Post by: Raven829 on December 28, 2006, 06:29:39 AM
Late last summer I sent an email to D/T about the Tour Ultra shoes. I understand that they were having forwarding issues with email, but supposedly all emails were responded to eventually. Mine was not.
A few weeks ago a member here put me in direct contact with Billy Yinger. I contacted Mr. Yinger about acquiring a large pair of Tour Ultras. Mr. Yinger then gave me a number to contact Dale Garber in customer service. I was told to ask Dale if they had the shoes in stock, and if they did they would sell them directly to me. I left a message for Mr. Garner which was not returned. I called back 2 days later and Mr. Garner answered the phone.
I proceeded to purchase a pair of size 14 Tour Ultras directly from him. I was told they were in stock, which I believe is true. I gave him my CC information over the phone, and then waited. This was approximately 2 weeks ago.
Last Wednesday came, and I had yet to receive my shoes. I called customer service to inquire about them. I talked to a lady, can't recall her name. She looked into my order and said that it hadn't shipped yet and didn't know why. She then told me that she would personally take care of the order and that it "should" ship the next day, which would have been 12/21.
11/27 comes and I still have no shoes. I called customer service again and spoke to a woman named Gina. She told me that my shoes still had yet to ship. This is supposedly due to a change in some sort of system. She then put Mr. Garner on the phone to talk with me. He told me that he was going to look into the problem and get back with me right away. He took down my cell number and I expected to hear from him within a couple hours at the most.
It is now the next day, and Mr. Garner or anyone else from Dynothane has failed to contact me regarding my order. It has been 2 weeks since I placed my order, and quite frankly I am sick of excuses. I'm a pretty patient man when it comes to things like this, but I don't appreciate being lied to. I also know it is the holiday season and they are certainly busy. However, that should not mean that my business and money takes a back seat to other larger orders from distributors like I was told. It is 1 pair of shoes. It cannot possibly be that difficult to box them up and have UPS pick up the order.
This rant will probably not do any good in expediting my order, but I needed to get this off my chest. Thanks to those of you that took the time to read my rant.
Don
--------------------
"On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage. Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me. The problem we have to address more than anything is the home run problem."
~Dusty Baker being a total fool
Post by: jls on December 28, 2006, 02:44:55 PM
HOPE PRO SHOPS ARE PAYING ATTENTION TO THIS.
I SEE NO FUTURE NEED TO STOCK DYNO THANE SHOES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NOR THEIR BALLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ps.
sorry to hear about your problem.
--------------------
jls31316
Post by: Raven829 on December 28, 2006, 02:51:43 PM
Don
--------------------
"On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage. Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me. The problem we have to address more than anything is the home run problem."
~Dusty Baker being a total fool
Post by: jls on December 28, 2006, 03:12:59 PM
when dist. and pro shops find out about it, they then can choose if they want to deal with that type of company.
sorry to hear about your problem. hope you get it resolved soon.
--------------------
jls31316
Post by: Bjaardker on December 28, 2006, 03:44:16 PM
quote:
SIR, if dyno thane wants to play both ends against the middle, good for them.
when dist. and pro shops find out about it, they then can choose if they want to deal with that type of company.
Did you not read a thing that he just wrote?
He needs to order a size that is custom made. I.E. a size that would not make good fiscal sense for a distributor to stock. There's a good chance it would actually cost more money for everyone involved to make that size available in the mainstream consumer pipeline due to the cost of inventory & the added administrative costs.
But then again, why should you care jls? You don't even have a profile filled out so who gives a flying one.
Post by: 230-n-up-or-bust on December 28, 2006, 03:49:27 PM
--------------------
Save this site's bandwidth. Don't write a novel. Please keep your signature to a minimum.
Post by: 102101 on December 28, 2006, 04:00:15 PM
--------------------
102101? Hmmmm
Having a closed mind is a terrible way to go through life.
www.blackhawklanes.com
Post by: jls on December 28, 2006, 04:18:27 PM
quote:quote:
SIR, if dyno thane wants to play both ends against the middle, good for them.
when dist. and pro shops find out about it, they then can choose if they want to deal with that type of company.
Did you not read a thing that he just wrote?
He needs to order a size that is custom made. I.E. a size that would not make good fiscal sense for a distributor to stock. There's a good chance it would actually cost more money for everyone involved to make that size available in the mainstream consumer pipeline due to the cost of inventory & the added administrative costs.
But then again, why should you care jls? You don't even have a profile filled out so who gives a flying one.
i care, we stock dyno thane shoes, and we care and give a flying whatever.
so don't get on your high horse with me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
these shoes are pro shop only, and if they want to sell to him, i have no problem with that.
we will just stop stocking them ok with you mr high and mighty!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--------------------
jls31316
Post by: Raven829 on December 28, 2006, 04:25:55 PM
quote:
i care, we stock dyno thane shoes, and we care and give a flying whatever.
so don't get on your high horse with me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
these shoes are pro shop only, and if they want to sell to him, i have no problem with that.
we will just stop stocking them ok with you mr high and mighty!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--------------------
jls31316
Are you really that ignorant? We're telling you that if you had a customer that wanted a pair of size 14 or larger, you would not be able to call a distributor and get them for said customer. If I had called D/T asking about a pair if size 13 or smaller I'm sure they would have told me to contact my local pro shop. If you choose not to stock a great product for your customers because the company sold a custom size to an individual, then it is a wonder how you stay in business. Unbelievable.
Don
--------------------
"On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage. Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me. The problem we have to address more than anything is the home run problem."
~Dusty Baker being a total fool
Post by: jls on December 28, 2006, 04:38:05 PM
quote:quote:
SIR, if dyno thane wants to play both ends against the middle, good for them.
when dist. and pro shops find out about it, they then can choose if they want to deal with that type of company.
Did you not read a thing that he just wrote?
He needs to order a size that is custom made. I.E. a size that would not make good fiscal sense for a distributor to stock. There's a good chance it would actually cost more money for everyone involved to make that size available in the mainstream consumer pipeline due to the cost of inventory & the added administrative costs.
