Post by: MarvinsSkeleton on July 09, 2003, 11:20:15 PM
Click Here (http://"http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/6271916.htm") to view the article.
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Corey
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Oh good, my dog found the chainsaw.
Post by: charlest on July 10, 2003, 02:45:29 PM
The problem is there are too few sponsors to pay for the show, no matter how many people watch. (I believe the summary as to why professional bowling did not have more corporate sponsors was the demographics of the audience were not the people to whom they wanted to market their products: read that - they don't have enough money!)
So no matter how interesting the bowling show might be, they can't get enough sponsor money unless (to be perfectly absurd) it was either
- full contact bowling, or
- naked bowling.
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"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it."
Post by: Phillip Marlowe on July 10, 2003, 03:00:41 PM
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"It's just a carry contest."
Post by: T-GOD on July 10, 2003, 04:48:24 PM
Post by: Buzzhead on July 10, 2003, 05:07:06 PM
Post by: MI 2 AZ on July 10, 2003, 05:18:41 PM
Post by: 12 Steps on July 10, 2003, 06:12:19 PM
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"You can only keep what you have, by giving it away"
Post by: RSalas on July 10, 2003, 06:21:02 PM
quote:
I wish someone would proofread these titles before posting them.
Well, at least it wasn't "Dorin Does Dallas."
Post by: 9andaWiggle on July 10, 2003, 06:35:34 PM
quote:
(I believe the summary as to why professional bowling did not have more corporate sponsors was the demographics of the audience were not the people to whom they wanted to market their products: read that - they don't have enough money!)
I think the same could have been said about NASCAR 10-15 years ago. Now look at it. So am I to believe that bowlers make less money than the stereotypical Red Neck NASCAR fan? Funny, I see the same people who are at the track on the lanes during the week. Fact is, no matter how poor a person is, they will spend money if they see VALUE in it.
The real problem (and biggest difference between NASCAR and bowling) is the size of the audience to market to. Sure, there are millions of bowlers out there, but on a nice Sat. or Sun. afternoon (at least that's when they showed bowling the last time I watched it) who's going to sit in the house and watch bowling? Not me - and I love the game! Corporate America knows that too, and they'll look for something else that will give them more bang for their buck.
Oh yeah, and women bowling against the guys... If they can bring it, let 'em!
If you want to see the best beat the best, you cannot exclude anyone due to race or sex. Last time I checked, bowling was about how many pins you could knock down, not about who was carrying what in their underwear.
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9-
Why, WHY won't the last one just fall?? It's WIGGLING for cryin' out loud!!
Post by: C-G ProShop-Carl on July 10, 2003, 07:07:55 PM
THIRD, one of the things that is different from the men's tour to the women's tour is strike %----I think CDB could spare with the best of the men, but the strikes will be what separates the two.
Do not be fooled though, she would have a good chance of winning alot of matches, but the odds would be stacked against her. There are too many factors involved in bowling.....and it is great that men and women are basically on a level playing field. The only thing that the men have and most women do not, is the power game.
Post by: Bjaardker on July 10, 2003, 08:28:17 PM
I would LOVE to see the ladies of the PWBA give it a shot. Can you imagine a Tish Johnson Vs. PDW match??? That would be an INTENSE match.
Post by: JoeBowler on July 10, 2003, 08:57:46 PM
Post by: charlest on July 10, 2003, 08:58:43 PM
quote:
I wish someone would proofread these titles before posting them.
Double-entendres are our life-blood.
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"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it."
Post by: charlest on July 10, 2003, 09:00:00 PM
quote:
NO SHE SHOULD NOT BE ALLOW TO BOWL IN THE PBA
PBA IS FOR MEN AND MEN ONLY!
No one, ABSOLUTELY NO ONE, said it would be in a PBA venue.
And please takes the caps off; they are hard to read.
(expletive deleted.)
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"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it."
Post by: michelle on July 10, 2003, 09:02:08 PM
quote:
Tish VS Petey ???? That would still be two guys bowling.
spoken like the true chicken$hit hiding behind a screen name that JoeBowler must be.
Post by: charlest on July 10, 2003, 09:04:11 PM
quote:
Nice observation, MI_2_AZ!
quote:
(I believe the summary as to why professional bowling did not have more corporate sponsors was the demographics of the audience were not the people to whom they wanted to market their products: read that - they don't have enough money!)
