbers to prove it, that the Mission and the Mission 2.0 are the same exact balls, just with different colors,etc. I got this information from an R and D speciallist from Ebonite International.
I dont know if some of you guys have gotten to throw both of these balls, but I was one of the few that did. And what I can say is that they are night and day different in reaction. The may even perhaps hook the same amount but the shapes at the breakpoint are a considerably different! I have also heard that the VG and the NANO are the exact balls, just one has black and one doesnt. The people throwing the balls will tell you that the NANO flat out hooks more. Does that answer your question? Yes, color does effect bowling ball reaction... Does the NANO REALLY HOOK MORE??????????? Maybe no. But the bottom line, is that it has a different shape off the spot!!! Thanks, John
Post by: cheech on May 12, 2011, 10:27:28 AM
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Post by: northface28 on May 12, 2011, 11:16:59 AM
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Post by: kidlost2000 on May 12, 2011, 11:45:05 AM
I do remember hearing that on the Jigsaw original that color did play a part in reaction. Based on the amount of black and white mixed. I would guess it isn't enough for anyone to notice a difference but it did have something to do with it.
I do like the Ebonite video for the Mission 2.0 that says "the green ball hooks more". You can't argue that with a customer.
Be good, or be good at it.