But then again, why should you care jls? You don't even have a profile filled out so who gives a flying one.
the order could have gone thru the dist. it's been done before.
if this was your job or livelyhood, you would be singing a different story.
but because it's the pro shops, you don't care!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
well guess what, i don't care either. my dist. has allready contacted me about this. they have a very large inventory, and i don't believe they are very happy to hear how dyno thane is selling out the back door.
it's so easy for you to judge, it's not your money. do you know how much we have to pay for these dyno thane shoes???????????????/big bucks sir.
so that's why we care, and if you don't like it. that's too bad!!!!!!!!!!!!
--------------------
jls31316
Post by: jls on December 28, 2006, 04:41:48 PM
quote:quote:
i care, we stock dyno thane shoes, and we care and give a flying whatever.
so don't get on your high horse with me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
these shoes are pro shop only, and if they want to sell to him, i have no problem with that.
we will just stop stocking them ok with you mr high and mighty!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--------------------
jls31316
Are you really that ignorant? We're telling you that if you had a customer that wanted a pair of size 14 or larger, you would not be able to call a distributor and get them for said customer. If I had called D/T asking about a pair if size 13 or smaller I'm sure they would have told me to contact my local pro shop. If you choose not to stock a great product for your customers because the company sold a custom size to an individual, then it is a wonder how you stay in business. Unbelievable.
Don
--------------------
"On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage. Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me. The problem we have to address more than anything is the home run problem."
~Dusty Baker being a total fool
first sir, i am not the one who paid for something and still has not received it, so watch the name calling>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
if you can call dyno thane, then a dist. can call them and place an order for a size 14, so your arguement does not fly.
what dyno thane did here is simple. they want to play both ends against the middle. and when you do that, you get burned!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
hope you get your shoes or money back soon. but knock off the name calling.
and as for selling quality shoes>>>> we also stock dexter!!!!!!!
i think, we will be ok!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--------------------
jls31316
Edited on 12/28/2006 5:57 PM
Post by: jls on December 28, 2006, 04:55:41 PM
quote:
I hope they get your issue resolved soon Raven, anytime I have contacted DT the result has been great and I'm sure they will get this straightened out. I applaud DT for helping you out I doubt other companies would have taken stock made for the professionals or their staffers and made them available. I do not know anyone personally that wears a size 14 shoe so I wouldn't think there is a very big demand to mass produce them. jls31316 is just another troll looking to stir things up.
--------------------
102101? Hmmmm
Having a closed mind is a terrible way to go through life.
www.blackhawklanes.com
first of all sir, we happen to stock many size 14 and 15 shoes. so your arguement does not fly. and if a consumer can call dyno, then one of their large dist. can get thru too!!!!!!!!!!!!!
if this was your livelyhood, you would be taking a differnet attitude towards it. but because this effects pro shops, you simply don't care!!!!!
now go back to starbucks and drink your coffee. " troll" is that geek talk???
--------------------
jls31316
Post by: jls on December 28, 2006, 05:01:25 PM
--------------------
jls31316
Post by: alex on December 28, 2006, 05:11:12 PM
Post by: Dynoboy on December 28, 2006, 05:23:45 PM
Post by: The Hunkster on December 28, 2006, 05:25:47 PM
Post by: jls on December 28, 2006, 05:30:26 PM
for a customer. they are not being made anymore. i contacted many dist. before finding one that had a size 14 left in stock. that was cal's.
i probably spent at least an hour or more trying to find these shoes for the customer. and when i did, we made about $10.00 on the sale.
the point you ask???? it wasn't about money, it was about helping a customer find a pair of shoes. and since cal's is not our regular dist. and since they are on the west coast, we had more freight involved with this order.
as i said before, we stock several shoes in size 14 and 15. and we sell many of them, especially at this time of year. so saying that this customer needed a size 14, and no pro shops have them, does not fly. we stock them and if we don't, we will call dist. to see if we can find them.
now raven, i am sorry you have not received your order. and i hope you get it resolved real soon. but dyno thane should have told you to call one of their dist., and have them place the order. that's the correct way to do it.
what they have done here is shown pro shops that they want to play both ends against the middle.
now again, nothing against you, you did nothing wrong. but try to understand
it from the pro shop's point of view. when a company sells out the back door,
how can a pro shop or any business trust them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i am sure in your line of work, if this happened, you would see my point.
--------------------
jls31316
Edited on 12/28/2006 6:31 PM
Post by: jls on December 28, 2006, 05:41:55 PM
quote:quote:
SIR, if dyno thane wants to play both ends against the middle, good for them.
when dist. and pro shops find out about it, they then can choose if they want to deal with that type of company.
Did you not read a thing that he just wrote?
He needs to order a size that is custom made. I.E. a size that would not make good fiscal sense for a distributor to stock. There's a good chance it would actually cost more money for everyone involved to make that size available in the mainstream consumer pipeline due to the cost of inventory & the added administrative costs.
But then again, why should you care jls? You don't even have a profile filled out so who gives a flying one.
sir a size 14 that is in stock, is not a custom made shoe. it's allready made, it was not custom fitted to him like a pair of "custom made linds"
he simply needed a size 14. and that could have been handled by any real pro shop or online dealer!!!
we do it many times during the season.
what dyno thane did was wrong, helping the customer is ok. they should have simply said contact one of our dist. but they did not.
and that sir, is a company that one can not trust!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and while all of this was going on, my girl just sold a pair of tour ultra's
size 11 in white and silver. and she asked me if she should re order them for stock.
you don't want to hear my answer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--------------------
jls31316
Edited on 12/28/2006 6:42 PM
Post by: SpareK on December 28, 2006, 05:58:27 PM
A>A
Post by: Raven829 on December 28, 2006, 07:38:57 PM
quote:
Raven,,why put up with that poor service? I'd cancel the oredr and pay a little more for some one else's shoes. As a consumer that is the only way to display your dissatisfaction with their poor service. Of course that just my opinion.
A>A
It's basically because I've heard nothing bad about the Tour Ultras and wanted to give them a try. I have a pair of SST 6's that are O.K., but breaking in their soles and heels is a royal pain for me. Believe me, if I knew I would get the runaround like this I would have tried either Linds or Etonics. I figure that I've invested this much time now, I might as well see it out to the end. Unless that end is more than a couple more weeks away.
