BallReviews

General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: six pack on February 03, 2020, 12:54:04 PM

Title: Drilling a strong ball week
Post by: six pack on February 03, 2020, 12:54:04 PM
I really struggle on our fresh pattern and figured it is from my lack of spinning the ball and the beat up hplís I bowl on  Iíve tried plenty of balls and layouts with not much luck. Anyone try a drilling something with a strong cover weak such as a 51/2Ē pin from pap and work well?  IĒm really considering it
Title: Re: Drilling a strong ball week
Post by: Impending Doom on February 03, 2020, 01:18:55 PM
I really struggle on our fresh pattern and figured it is from my lack of spinning the ball and the beat up hplís I bowl on  Iíve tried plenty of balls and layouts with not much luck. Anyone try a drilling something with a strong cover weak such as a 51/2Ē pin from pap and work well?  IĒm really considering it

Any particular ball or motion you're looking for?
Title: Re: Drilling a strong ball week
Post by: six pack on February 03, 2020, 02:05:16 PM
Leaning on the wild streak or the money badger tour with room for some surface adjustments
Title: Re: Drilling a strong ball week
Post by: TWOHAND834 on February 03, 2020, 03:31:13 PM
What exactly is the struggle?  Am I reading this correctly that you may be more up the back of the ball and not getting much axis rotation?  What balls are you currently using and what is happening with the ball motion (too soon, ball burning up, hooking too much on back end)?
Title: Re: Drilling a strong ball week
Post by: six pack on February 03, 2020, 04:29:55 PM
for the most part the ball will not carry very well. plenty of flat tens,8 pins,7 10 splits,just about anything and everything you can think of. tried 3 different asyms with poor results. Conspiracy theory with different surfaces from 2k to polish hooke a plenty and I could play as far as 5 th arrow, 7inches of track flair.poor results. creed rebellion with 5 inch pin to pap pin up hooked in the early mids and rolled straight,poor entry unless I could play up ten. dv8 freak show with 2k sanded looks good on fresh but quickly pukes in the mids and skates around on the back. drilled 70x41/2"x35. boost hybrid sanded 5k works good after a game and a half drilled 70x41/2"x35. too erratic on the fresh. old hpl's with a fairly long med flat pattern,not a house shot. most other bowler's use very strong equipment with good results here,not me. speed is 16-17 and rev dom. urethane has been really good or really bad depending how the other player's break down the shot.
Title: Re: Drilling a strong ball week
Post by: six pack on February 03, 2020, 05:18:32 PM
JR Raymond touched on this and I think it's the issues I'm having..and it's not just in the one center I bowl in but in several other's as well where I can't use anything with a stronger cover/surface and weaker stuff is not working either. feels I'm locked out. I've always done better with high rg stuff anyways. stronger core ball and strong asym's really don't work for my game and frankly I really don't see a need for them no matter what the pattern.
Title: Re: Drilling a strong ball week
Post by: TWOHAND834 on February 04, 2020, 08:22:33 AM
This is what I have learned from my experiences.  Long patterns tend not to be heavy patterns volume wise.  So what happens is the front part of the lane burns up pretty quickly.  But when you move inside, the pattern still plays long.  So you take something aggressive to play inside but you lack the entry angle thus leaving the flat 10s.  The Freak Show at 2000 looks good on fresh but quickly pukes.  That means the sanded cover is helping to burn up the oil in the heads.  But your Boost at 5000 is too erratic probably because it isnt burning enough energy in the heads and probably wants to go sideways on the back end on those HPLs. 

My suggestion without seeing the ball physically go down the lane would be to adjust the cover of the Boost down to 3000 to take away some of the erratic motion and smooth it out a touch.  The Boost is a higher RG and med-high diff ball making it skid flippy especially if the pattern is playing longer.  The ball cant bleed off any energy until the back end of the lane.  The Freak Show has a pretty strong core as it is both low RG and high diff.  I think with the 2000 surface to go along with the strong core, its the reason the ball gets pukey.  I would take that ball up to 4000 to see if it would make it more playable for a longer period of time and then when it does get pukey, ball down the the Boost and move inside a pinch and bump the track area. 

Since it sounds like the volume is not very heavy in the heads, I would start with a mid performance symmetrical with 3000-4000 surface and then when the shot breaks down, move inside with the same ball until carry goes away.  Then you move to more of a higher RG high diff ball like thr Boost and move inside and bump the track area. 
Title: Re: Drilling a strong ball week
Post by: six pack on February 05, 2020, 11:41:54 AM
Just makes no sense that guys are killing it with heavy hitters and I have to use entry level stuff with surface   Seems like IĒm missing something
Title: Re: Drilling a strong ball week
Post by: TWOHAND834 on February 05, 2020, 01:01:57 PM
Just makes no sense that guys are killing it with heavy hitters and I have to use entry level stuff with surface   Seems like IĒm missing something