I think the same could have been said about NASCAR 10-15 years ago. Now look at it. So am I to believe that bowlers make less money than the stereotypical Red Neck NASCAR fan? Funny, I see the same people who are at the track on the lanes during the week. Fact is, no matter how poor a person is, they will spend money if they see VALUE in it.
Not a question of what you believe. Sponsors do not care what you and I believe. They are totally concerned with the sale of their product. If they saw the watchers/viewers of professional bowling do not earn enough to buy enough of their product to make it worth their while, belief nevers enters into the picture. Demographics rule Madison Avenue. period. end of story. Poof!
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"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it."
Post by: Black_Balled on July 10, 2003, 09:04:15 PM
So for any guy that believes that she can't do it, that she can't go the long haul, that she can't win a PBA championship, well, I just hope she's not having an "on" day when you're having an "off" day, cuz' I sure would hate to hear about you on the 6 o'clock news!
Post by: charlest on July 10, 2003, 09:05:43 PM
quote:
i think she'd do fine...cuz i mean think of what it'd do the guy's ego if they got there butt whooped by a girl?
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Damn those 10 pins! I swear they got stick-it on the bottom of them...damn them to hell!!!
exactly the point!!
The women have nothing to lose; the men have everything to lose.
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"Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it."
Post by: DON DRAPER on July 10, 2003, 09:47:02 PM
Post by: TwoFourEightNineNine on July 10, 2003, 11:21:11 PM
quote:
NO SHE SHOULD NOT BE ALLOW TO BOWL IN THE PBA
PBA IS FOR MEN AND MEN ONLY!
IF SHE BOWLS IN IT EVERY WOMAN IN AMERICA WILL WANT TO BOWL IN THE PBA, PLUS SHE WOULD NEVER WIN BECAUSE SHE COULDN'T HANDLE THE OIL! (HA HA HA0
HOPEFULLY THEY NEVER ALLOW HER TO BOWL IN THE PBA IT WOULD RUIN THE PBA (NO OFFENCE TO WOMEN) BUT YOU DONT SEE MEN WANTING TO BOWL IN THE PWBA?!!?!?!?!?!!?!?
Better yet, who would want to bowl in the PWBA? The payouts are just sad.
I'll disagree with you. She's trying to make a living bowling, and if she'd like to continue that (if and when the pwba decides to fold), she should join the pba. I wouldn't be suprised that the pba would allow their tournaments to become open tournaments.
Anyway, by all means, all pba events are sanctioned by the ABC... in which ABC is a co-ed organization.
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-Jeremy Vitug
BallReviews.com Burning Sensations Bowling Team
Post by: 10 In The Pit on July 11, 2003, 02:35:41 AM
I look back to another sport that is near and dear to me.....NHRA Drag Racing. Nobody thought that a woman could be competitive in the NHRA, much less in the Professional categories such as Top Fuel or Funny Car. Well, a nice lady by the name of Shirley Muldowney proved, and proved very convincingly that she could take on the best male opponents and WIN!!! To me, drag racing and bowling have a lot of similarities (just like Sawbones and his endless referrals to golf and bowling).....both sports depend more on sheer ability, technique, and expertise, rather than muscle and muscle power. It doesn't take a man that is 6'6" tall and weighing 275 pounds of pure muscle to drive a Top Fuel car (making some 7,000 horsepower).....a lady who is 5' tall and weighs in at a soaking wet 100 pounds can get the job done just fine! Bowling is the same way when it comes to size and muscle requirements.....you don't have to be big and muscular to knock down pins and do it effectively. Most of you would be surprised if you walked up to the recent winner of two PWBA tournaments (Tiffany Stanbrough).....Tiffany probably isn't more than 5 feet tall, but she can knock down pins with the best of them. Pete Weber would blow over in a good gust of wind, but he has won 20-something PBA titles. Bowling isn't about size and muscle....it is expertise and accuracy and technique (again, the same thing as driving a 7,000 horsepower Top Fuel car).
If the PBA would open their doors today to the women, I would expect to see some of the women cash in each event, and it wouldn't surprise me to see some of them make it to the finals. I don't know if there is a stipulation in the PBA bylaws that require male competitors only, but if there isn't, then I say let the women compete too! And if there is such a restriction in the PBA, then I would say that it needs some serious rethinking about letting women compete with the men.