Don
--------------------
"On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage. Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me. The problem we have to address more than anything is the home run problem."
~Dusty Baker being a total fool
Post by: golfnutFL on December 28, 2006, 08:53:04 PM
quote:quote:
Raven,,why put up with that poor service? I'd cancel the oredr and pay a little more for some one else's shoes. As a consumer that is the only way to display your dissatisfaction with their poor service. Of course that just my opinion.
A>A
It's basically because I've heard nothing bad about the Tour Ultras and wanted to give them a try. I have a pair of SST 6's that are O.K., but breaking in their soles and heels is a royal pain for me. Believe me, if I knew I would get the runaround like this I would have tried either Linds or Etonics. I figure that I've invested this much time now, I might as well see it out to the end. Unless that end is more than a couple more weeks away.
Don
--------------------
"On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage. Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me. The problem we have to address more than anything is the home run problem."
~Dusty Baker being a total fool
--------------------
Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference.
Post by: golfnutFL on December 28, 2006, 09:03:40 PM
You are refusing to accept the current (and future) market reality. I hope that you can stay in business with your philosophies, as outdated as they may be.
So don't sell any DT products, your customers that want them will get them elsewhere and you'll lose more money.
quote:quote:quote:
SIR, if dyno thane wants to play both ends against the middle, good for them.
when dist. and pro shops find out about it, they then can choose if they want to deal with that type of company.
Did you not read a thing that he just wrote?
He needs to order a size that is custom made. I.E. a size that would not make good fiscal sense for a distributor to stock. There's a good chance it would actually cost more money for everyone involved to make that size available in the mainstream consumer pipeline due to the cost of inventory & the added administrative costs.
But then again, why should you care jls? You don't even have a profile filled out so who gives a flying one.
sir a size 14 that is in stock, is not a custom made shoe. it's already made, it was not custom fitted to him like a pair of "custom made linds"
he simply needed a size 14. and that could have been handled by any real pro shop or online dealer!!!
we do it many times during the season.
what dyno thane did was wrong, helping the customer is ok. they should have simply said contact one of our dist. but they did not.
and that sir, is a company that one can not trust!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and while all of this was going on, my girl just sold a pair of tour ultra's
size 11 in white and silver. and she asked me if she should re order them for stock.
you don't want to hear my answer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--------------------
jls31316
Edited on 12/28/2006 6:42 PM
--------------------
Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference.
Post by: inslyx on December 28, 2006, 09:08:30 PM
quote:
sixcracker, just recently i was able to find a pair of size 14, dexter sst 6,
for a customer. they are not being made anymore. i contacted many dist. before finding one that had a size 14 left in stock. that was cal's.
i probably spent at least an hour or more trying to find these shoes for the customer. and when i did, we made about $10.00 on the sale.
the point you ask???? it wasn't about money, it was about helping a customer find a pair of shoes. and since cal's is not our regular dist. and since they are on the west coast, we had more freight involved with this order.
as i said before, we stock several shoes in size 14 and 15. and we sell many of them, especially at this time of year. so saying that this customer needed a size 14, and no pro shops have them, does not fly. we stock them and if we don't, we will call dist. to see if we can find them.
now raven, i am sorry you have not received your order. and i hope you get it resolved real soon. but dyno thane should have told you to call one of their dist., and have them place the order. that's the correct way to do it.
what they have done here is shown pro shops that they want to play both ends against the middle.
now again, nothing against you, you did nothing wrong. but try to understand
it from the pro shop's point of view. when a company sells out the back door,
how can a pro shop or any business trust them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i am sure in your line of work, if this happened, you would see my point.
--------------------
jls31316
Edited on 12/28/2006 6:31 PM
With that attitude, I'm not surprised at all you're so worried about your business, as it doesn't seem like it's being ran very well anyways.
Post by: 302efi on December 28, 2006, 09:30:54 PM
- Ebonite
- Hammer (since Ebonite makes it, I assume)
- Dynothane Shoes
- Dynothane Balls (since the shoe problem)
Since the head of Track is also the head of Dynothane, you might as well not stock Track either !
...and since Columbia makes Dynothane's balls, why stock Columbia ?!
...Now that Columbia makes Lane #1's gear and Storm's low-end pieces, don't stock them either !
...Don't forget about Circle's Shoes and balls, can't stock them either cause Columbia makes them !
When it's all said and done, damn you sure do have a well stocked proshop !
ROFL @ You !
Shop smarter & cheaper, buy directly from the manufacturer and online!
Erase the middle man !
--------------------
Roto-Grip & Lane #1
When faced with a difficult situation, Jesus asks himself, "What would Chuck Norris do?"
Robo-Arm bowlers SUCK...
Edited on 12/28/2006 10:31 PM
Post by: stormerjip on December 28, 2006, 10:46:32 PM
jls where on here does it say that they produce in sz 14 and here he states Mr. Yinger has the larger sizes specially made for professionals which would be anything over the sz 13 that is produced
--------------------
show no mercy, kill the wounded, eat the dead
regional PBA member since 05
Post by: shelley on December 28, 2006, 10:52:52 PM
"Oh, a good pro shop will go that extra mile to make the sale". You're probably right. I would hope you're right. But should a customer be at the whim of a lazy pro shop operator? Should a customer be satisfied with "I can't get that for you"?
I agree that cutting the pro shop out by selling directly to the customer is bad for pro shops, and I can't argue that pro shops are not critical to the sport. But a lazy pro shop doesn't deserve the business, and if the company can serve the company when he can't be helped locally, what's the problem?
