BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: Blueprint on December 29, 2013, 07:55:39 PM
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How would you rate the 4 ebonite bowling ball brands (Columbia, Ebonite, Hammer, and Track) 1 to 4 (1-being the best and 4-the worst) when comparing them based on best overall brand (timing of new ball releases, ball performance, current line up, etc....)? I saw a post similar to this a while back and wanted to see if any of your views or thoughts have changed now since time has passed and newer equipment has been released.
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Columbia-1, Track-2, Hammer-3, Ebonite-7, yes, a seven, I know the Ebonite loyalists and apologists will be butt hurt, but Ebonite stuff isn't good. You never see it in shops, leagues, or tournaments.
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My personal preference and what's popular in my area are pretty different. My preference would be c300, ebonite, track, then hammer. Popularity in my area though is more like: track, hammer, c300 and ebonite.
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1 hammer
2 columbia
3 ebonite
distant 4 track (don't see any really)
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Hammer
Track
Ebonite
Columbia
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Storm
Kentucky brand 1
Kentucky brand 2
Kentucky brand 3
Kentucky brand 4
Ok now that my Hollywood squares answer is out of the way...
Track
Hammer
Columbia
Ebonite
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Track 1a
Columbia 1b
Hammer 3
Ebonite 4
Yes you read it correctly.
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Track - 1
Columbia -2
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Hammer - 14
Ebonite - 15
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Track -》C300 -》Hammer -》Ebonite
Columbia wouldn't have been in my top a couple years ago but their releases in the past year have really put them back on the map.
Track's releases have just been solid with the number series balls
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Charlest is freaking hilarious. Read my mind just didn't have the nerve to do it. lol
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1. Track
2. Columbia
3. Hammer
4. Ebonite
That being said, I've been very impressed with some of the Ebonite equipment that I've tested recently, most specifically the Pivot, Legacy, and the Elevate. All are hybrids, so that might be the secret for me. Ebonite just doesn't seem to sell real well in my parts so I rated them last. As a brand, I would throw Ebonite over Hammer, though I'm still more partial to Track and Columbia.
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My preference:
1 Hammer
2 Track
3 Columbia
4 Ebonite
For popularity in my area, switch 1 and 2 around.
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In my neck of the woods...
1. Hammer
2. Columbia
3. Ebonite
4. Track
The only Track ball you'll see is the 400A and Columbia is starting to pick up with the Antics, Crazy Antics and Eruption Pro, but basically you're gonna see a lotta Storm and Hammer here.
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My preference:
1. Hammer
2. Track
3. Columbia
6. Ebonite
In popularity in my area, amongst these 4:
1. Hammer & Track
4. Columbia
6. Ebonite
I have thrown a few Columbia pieces, since my personal ball driller was on staff. They were very over/under for me, and too darn aggressive. Could this just have been the way he laid them out? Very possibly, because I have seen other people throw their equipment and the ball motion is different from mine. I like their variety of releases, but they sure release a lot of them. Have not seen the Antics or CA in play yet, but the Eruption Pro is a certified winner.
I have thrown a few Track pieces as well, and gained a good insight as to their strengths and weaknesses, and I must say they are very consistent in overall reactions; they tend to play on the lanes "as advertised"; and people with no hand or a lot of hand, love them equally. I think their quantity of releases is well-measured and timely.
I have been using Hammer for many years, now. Their pieces seem to match up to my game better than others, however, I am undecided on their latest "Blood Lines" that they released. These balls are wildly popular in my area.......but I am not yet convinced of their effectiveness. Not impressed with the Amp line but the Arson line was a big seller in my area.
I very rarely see a lot of EBO pieces. The woman on my team uses a mixture of Ebonite and Track. She just recently started using a Legacy and that piece has an impressive ball motion that I have seen before in some EBO stuff. Not bad at all.
The most impresive piece I've seen by EBO has been the Gamebreaker.
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How would you rate the 4 ebonite bowling ball brands (Columbia, Ebonite, Hammer, and Track) 1 to 4 (1-being the best and 4-the worst) when comparing them based on best overall brand (timing of new ball releases, ball performance, current line up, etc....)? I saw a post similar to this a while back and wanted to see if any of your views or thoughts have changed now since time has passed and newer equipment has been released.
I'm spoiled, being in Las Vegas. I get to see a bit of everything and everywhere. And despite what some say here, I see Ebonite gear in at least 5 - 6 pro shops in this town.