There's one female bowler in my state (actually who bowls in my house) who can compete head to head with the best male bowlers in the state, and she is only about 5'4", not muscular, doesn't put a ton of revs on the ball, yet she carried a 233 average a year or so ago. She hasn't shot 800 yet, but she has been in the 790's on several occasions, and has some 4 300 games to her credit thus far. To meet her, you would never really expect a powerhouse bowler....and to watch her bowl, you can easily see that she doesn't overpower the lanes at all....but, she gets the job done, and done VERY effectively. At some 26 years of age, she has already recorded over 170 700+ sanctioned series, which is waaaaaaaay ahead of any other woman in the state, and most men too. Basically, she uses accuracy and technique to get the job done, and not raw power....but you know when she smacks the pocket square, because you still hear a good crack out of the pins, and it all comes from ball placement.
Women in the PBA??? I say, "let 'em in"!!!
Post by: Jeffrevs on July 11, 2003, 07:46:48 AM
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JEFF
Just chimin' in !
Post by: JoeBowler on July 11, 2003, 08:21:33 AM
The top women are virtually guaranteed checks each week, larger checks than what they would earn by making the 1st cut in a PBA event. And since the top women seem to make the show every other week (or more often) they would loose TV incentive money.
I say they should allow women to join and bowl in PBA events. The only stipulation is that they cannot belong to both the PWBA and the PBA with a one year layoff clause if they switch back to the PWBA.
Post by: michelle on July 11, 2003, 08:56:25 AM
Post by: Doc Hollywood on July 11, 2003, 09:32:38 AM
First off if there was enough pressure to allow a woman to bowl it would happen.
Second, Whomever the woman was, the association putting on the event would make the playing condition one that she has difficulty playing. This would make it much more difficult for her to compete. Percentage of players who could play her tough condition versus one woman.
She would fair better than some but maybe not enough. Then the promoters would make air about how tough the male competition would be.
There are to many controlled variables that can change the outcome of an event like this.
The same holds true when Annika played the PGA event. They let her play but put her on a longer demanding course than what she normally would play. If they put her on a course that was closer to an LPGA event I bet she would have faired much better.
There is still too much chauvinism in these sports and will be kept that way for a long time.
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Doc
Owner and Inventor of
DOC'S MAGIC BOWLING BALL ELIXIR
For more information click on the link below
http://home.comcast.net/~docsmagic/
or message me at:
http://Doc65@aol.com
Post by: card79 on July 11, 2003, 09:35:10 AM
Let CDB take on the men.
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I don't really play cards and I am not 79, but it fits together somehow.
Post by: BackToBasics on July 11, 2003, 10:01:51 AM
Edited on 7/11/2003 10:27 AM
Post by: cosmo on July 11, 2003, 10:18:31 AM
Post by: JoeBowler on July 11, 2003, 10:25:19 AM
You can argue this event is watered down by a lot of amateurs who have no chance of winning making it easier to cash but virtually all the top pro’s and “amateurs†will be bowling there.
Doc – I can argue your chauvinism is showing in that you feel they couldn’t handle all the conditions that could be laid out. And the Colonial course is one of the shortest used on the PGA tour and is one of the reasons Annika picked that tournament to play in. The biggest disadvantage I felt Annika had was all the media attention taking energy away from her golf game.
I really don’t know why the PBA doesn’t open the doors. If they want to say that the best bowlers in the world compete there then it should be open to all comers. But members should not be allowed to bowl on competing tours. And if that kills the PWBA then so be it.
Post by: HamPster on July 11, 2003, 12:40:43 PM
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Forget Kung Fu, I know Ron Bahr!!!
The only difference between youth and adult leagues are that the big boys are allowed to whine. They're more entertaining anyway.
Post by: mumzie on July 11, 2003, 01:15:14 PM
The grand prize was "win a spot in a regional tournament".
It also said that there is a new rule is that you can cash in ONE tournament without being a member. Nowhere on the flyer did it say it was ONLY limited to men.
Of course, if I couldn't cash without joining, I wouldn't bowl a regional, because their membership form clearly states "male" as one of the requirements. But if I was invited to bowl an event, like Annika was INVITED to play the event she participated in, I'd show up for sure.
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Bowling? Of course it's a sport.
Post by: 9andaWiggle on July 11, 2003, 01:16:19 PM
quote:
They are totally concerned with the sale of their product. If they saw the watchers/viewers of professional bowling do not earn enough to buy enough of their product to make it worth their while, belief nevers enters into the picture. Demographics rule Madison Avenue.
This is true, but the point I was trying to make was that the opinion of the NASCAR fan 15 years ago is about the same as the opinion of bowlers: a bunch of beer swilling working class slobs. (Don't anyone get offended now, I'm a bowler and a NASCAR fan, so I'm one of ya'll). Just saying there has to be some way to market bowling in order to drive up demand for it's product.