SH
Post by: jls on December 29, 2006, 08:04:54 AM
but when someone else feels that they have been taken by dyno thane, were no good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! if it happens to you or one of your friends on this site, it's ok for you to bash dyno thane???? but a pro shop that may stock 10-15 pairs of their shoes at $1875.00, we can't complain when we find out that they are selling out the back door to every tom dick and harry with a credit card!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
not to forget the balls from them that we may stock!!!!!!
you wrote this post so we would all see what dyno did to poor little you.
but when i a pro shop respond and say, sorry this happened to you and hope you get it resolved, however dyno should not have sold you these shoes in the first place>>>>>>>>>>>>> i am bad guy.
by doing this dyno has shown that they are a back door company. their are hurting their dist. >>>> and pro shops.
do you really believe that you are the only one in the whole world that bought something from dyno thane???? are you for real????
if they sold it to you, that tells me that they are probably doing it for many other people. and as a pro shop, i don't like it. it's not right.
and i will let as many pro shops know about it. and then they can choose for themselves if they wish to sell dyno products!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
the owner of my dist. was concerned. he wrote me about it.
as i said before, if it happens to you, it's a big deal, but if a pro shop or dist. don't feel that this is right. were the bad guys??????????????
now we have been doing this for over 30 years, so please don't worry about us.
worry about getting your money back or your shoes!!!!!!!
you remind me of the guy that does not feel he should have to wait in line at the bank, grocery store or starbucks. and you probably want you own lane on the expressway. poor baby when it's you, and screw anyone else if it's them.
you know what that makes you????????????????????
dnyo should have referred you to one of their LOYAL dist. who in turn would have referred you to a pro shop in your area. these shoes are not custom made.
there are just sizes that dyno orders for some of their staffers with big feet.
would not look good to have your staffers wearing sst's
and now that they probably have new models coming, they wanted to get rid of these. no problem with that!!!!!!!!!!!! but they should have done the right thing and refer you to a dist,
last month a customer called Cal's about the dark thunder pearl. Cal's would not sell it to them. the customer asked me about it. and since i did not deal with cal's, i went online and found someone who had the balls>> buddies pro shop, i believe. and referred the customer to them.
the point, Cal's honor the pro shops>>>> when i did not have it, i went and found someone who did and referred the customer to them>>> buddies pro shop.
customer was happy>>>> did i make the sale??? no, buddies pro shop did. was my customer happy? yes, gee maybe that's why we have been in business for over 30 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
you write a post so all can see that you< poor baby got taken!!!! that's ok,
but if a small pro shop feels that we got taken>>>> were no good.
you give new meaning to the word!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--------------------
jls31316
Post by: jls on December 29, 2006, 08:18:04 AM
chad you also give new meaning to the word.
and you buddy tiger has till 5pm to announce if he is playing next week. you know the 2007 season, you know the one he said he needed rest for, before going to china and japan.
wild guess, he won't be there next week....
actually, this time >>> don't blame him.
--------------------
jls31316
Post by: scotts33 on December 29, 2006, 08:31:53 AM
--------------------
Scott
Post by: Jorge300 on December 29, 2006, 08:35:30 AM
I was hoping that might snap you back into reality. This is a one off product, not sold to distributors. No distributor would carry it and no distributor would even know it's made. As far as they know, Tour Ultras are only made to size 13. So all your calling would have done no good. Other brands do make more then a handful of larger sizes. They are larger companies and can afford to spend capital on items that are not as popular. So in the case of the Dexter's, the distributor had a pair or would have been able to get a pair, not the case with the TU's.
Now, based on your other posts in other threads, I find it highly unlikely that you even own or run a proshop. I maybe wrong, but I doubt it. You just like to stir up trouble. You and LuckyLefty are just two peas in a pod. DO you also think people are conspiring against you, and that all these posters are just the same person under different ID's? Why don't you grow up a little, well in your case a lot.
Now, back to your problem Raven. I don't have much new to add, hope it gets resolved soon. Maybe you could try giving Mr. Yinger a call again and explain to him what has been going on. Not sure he can help, but another avenue to get your complaint heard. I do think Mr. Yinger has the ear of Mr. Cardinale, which may also help expedite the process. Good Luck.
--------------------
Jorge300
"Ray, next time someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!!"
Post by: jls on December 29, 2006, 08:50:30 AM
quote:quote:
typical chad. it's ok if you get taken, but if a pro shop feels taken and stands up for his rights, were no good>>>>
--------------------
jls31316
JLS you might want to be more concerned with your education instead of bad mouthing companies I think the correct word you were looking for is "we're".
Besides get over it DT did the right thing otherwise the way I see it there would be no way Raven could have gotten these (when he does) if he wouldn't have called DT on his own. Allowing one individual to get one pair of shoes is much different than selling to a single pro shop.
--------------------
Speak the Truth
Edited on 12/29/2006 9:42 AM
that's not true, if dyno had them, then any dist. could have ordered them.
are you for real. you think dyno would say NO to a dist. that stocks tons of their product>>>> yet be willing to sell any tom dick or harry????
are you for real?????????????????
this was back door selling done by dyno thane. it's not right.
i 'll bet you taylor or callaway or titleist would not do it>>>>>>>>>>>>>
oh i forgot, they are class outfits!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and we should not be comparing them to dyno thane.
and learn to read sonny, cause my problems were not with ebonite, they were with their dist. you think your you are so cute with youe english crap.
learn to understand what you read. i said ebonite products have never sold so well as the are selling now. in my shop!!!! my complaint is and always has been with their dist. who football their product.
now go back to school and learn to understand what you think you are reading.
you are, your, get a life!!!!!!!!!!!
--------------------
jls31316
Post by: jls on December 29, 2006, 08:58:49 AM
after all they GOT HIS CREDIT CARD NUMBER,
and according to raven, they must have his number on caller id, cause they ain't taking his calls. bad dale, bad!!!!!
what do you think???? good idea,
but, don't worry about the knife in the backs of the dyno thane dist. or the foolish loyal pro shops like me who stock their product.
we be fine!!!!!!!!!!!!
--------------------
jls31316
Post by: jls on December 29, 2006, 09:01:44 AM
quote:
What pro shop was that again, jls?
--------------------quote:
it's ok for you to post about tiger, what he said, and when i post about what he didn't say, i am liar.
-name removed due to a request from management 11/9/06 *It is still funny*
what rock was that???
--------------------
jls31316
Post by: jls on December 29, 2006, 09:04:52 AM
quote:quote:
The only reason that they sold directly to me is because they had a very limited supply of a product I wanted, in stock, that they do not sell to distributors. They do not mass produce any shoes over a size 13. Mr. Yinger has the larger sizes specially made for professionals. This was made clear to me when I talked to the first lady. She had problems finding my name because I was not a distributor or pro. She told me that they do not normally sell directly to the public.