Yeah.  But you being rev dominate on a beat up lane surface is why you may not be matching up like others have.  My thought is that you need balls that are cleaner through the front but not overly aggressive on the backend.  I honestly think based on what you are saying is something like an Emerald IQ would work well.  The R2S Pearl cover would help with getting through the front part of the lane and the lower diff would help to control the erratic behavior you see from the Boost. 
Title: Re: Drilling a strong ball week
Post by: six pack on February 10, 2020, 12:30:26 PM
So I attended a match maker demo and got to rip on a wild streak that had close to a 5  1/2Ē pin from my pap and knocked the cover down to 2k and the reaction was awesome. Not HPLís though
Title: Re: Drilling a strong ball week
Post by: Impending Doom on February 10, 2020, 12:49:07 PM
Technically, unless you drill every ball with the pin 3-3/8 inches from pap, you're drilling a ball weaker. I still haven't drilled an assym with a short pin to pap, but for me, symmetrical stuff with the pin 5 inches from pap vs 2 inches from pap reads friction and shapes differently, but covers similar amounts of boards. If I'm trying to use something with a longer pin, it's because I'm reading the lane more front to back. The shorter pins let me smooth out the left to right.
Title: Re: Drilling a strong ball week
Post by: six pack on February 10, 2020, 01:12:08 PM
I havenít had much luck with asymmetrical balls  short pins read way too early and long pins had little shape if any. I could see a long pin playing front to back but itís gonna be short lived and not very versatile. With this wild streak I could cange releases and still had a good look playing front to back and side to side. But was not my lanes so Ill see how it goes when I get mine
Title: Re: Drilling a strong ball week
Post by: CoorZero on February 10, 2020, 09:14:07 PM
I havenít had much luck with asymmetrical balls  short pins read way too early and long pins had little shape if any. I could see a long pin playing front to back but itís gonna be short lived and not very versatile. With this wild streak I could cange releases and still had a good look playing front to back and side to side. But was not my lanes so Ill see how it goes when I get mine

I think that was the point of the Wild Streak. It's a very release-versatile ball. Gives you what you put into it.
Title: Re: Drilling a strong ball week
Post by: six pack on February 13, 2020, 05:20:46 AM
so I punched up a wild streak with a 60x 5 1/4" x 45 layout and rolled the best set on the pair and over 100 pins over average. this ball really hits!
Title: Re: Drilling a strong ball week
Post by: tommygn on February 13, 2020, 08:02:38 AM
I havenít had much luck with asymmetrical balls  short pins read way too early and long pins had little shape if any. I could see a long pin playing front to back but itís gonna be short lived and not very versatile. With this wild streak I could cange releases and still had a good look playing front to back and side to side. But was not my lanes so Ill see how it goes when I get mine

When drilling an asymmetrical ball, it's the MB placement and pin buffer distance that is more important than the pin distance when trying to get the ball to go through the pins correctly, especially for a low axis tilt player. You can still use a "normal" pin distance, but kick the MB to 5" or possibly longer, depending on your ball speed. This helps an asymmetrical ball shape more like a symmetrical, but still have the defined move through the pins. There is a good chance that the asymmetrical balls you have are spinning up too fast.

 The pin buffer distance will help determine how sharp the move is when coming out of the oil. Close to VAL will equal a sharper move, longer pin buffer distance will smooth out the shape with more continuation.

Title: Re: Drilling a strong ball week
Post by: six pack on February 14, 2020, 03:49:43 PM
Last asym I had was a conspiracy pearl drilled 70x3 3/4Ēx 20. I could play anywhere between 2nd and fith arrow. Never carried more then two in a row and left way more 8ís 9ís and flat tens then I care to remember. I gave the ball 3 weeks and offíd it. And yes I did try cover adjustments. Had same issues with other low rg asymís in the past. I give up on them and frankly donít need them. I can cover just as many boards with symmetrical core balls and make better adjustments with them. I could see the use under certain extreme conditions that I never see. Now I always seem to bowl good with the higher rg balls but they are not that popular so selection is limited
Title: Re: Drilling a strong ball week
Post by: BowlingforSoup on February 14, 2020, 07:09:33 PM
An Asym drilled 70 x 3 3/4 x 20 is far from a weak layout on an asym.Strong layout on a strong ball.
Title: Re: Drilling a strong ball week
Post by: six pack on February 15, 2020, 07:44:16 AM
so what a weak layout that won't roll early and still have shape down lane? (not roll forward)
Title: Re: Drilling a strong ball week
Post by: Bowl_Freak on February 15, 2020, 08:03:09 AM
6" pin to pap
Title: Re: Drilling a strong ball week
Post by: six pack on February 15, 2020, 09:43:25 AM
Asymmetrical?
Title: Re: Drilling a strong ball week
Post by: Bowl_Freak on February 15, 2020, 09:58:02 AM
Yes. Try pin above middle finger, if RH. The rule is the further pin is away from PAP, the longer the transition, skid phase is. Still will give you shape at end, but just further down and more responsive to friction. Hopefully i got that right.
Title: Re: Drilling a strong ball week
Post by: six pack on February 15, 2020, 01:10:21 PM
pin distances closer to 6 1/4" produce more forward roll  pin distances closer to 2 3/4" produce more side roll. my brain keeps telling me closer pin to pap will result in an early roll. I know as fact what a 5" pin will roll forward on my so a 6" pin to pap would only be worse.
Title: Re: Drilling a strong ball week
Post by: TWOHAND834 on February 17, 2020, 07:08:30 AM
The biggest factor is the MB, especially if the intermediate diff is pretty high.  According to Mo, putting the MB close to the VAL will produce more forward roll and read the pattern more overall.  Putting it 6 1/2 - 6 3/4 from PAP will produce a sharper breakpoint.  This video gives a good understanding of what the different layouts will do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2v78FPhUSE