Hamster - I can see why you feel that way, but look at it a different way. Don't think about the man-haters you see and hear on Rikki Lake, insted, think about your Mom (wife, girlfriend, whoever). If my wife was in the PWBA, and wanted to take on the best in the game, I wouldn't want her to miss out on that opportunity just because of her gender.
As for the women's rights movement going to far, maybe they do. That's why I think if equality is to ever happen, they will have to realize that if there can no longer be organizations that cater only to men, then there can not be a single organization that caters only to women. This is a utopian theory, obviously, but it only seems fair to me.
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9-
Why, WHY won't the last one just fall?? It's WIGGLING for cryin' out loud!!
Post by: HamPster on July 11, 2003, 01:54:08 PM
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Forget Kung Fu, I know Ron Bahr!!!
The only difference between youth and adult leagues are that the big boys are allowed to whine. They're more entertaining anyway.
Post by: michelle on July 11, 2003, 02:08:42 PM
The rest of my response would move to the political realm and I'm not going to be the one accused of a thread hi-jack.
Post by: HamPster on July 11, 2003, 03:12:20 PM
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Forget Kung Fu, I know Ron Bahr!!!
The only difference between youth and adult leagues are that the big boys are allowed to whine. They're more entertaining anyway.
Post by: tomtom123 on July 12, 2003, 11:20:39 AM
Post by: HamPster on July 12, 2003, 01:17:42 PM
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Forget Kung Fu, I know Ron Bahr!!!
The only difference between youth and adult leagues are that the big boys are allowed to whine. They're more entertaining anyway.
Post by: DON DRAPER on July 12, 2003, 09:11:15 PM
Post by: DP3 on July 12, 2003, 10:10:22 PM
Post by: 10 In The Pit on July 12, 2003, 10:36:26 PM
Today, there are those who say that women can't compete head to head with men in the top Professional Bowling categories. Given a chance, I'm sure that there are at least some women who can put this idea to rest. Of course, you won't know for sure until they have tried, but I say that the PBA should give 'em a chance to see if they can make the grade needed to compete with the men.
Post by: Black_Balled on July 14, 2003, 06:29:01 PM
For the few days before, and for the few days after Annika competed in the PGA, all I heard was Annika this and Annika that. People were crowded around the televisions in the gym watching her play. I'm not even a golf fan and I knew what she shot.
I don't think many of you realize how big a deal it actually is for a man and a woman to compete head-to-head and the woman wins. It is not something you see alot in the world of sports.
Please! Carolyn Dorin-Ballard(or any PWBA champ for that matter - Michelle Feldman is simply awesome!) vs. WRW or Pistol Pete!! WHAT TIME?! WHAT CHANNEL?!
For those of you who wouldn't want to see a match up like that, I'm glad you're not a network programming executive, because half the stuff on T.V. is boring enough!
Post by: ClutchClay on July 14, 2003, 07:16:10 PM
quote:
It doesn't take ... weighing 275 pounds...
But isnt that, in fact, the average body composition of PWBA bowlers?
quote:
...a lady who is 5' tall and weighs in at a soaking wet 100 pounds...
When you find a woman on the PWBA tour with that type of body, let me know.
Seriously though, I agree that women must realize that they cannot demand access to men's only organizations and continue to maintain their women's only organizations.
However, if the PWBA dissappears, then I say, let them bowl the PBA.
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Regards, ClutchClay
Post by: NevadaBowl on July 14, 2003, 07:17:06 PM
An easy fix to this would be for the PBA, for the upcoming season, to let the top 15 or 20 PWBA National pros eligible to bowl on the PBA Tour. The rest of the pros could earn their way in through the regional program. I think that would (1) be cost effective, (2) give bowling and the PBA a good source of publicity and (3) allow them to truly lay claim to the best professional bowlers in the world. This should cause no headaches, and those that can't measure up can go home knowing they have given it a shot. And mark my words, there will be ladies that CAN be successful on tour.
This is not that difficult.
Post by: Michael DeSantis on July 15, 2003, 12:53:54 PM
I know they used to have mixed doubles pro competitions in the past and I thought they were entertaining. They have also had senior PBA and PWBA tournaments in the past. There are a lot of possibilities that could be explored which I think might help market the game to a broader audience.
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"Chopping Wood For over Two Decades"