Don
--------------------
"On-base percentage is great if you can score runs and do something with that on-base percentage. Clogging up the bases isn't that great to me. The problem we have to address more than anything is the home run problem."
~Dusty Baker being a total fool
Read this again JLS and let us know what part you do not understand. Maybe someone will take the time and explain it to you.
--------------------
Speak the Truth
are you really this stupid or is this an act.
lets say nike made an extra pair of shoes for tiger, do you really think that they will sell them to you, cause tiger did not need them>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
lets say titleist made some extra gloves for davis, do you really think that they will sell them to you?????
are you for real??????????????????????
the answer is no>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
a class company will not do that>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
what is it that you can't understand?????????????????????????????????/
do you live with chad??? or are you chad????????????????????????/
be gone child.
--------------------
jls31316
Post by: ClutchClay on December 29, 2006, 09:07:53 AM
--------------------
Regards, ClutchClay
Ball review spreadsheet available at http://www.allBowling.com/downloads/Balls.xls.
Post by: jls on December 29, 2006, 09:09:46 AM
quote:
All I know is that jls has made my ignore list.
--------------------
Regards, ClutchClay
Ball review spreadsheet available at http://www.allBowling.com/downloads/Balls.xls.
great, now hopefully i will make chads also.
oh i am crushed, i made his ignore list, can life go on???????????????
what a loser!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
--------------------
jls31316
Post by: bamaster on December 29, 2006, 09:13:33 AM
The only way to get larger sizes or widths is direct from Dyno-thane. Period. I suppose DT can be accused of being evil by offering a size they don't stock, but hey, JLS seems to know more about Dyno-thane's inventory and distribution model than me.
Billy Yinger is the Tour Rep for Columbia, so that means he travels all the time. He's hard to get a hold of, even for me. I'd track down Garber if I were you. The holidays are throwing everything off. So best of luck!
--------------------
Tony
My Bowling Classifieds (http://"http://www.allbowling.com/classifieds/showcat.php?cat=500&ppuser=3")
My Bowling Journal (http://"http://www.allbowling.com/journal/public.php?uid=3&leagueid=1") | My Ball Registry & Grip Specs (http://"http://www.allbowling.com/registry/public.php?regid=5")
Post by: Juggernaut on December 29, 2006, 09:14:44 AM
Sorry to hijack this way, but I just can't stand it. Hope you get your shoes and I hope you LOVE them. I wish you had bought two pair, just to hack this guy off twice as much.
jls31316,
Do us ALLa favor please? Fill out a profile telling us EXACTLY who you are and EXACTLY where your from. Also, please add the name of your business and its location.
This way, I, and you, can rest assured that I will NEVER, not even accidentally, buy ANYTHING from you. CALLING YOURSELF A PROSHOP DOES REAL PROSHOPS A DIS-SERVICE! I know, I used to run one until the owner moved. It's about customer service, not about losing your freaking mind over one pair of shoes. Get a grip man.
All this over one, lousy, stinking pair of shoes that you couldn't have gotten anyway because the distributors wouldn't have even known they existed, and even if they did, the customer would then have had to pay the added, ignorant, jacked-up price to go through the distributor AND you. After the distributor got his mark-up, and you got yours, no telling HOW MUCH the customer would have to fork over for what I'm sure you would have told him was a CUSTOM order on a HARD TO FIND item.
You are a jerk. A jerk who is now on my ignore list.
P.S. Just because of you, I am now going to go buy two dynothane balls. I had been looking at them, but this clinches the deal. They obviously care about trying to help the consumer, you obviously are worried about milking him for every cent you can get your grubby little hands on. Screw whether he can get what he needs or not. If YOU can't sell it to him, then I guess he shouldn't be able to get it then, HUH?
Goodbye, LOSER!
--------------------
"TOO SOON THE POWER, TOO LATE THE WISDOM"
Post by: jls on December 29, 2006, 09:17:13 AM
quote:
First of all JLS if you have read any of my other postings you would know I am all about sticking up for the american people or the so called little guy. I buy all my equipment wether it is my wifes or any other member of my family from my local pro shop. This is a special shoe that raven is talking about that was not available through any other avenue.
--------------------
Speak the Truth
wow, i must not have read that.
ok forget i said anything about dyno thane. i am sorry.
but i have allread with the push of a button, have let pro shops know about what dyno thane did.
to quote are good friends at ebonite, " pro shops use their computors like scud missiles "
some how i feel that many pro shops will not share the views of some of you on this site. i know our dist. seem concerned.
the point is not if these shoes are a stock item or not, the point is that dyno thane deals with dist. only!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
see the titleist, callway, nike examples!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and yes, any dist. could have ordered these shoes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
what dyno thane did was wrong, simply wrong. sorry you can't understand loyalty.
you know what clinton did, that was wrong also. to his wife!!!!! to me, it was non of my concern. but it was wrong to his wife.
and what dyno thane did is wrong to their dist.
you can't see that?????????????????????
--------------------
jls31316
Post by: bamaster on December 29, 2006, 09:20:34 AM
--------------------
Tony
My Bowling Classifieds (http://"http://www.allbowling.com/classifieds/showcat.php?cat=500&ppuser=3")
My Bowling Journal (http://"http://www.allbowling.com/journal/public.php?uid=3&leagueid=1") | My Ball Registry & Grip Specs (http://"http://www.allbowling.com/registry/public.php?regid=5")
Post by: jls on December 29, 2006, 09:22:58 AM
quote:
Raven,
Sorry to hijack this way, but I just can't stand it. Hope you get your shoes and I hope you LOVE them. I wish you had bought two pair, just to hack this guy off twice as much.
jls31316,
Do us ALLa favor please? Fill out a profile telling us EXACTLY who you are and EXACTLY where your from. Also, please add the name of your business and its location.
This way, I, and you, can rest assured that I will NEVER, not even accidentally, buy ANYTHING from you. CALLING YOURSELF A PROSHOP DOES REAL PROSHOPS A DIS-SERVICE! I know, I used to run one until the owner moved. It's about customer service, not about losing your freaking mind over one pair of shoes. Get a grip man.
