Author Topic: Early timing / late timing (Read 3994 times)

BeerLeague · « **on:** January 16, 2020, 07:00:48 AM »

I need help !!! When my timing is working I am unstoppable. I honestly think I could average 230+ on a wall. I have good lane play strategy and can play anywhere on the lane. I go thru these spurts where EVERY shot i throw is a pull, so I tell myself my timing is early, so I make it later ... and everything is wide right.

As a 5 step approach bowler, with moderate hand and speed (400 RPM, @16.2 mph on good shots ..varies on how much hook, anything 17+ is usually bad ... spare shots on average are 21 mph and when timing is really on, I can hit 23.5 if I want) I do not slide much. I grew up in the Mark Roth plant/rip era.

What is good timing? I think maybe I am pulling down from the top of the swing

What are the typical culprits? I have seen a coach a while back but got nothing out of it.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Cornerpin · « **Reply #1 on:** January 16, 2020, 07:23:41 AM »

For what's it worth, I have struggled with similar issues with pulls and/or missing right and also thought it was related to my timing. Then I realized the main culprit was me losing my spine tilt when I released the ball, basically raising up at the line (even just a little), led me to tugging shots in. So, I have made it a point to concentrate on staying low at the line and/or just keeping my head in same position once I start the slide. This has really helped and now can keep my shots in similar "area" and have been scoring much better.

johns811 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 16, 2020, 07:55:39 AM »

I suggest having somebody make a video and post link to youtube.

BallReviews-Removed0385 · « **Reply #3 on:** January 16, 2020, 03:34:54 PM »

Quote from: BeerLeague on January 16, 2020, 07:00:48 AM

What is good timing? I think maybe I am pulling down from the top of the swing What are the typical culprits? I have seen a coach a while back but got nothing out of it.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Starting the downswing with your shoulder (pulling down) is a sure-fire way to miss inside. Why? Typically your shoulder will "lunge" forward and then it's difficult to not miss inside.

If you're right handed imagine your right shoulder staying behind your left one at release. For most of us this brings the ball right back under your shoulder and closer to your slide foot, instead of seeing a "bump" outside when the downswing starts and the bowler needing to manipulate too much to get the ball in the before-mentioned release spot.

Another way to say it is let gravity start the downswing. By freeing up the downswing you'll probably notice a better release with more consistent revs, too.

ignitebowling · « **Reply #4 on:** January 16, 2020, 08:34:05 PM »

Video would be more helpful

J_w73 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 17, 2020, 10:31:38 PM »

I don't know what to do, but I wouldn't go with the traditional "push the ball away on the first step" of a 4 step approach. I don't know if that is old school, but if you watch some videos of different PBA and PWBA pros, it seems they don't really get the ball into the swing until well on their way to their 2nd step or later(4 step approach). Check out the video of Daria Pajak and Chris Barnes. EDIT**** They start close to their 3rd step of a 5 step approach***

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SoIHq_b6RlI&t=87s When I focus on starting my swing a little later I tend to do better and stay behind and under the ball. When I get early I get on top of the ball and have no leverage.

ignitebowling · « **Reply #6 on:** January 17, 2020, 11:13:03 PM »

You're comparing 4 step approaches and when you should start the ball on your first step with pros starting their ball on the second step of a 5 step approach. Why?

J_w73 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 17, 2020, 11:26:15 PM »

Quote from: ignitebowling on January 17, 2020, 11:13:03 PM

You're comparing 4 step approaches and when you should start the ball on your first step with pros starting their ball on the second step of a 5 step approach. Why?

They are starting it on their 3rd step. So 2nd of a 4 step. Watch Barnes at 1:25. He doesn't move his ball until the start of his 3rd step. Daria is a little earlier with her moving the ball at the end of her 2nd step. They definitely aren't pushing the ball out with their 2nd step (1st step of a 4 step approach), which is what has always been taught for ages.

ignitebowling · « **Reply #8 on:** January 18, 2020, 09:12:57 AM »

Quote from: J_w73 on January 17, 2020, 11:26:15 PM

Quote from: ignitebowling on January 17, 2020, 11:13:03 PM
You're comparing 4 step approaches and when you should start the ball on your first step with pros starting their ball on the second step of a 5 step approach. Why?