All this over one, lousy, stinking pair of shoes that you couldn't have gotten anyway because the distributors wouldn't have even known they existed, and even if they did, the customer would then have had to pay the added, ignorant, jacked-up price to go through the distributor AND you. After the distributor got his mark-up, and you got yours, no telling HOW MUCH the customer would have to fork over for what I'm sure you would have told him was a CUSTOM order on a HARD TO FIND item.
You are a jerk. A jerk who is now on my ignore list.
P.S. Just because of you, I am now going to go buy two dynothane balls. I had been looking at them, but this clinches the deal. They obviously care about trying to help the consumer, you obviously are worried about milking him for every cent you can get your grubby little hands on. Screw whether he can get what he needs or not. If YOU can't sell it to him, then I guess he shouldn't be able to get it then, HUH?
Goodbye, LOSER!
--------------------
"TOO SOON THE POWER, TOO LATE THE WISDOM"
if i cared 2 cents worth about you view, i would be crushed.
I DON'T.
if dealing with company that will back stap their dist is ok with you, go for it.
and chances are, you probably are still using a 1989 rhino. buy two dyno thanes>>>>>>>>>>>>> ya right. you going to use raven's card.
and tell all your friends, all 2 of them.
--------------------
jls31316
Post by: clintdaley on December 29, 2006, 09:26:24 AM
I can relate in not being able to find shoes, I wear 14s/15s..however, one phone call, and I was able to find at one of my dists a 14 Dexter SST7 left handed....now THAT can not be a popular size and left handed...but they had plenty on the shelf.
The future of the sport is for pro shops to be a service oriented industry. Not a product driven business. Until then, there needs to be some sort of standard of how products are delivered through the distribution channels.
There is a problem when I can't buy from a manufacturer, a customer can not buy from a distributor, but the customer can buy direct with the manufacturer? The proper means would have been for the local shop to call the dist, have the dist call the manufacturer to place the order, have the manufacturer bill the dist, but drop ship the item to the local pro shop and have the dist bill the pro shop and then the customer pays the pro shop. Then, the pro shop is protected, the distributor is protected, the manufacturer did not sell direct to the public as they should not, and the customer still gets their shoes as promised. PLUS....if this was billed to a distributor, and they were promised an item over 2 weeks ago and it was not delivered or even shipped yet, but yet they had paid for it and one of their shops paid them for it already, the manufacturer would have MORE HEAT on themselves to get the product out and Raven would not be in the mess he is in. Its a shame one order was overlooked, but, if this was a large dist, I guarantee this would not have been overlooked or whatever else is going on.
Clint
--------------------
Clint Daley-Owner
Lets Go Bowling Daley
Inside Hunt Club Lanes
Salem, Ohio 44460
MoRich pro shop staff
www.letsgobowlingdaley.com
I NOW ACCEPT ALL CREDIT CARDS, NO MORE NEED FOR PAYPAL OR MONEY ORDERS IF WE DON'T HAVE TO....JUST PM ME TO GET MY SHOP NUMBER TO COMPLETE THE TRANSACTION!
Post by: clintdaley on December 29, 2006, 09:36:13 AM
--------------------
Clint Daley-Owner
Lets Go Bowling Daley
Inside Hunt Club Lanes
Salem, Ohio 44460
MoRich pro shop staff
www.letsgobowlingdaley.com
I NOW ACCEPT ALL CREDIT CARDS, NO MORE NEED FOR PAYPAL OR MONEY ORDERS IF WE DON'T HAVE TO....JUST PM ME TO GET MY SHOP NUMBER TO COMPLETE THE TRANSACTION!
Post by: jls on December 29, 2006, 09:37:31 AM
quote:
While I may not agree with everything, what comes across my mind here is 2 things. 1. If they are doing this now, while they SAY this is a one time thing, is it? 2. How many other companies are doing this "one time"....
I can relate in not being able to find shoes, I wear 14s/15s..however, one phone call, and I was able to find at one of my dists a 14 Dexter SST7 left handed....now THAT can not be a popular size and left handed...but they had plenty on the shelf.
The future of the sport is for pro shops to be a service oriented industry. Not a product driven business. Until then, there needs to be some sort of standard of how products are delivered through the distribution channels.
There is a problem when I can't buy from a manufacturer, a customer can not buy from a distributor, but the customer can buy direct with the manufacturer? The proper means would have been for the local shop to call the dist, have the dist call the manufacturer to place the order, have the manufacturer bill the dist, but drop ship the item to the local pro shop and have the dist bill the pro shop and then the customer pays the pro shop. Then, the pro shop is protected, the distributor is protected, the manufacturer did not sell direct to the public as they should not, and the customer still gets their shoes as promised. PLUS....if this was billed to a distributor, and they were promised an item over 2 weeks ago and it was not delivered or even shipped yet, but yet they had paid for it and one of their shops paid them for it already, the manufacturer would have MORE HEAT on themselves to get the product out and Raven would not be in the mess he is in. Its a shame one order was overlooked, but, if this was a large dist, I guarantee this would not have been overlooked or whatever else is going on.
Clint
--------------------
Clint Daley-Owner
Lets Go Bowling Daley
Inside Hunt Club Lanes
Salem, Ohio 44460
MoRich pro shop staff
www.letsgobowlingdaley.com
I NOW ACCEPT ALL CREDIT CARDS, NO MORE NEED FOR PAYPAL OR MONEY ORDERS IF WE DON'T HAVE TO....JUST PM ME TO GET MY SHOP NUMBER TO COMPLETE THE TRANSACTION!
NOW CLINT, DO YOU REALIZE THAT CHAD AND HIS BUDDIES MIGHT PUT YOU ON THEIR IGNOIRE LIST BECAUSE IT APPEARS THAT YOU ALSO FEEL THAT THIS IS NOT RIGHT.
so please people, don't take this out on clint. clint is a nice guy and runs a class pro shop. and does some online sales.
but the point is that clint is one of the first pro shops to maybe see this.
and it appears to me, that he does not improve of it either.
so clint i hope that the bully, chad does not attack you, i don't care if he attacks me, cause i know what chad is. but i really would not like to see him attack you, because you might share the same business common sense as i do.
there are a lot of people on this site that care only about themselves.
and when a pro shops defends themselves, we are the bad guys.
but when poor raven gets screwed, it's ok with them if he bash's dyno thane.
these people are all you know whats>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
if we the pro shop get the short end, they don't care, but if they lose 2 cents, the whole world will know about it.
they are all for themselves and don't care anything about anyone else.
--------------------
jls31316
Post by: clintdaley on December 29, 2006, 09:37:40 AM
Thats a great question. I have no clue (but will look in a minute online) if my dist has them available. Even if they don't, I still beileve the product should be bileld through the dist, etc, and not sold direct to the client.
Get back to u in a minute!
Clint
--------------------
Clint Daley-Owner
Lets Go Bowling Daley
Inside Hunt Club Lanes
Salem, Ohio 44460
MoRich pro shop staff
www.letsgobowlingdaley.com
I NOW ACCEPT ALL CREDIT CARDS, NO MORE NEED FOR PAYPAL OR MONEY ORDERS IF WE DON'T HAVE TO....JUST PM ME TO GET MY SHOP NUMBER TO COMPLETE THE TRANSACTION!
Post by: clintdaley on December 29, 2006, 09:46:56 AM
I still believe the order needs to be placed by the dist..etc etc as I already explained, but what the hey, for all I care, ship direct to the customer or to the pro shop....
This may not be apples to apples, but as many of you know, I am a stock broker during the day. My client just can't call the exchange or one of my traders to buy a stock, he/she has to call me, and in turn, I place the trade with my traders on the floor. If I am away from the office, they have to talk to another broker here...still can't call my traders or the exchange....
Clint
--------------------
Clint Daley-Owner
Lets Go Bowling Daley
Inside Hunt Club Lanes
Salem, Ohio 44460
MoRich pro shop staff
www.letsgobowlingdaley.com
I NOW ACCEPT ALL CREDIT CARDS, NO MORE NEED FOR PAYPAL OR MONEY ORDERS IF WE DON'T HAVE TO....JUST PM ME TO GET MY SHOP NUMBER TO COMPLETE THE TRANSACTION!
Post by: jls on December 29, 2006, 09:46:57 AM
and pigs can not fly.
but they don't care about our problems, just theirs.
I DON'T TAKE THEM SERIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!
thanks
--------------------
jls31316
Post by: clintdaley on December 29, 2006, 09:49:21 AM
--------------------
Clint Daley-Owner
Lets Go Bowling Daley
Inside Hunt Club Lanes
Salem, Ohio 44460
MoRich pro shop staff
www.letsgobowlingdaley.com
I NOW ACCEPT ALL CREDIT CARDS, NO MORE NEED FOR PAYPAL OR MONEY ORDERS IF WE DON'T HAVE TO....JUST PM ME TO GET MY SHOP NUMBER TO COMPLETE THE TRANSACTION!
Post by: T Brockette on December 29, 2006, 09:54:37 AM
What I think Jls is trying to say is that if someone came into his shop to order size 14 dynoroo's, even though he could get them direct from the manufacturer, he would have his distributor order them. Basically going thru the chain so that everyone makes their money. That is what I am getting out of this (trying to read the problem and not the insults flying around)
What I haven't seen asked is price! Did the manufacturer sell to the public at cost? Did they sell at what the distributor would pay? I think this would be a question I would be asking as a shop operator. Once again, not taking sides or adding to the arguement.
--------------------
Tracy
Lane#1 Mafia Enforcer...........All other balls sleeps with the fishes.
FOS - Simple.....To the point....Nuff said.
Post by: 102101 on December 29, 2006, 10:16:17 AM
--------------------
102101? Hmmmm
Having a closed mind is a terrible way to go through life.
www.blackhawklanes.com
Post by: Jorge300 on December 29, 2006, 10:39:14 AM
quote:
I just checked with my online dist, and they do NOT have anything over size 13s listed for any of the Tour Ultras. Heck, I even just went to Buddies, and they don't have anything listed over 13s as well.
I still believe the order needs to be placed by the dist..etc etc as I already explained, but what the hey, for all I care, ship direct to the customer or to the pro shop....
This may not be apples to apples, but as many of you know, I am a stock broker during the day. My client just can't call the exchange or one of my traders to buy a stock, he/she has to call me, and in turn, I place the trade with my traders on the floor. If I am away from the office, they have to talk to another broker here...still can't call my traders or the exchange....
Clint
--------------------
Clint Daley-Owner
Lets Go Bowling Daley
Inside Hunt Club Lanes
Salem, Ohio 44460
MoRich pro shop staff
www.letsgobowlingdaley.com
I NOW ACCEPT ALL CREDIT CARDS, NO MORE NEED FOR PAYPAL OR MONEY ORDERS IF WE DON'T HAVE TO....JUST PM ME TO GET MY SHOP NUMBER TO COMPLETE THE TRANSACTION!
Clint, I understand your point of view. But in this instance, this one case, unless the pro shop or distributor goes beyond the extra mile, Raven would have been told that they don't have this size. In your case, based on your posts, I think you would have done due diligence. I don't know your distributor, so i can't say if they would or not. But the point is, this is not a stock item. The catalog that most people see doesn't say that they make this size. It's not like he wanted an 11 or a 12. Now Dexter is a big enough company and diversified enough in different shoe types to make a 14/15 shoe and have it available at most distributors. But Raven wanted a specific shoe, that under everything available to distributors, proshops and the public, shows that it isn't made in that size.
A better example would be if you wanted say a size 20 Nike sneaker. Any store you go to, won't stock that size, and I am willing to bet that any distributor is not going to stock that size. What is the option for you if that's what you needed. You go to Nike directly, get a special order, and get your shoes. Are the stores complaining about this, no, because it is not something they carry. If this would become a way for someone to get a size 9, then yes stores would begin to get upset. If DT would sell items readily available in their catalog like this, then I agree you have the right to be upset, but not in this case.
--------------------
Jorge300
"Ray, next time someone asks you if you're a god, you say YES!!"