They are starting it on their 3rd step. So 2nd of a 4 step. Watch Barnes at 1:25. He doesn't move his ball until the start of his 3rd step. Daria is a little earlier with her moving the ball at the end of her 2nd step. They definitely aren't pushing the ball out with their 2nd step (1st step of a 4 step approach), which is what has always been taught for ages.

Barnes used to start his in the second step and changed it to be later to create later timing in hopes of changing his release. Daria starts with the ball lower and has less movement starting it down in her second step. Its to get the ball through the leg vs around it. Allows for straighter armswing.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BrHRWavAgZL/?igshid=i4ccctue46cd

J_w73 · « **Reply #9 on:** January 18, 2020, 09:33:02 AM »

Good video. I was thinking about this more and to the original poster.. I think what notclay is saying about the shoulder is key. I don't think it is so much your timing but could be something as simple as where the early or late timing puts your shoulder. If you are early it probably moves your shoulder forward and then you pull it.. later and your shoulder is too far back and you miss right. If you get a hold of Mark Baker's The System video, it is all about getting your body in the correct positions throughout the approach and delivery. I think there is a section where he specifically talks about Barnes' issue with his timing and shoulder during pressure situations.

ignitebowling · « **Reply #10 on:** January 18, 2020, 11:20:06 AM »

Im thinking if they dont post a video they aren't really looking for answers. Notice no one ever post videos of their problems in form or said ball reaction? If only more people had access to a camera in todays times

BowlingForDonuts · « **Reply #11 on:** January 18, 2020, 11:23:22 AM »

Quote from: ignitebowling on January 18, 2020, 11:20:06 AM

Im thinking if they dont post a video they aren't really looking for answers. Notice no one ever post videos of their problems in form or said ball reaction? If only more people had access to a camera in todays times

Basically the opposite of reddit where half the posts are videos of people looking for help and other half are pictures of new Phaze 3s. I keed.

ignitebowling · « **Reply #12 on:** January 18, 2020, 12:16:13 PM »

Quote from: BowlingForDonuts on January 18, 2020, 11:23:22 AM

Quote from: ignitebowling on January 18, 2020, 11:20:06 AM
Im thinking if they dont post a video they aren't really looking for answers. Notice no one ever post videos of their problems in form or said ball reaction? If only more people had access to a camera in todays times

Basically the opposite of reddit where half the posts are videos of people looking for help and other half are pictures of new Phaze 3s. I keed.

lol

Steven · « **Reply #13 on:** January 20, 2020, 04:49:58 PM »

Quote from: notclay on January 16, 2020, 03:34:54 PM

Starting the downswing with your shoulder (pulling down) is a sure-fire way to miss inside. Why? Typically your shoulder will "lunge" forward and then it's difficult to not miss inside.

If you're right handed imagine your right shoulder staying behind your left one at release. For most of us this brings the ball right back under your shoulder and closer to your slide foot, instead of seeing a "bump" outside when the downswing starts and the bowler needing to manipulate too much to get the ball in the before-mentioned release spot.

Another way to say it is let gravity start the downswing. By freeing up the downswing you'll probably notice a better release with more consistent revs, too.

What I bolded above is excellent advise. My swing has been a little inconsistent lately. I've had bouts of tugging that I've been trying to correct without much success. In practice yesterday, I concentrated on keeping my right shoulder behind the left (slightly opening up the hips), and things got better. My last practice game was a 300.

So until the next thing goes wrong....

BallReviews-Removed0385 · « **Reply #14 on:** January 21, 2020, 06:47:42 PM »

Steven,

Nice job on the 300! All of us are different, but that's a visual that is easy for me with immediate results most of the time. Keep rolling strikes.

Author Topic: Early timing / late timing (Read 3994 times)

BeerLeague

Early timing / late timing

Cornerpin

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johns811

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BallReviews-Removed0385

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ignitebowling

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J_w73

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ignitebowling

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J_w73

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ignitebowling

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J_w73

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ignitebowling

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BowlingForDonuts

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ignitebowling

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Steven

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BallReviews-Removed0385

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