Post by: clintdaley on December 29, 2006, 10:46:08 AM
I think where the problem starts is not what happened here with Raven, but in essence of the whole internet thing going on, etc. Its sad when I can order from Buddies and pay for shipping and have product at my door in 2 days, and have it here cheaper than from my own dist I spent over $100,000 last year, and to Buddies, I am just another person, nothing special.
Clint
--------------------
Clint Daley-Owner
Lets Go Bowling Daley
Inside Hunt Club Lanes
Salem, Ohio 44460
MoRich pro shop staff
www.letsgobowlingdaley.com
I NOW ACCEPT ALL CREDIT CARDS, NO MORE NEED FOR PAYPAL OR MONEY ORDERS IF WE DON'T HAVE TO....JUST PM ME TO GET MY SHOP NUMBER TO COMPLETE THE TRANSACTION!
Post by: jls on December 29, 2006, 10:56:55 AM
quote:
Totally understand Jorge. Wearing size 15s like myself in street shoes/baseball shoes, etc, its not easy at all to find new shoes of ANY kind!
I think where the problem starts is not what happened here with Raven, but in essence of the whole internet thing going on, etc. Its sad when I can order from Buddies and pay for shipping and have product at my door in 2 days, and have it here cheaper than from my own dist I spent over $100,000 last year, and to Buddies, I am just another person, nothing special.
Clint
--------------------
Clint Daley-Owner
Lets Go Bowling Daley
Inside Hunt Club Lanes
Salem, Ohio 44460
MoRich pro shop staff
www.letsgobowlingdaley.com
I NOW ACCEPT ALL CREDIT CARDS, NO MORE NEED FOR PAYPAL OR MONEY ORDERS IF WE DON'T HAVE TO....JUST PM ME TO GET MY SHOP NUMBER TO COMPLETE THE TRANSACTION!
CLINT, the guy was right, we are not going to win this, these people only care about money in their pockets, not ours.
and did anyone notice. did chad say anything to raven about how he got treated. did chad bash dyno for the way they treated raven,
no........... all chad did is what he always does, bash jls.
he dosent care if raven got taken, he just wants to go after jls.
chad go back under yor rock>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
--------------------
jls31316
Post by: jls on December 29, 2006, 11:09:43 AM
quote:
jls, I never bashed you. What pro shop do you work at again? Or do you own it?
I am sorry the OP is being ignored by DT. I hope everything works out for him.
--------------------quote:
it's ok for you to post about tiger, what he said, and when i post about what he didn't say, i am liar.
-name removed due to a request from management 11/9/06 *It is still funny*
my pro shop is located in chicago, come here and let me know via this site, when your in town and i will give you directions>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ok and bring some of your friends that like to bash me also.
and i know dale, and have dealt with him for years at columbia, he runs the reward program and the elite pro shop program.
now whether you or any other basher believes this or not, i don't care.
call columbia 1 800 531-5920.
--------------------
jls31316
Post by: jls on December 29, 2006, 11:12:48 AM
quote:
I have friends in Chicago. Perhaps you could give me an address or phone number so I could verify what you are saying.
--------------------quote:
it's ok for you to post about tiger, what he said, and when i post about what he didn't say, i am liar.
-name removed due to a request from management 11/9/06 *It is still funny*
Edited on 12/29/2006 12:11 PM
to quote tommy lee jones.
you have friends??????????????????
that's funny.
--------------------
jls31316
Post by: jls on December 29, 2006, 11:23:12 AM
quote:
Yet you still claim I am the one doing the bashing?
--------------------quote:
it's ok for you to post about tiger, what he said, and when i post about what he didn't say, i am liar.
-name removed due to a request from management 11/9/06 *It is still funny*
your like a bad dream, every post i go to, your right behind me, going on the jls attack. you are a attack troll!!!!!
--------------------
jls31316
Post by: jls on December 29, 2006, 11:31:24 AM
they want their own line at the bank, the grocery store etc. they think their poo poo does not stink!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IT DOES.
--------------------
jls31316
Post by: clintdaley on December 29, 2006, 11:35:16 AM
Clint
--------------------
Clint Daley-Owner
Lets Go Bowling Daley
Inside Hunt Club Lanes
Salem, Ohio 44460
MoRich pro shop staff
www.letsgobowlingdaley.com
I NOW ACCEPT ALL CREDIT CARDS, NO MORE NEED FOR PAYPAL OR MONEY ORDERS IF WE DON'T HAVE TO....JUST PM ME TO GET MY SHOP NUMBER TO COMPLETE THE TRANSACTION!
Post by: clintdaley on December 29, 2006, 11:39:42 AM
Everyone wants the best deal possible...ME INCLUDED!!!! But at least do it so everyone has a shot at the business....
--------------------
Clint Daley-Owner
Lets Go Bowling Daley
Inside Hunt Club Lanes
Salem, Ohio 44460
MoRich pro shop staff
www.letsgobowlingdaley.com
I NOW ACCEPT ALL CREDIT CARDS, NO MORE NEED FOR PAYPAL OR MONEY ORDERS IF WE DON'T HAVE TO....JUST PM ME TO GET MY SHOP NUMBER TO COMPLETE THE TRANSACTION!
Post by: jls on December 29, 2006, 11:45:58 AM
quote:
I look at it this way.....I am a shopper, on 1 income, with 5 mouths to feed, so yes, I want the best deal possible on ANYTHING as well! yes, I shop at Wal-Mart, Target, etc...
Everyone wants the best deal possible...ME INCLUDED!!!! But at least do it so everyone has a shot at the business....
--------------------
Clint Daley-Owner
Lets Go Bowling Daley
Inside Hunt Club Lanes
Salem, Ohio 44460
MoRich pro shop staff
www.letsgobowlingdaley.com
I NOW ACCEPT ALL CREDIT CARDS, NO MORE NEED FOR PAYPAL OR MONEY ORDERS IF WE DON'T HAVE TO....JUST PM ME TO GET MY SHOP NUMBER TO COMPLETE THE TRANSACTION!
clint, they are all about themselves, and they care less about small pro shops, as long as they can surf the net in their underwear and drink starbucks coffee they are happy.
--------------------
jls31316
Post by: mrteach3 on December 29, 2006, 12:09:14 PM
--------------------
Who needs a 300 or 800, when I have a 294 and a 295!?!?!