Now, with that said, where I also am at in Sacrament, I'm probably the only person still throwing any Ebonite gear, and I'm in the middle of phasing some of that out for Hammer.
Now, with that said, I'd say this:
1. Hammer
2a. Track
2b. Columbia
4. Ebonite
I say this because of the different performance lines each brand has, timing of releases, and (unfortunately), availability. In Vegas, you have everything everywhere, and you have not only staffers but regional reps from various brands living in town, so it makes the availability of the ball easy, as well as being able to see the performance of the ball. That makes it an even push all around.
Now, when I get out of town, that is another story. Up here in Sacramento, there is only 1 EBI staffer here; I'd have to make the drive to Reno to find a rep (Pam Buckner). There is a bit more exposure to EBI and Ebonite there, but not much.
I haven't found a single person throwing the Pivot in Sacramento; that's what makes me tempted to get one, as it may/should compliment my Cold Blood.
Variety: Ebonite is in trouble here, and they've been in trouble since the end of the Mission series (in particular, the Mission X). From there, it's been downhill. It took a while to catch up in the mid performance range after the Signals, where Hammer and Track have just been belting them out. They are finally starting to do so with the Cyclone series and Legacy, but too little/too late?
Availability: Again, easy in Vegas; 5 pro shops carry EBI gear. Sacramento? Has to be ordered in after purchase, so you couldn't walk out of the shop with a ball. I've noticed that with other equipment as well, so that may just be a regional thing. When I lived in Omaha and in Vegas, I could walk out of the shop, ball in hand, after waiting 30 minutes for it to be drilled. That's why whenever I'm back in Vegas, if I need one, I'll run to that shop, get one punched up, and fly it home with me.
Releases: I think everyone is starting to catch on to the idea of mid-season releases. It used to be that you'd only catch them in the summer in preparation for the new year, and that ball would tie you over; not necessarily so now; case in point would be after Norton won with the First Blood last year.
Overall, if they aren't already in the lab with a pen and pad, Ebonite needs to get to work on R&D fast, otherwise they are going to fall behind of not only their competitors, but the other 3 brands under their umbrella.
BL.
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1. Hammer
2. Columbia
3. Track
23. Ebonite
Hammer is pretty popular here, though its rapidly losing ground, their covers don't hold up very well around here at all. Columbia is making up ground, Track is semi popular, and literally the only Ebonite ball we've sold in the last TWO YEARS has been the Cyclone. If we put any other Ebonite ball on the wall, we're guaranteed to lose money on it.
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1. Hammer
2. Columbia
3. Track
23. Ebonite
Hammer is pretty popular here, though its rapidly losing ground, their covers don't hold up very well around here at all. Columbia is making up ground, Track is semi popular, and literally the only Ebonite ball we've sold in the last TWO YEARS has been the Cyclone. If we put any other Ebonite ball on the wall, we're guaranteed to lose money on it.
This is what I've noticed in Sacramento as well. The last ball that sold well on the shelves here was the Mission Domination/250K, followed by the Mission, Complete NV, and Total NV. Not much Gamebreaker or Playmaker sales here.
But it takes a lot to happen for 20+ year loyal customers, let alone reps, to switch, let alone think about switching. I'm one (throwing Ebonite since 1993), and Hulsenberg and MacPherson switched altogether.
BL.
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For me:
Columbia
Hammer
Track
Ebonite
I think it speaks volumes for Ebonite that you don't see Tommy Jones making many shows anymore. I think they went in the right direction with the Legacy. However...when have you seen the Challenge, Champion, Source, Pursuits, Endure, Elevate, and others make it onto a PBA telecast?
I really like the direction Columbia is going in. Over the last 5 years, they have really been putting out some really good stuff. The Swing series balls were excellent pieces. The Eruption series is another huge home run for them. The Freeze line has been doing extremely well. And now...the Down series with the Smack Down and soon to be released Take Down. I believe that they are back in the game now and best it has been since the Rock line back 10-12 years ago.
Track has always been solid. From the Heat/Triton series balls all the way through to the numbered balls, Track has always been a good consistent company putting out good equipment.
Hammer has come a long way just in the past 5 years. Not saying that they were terrible before then. Just seems as though their popularity had gradually increased over the past 5 years with the success of Bill ONeill. Starting with the Vibes and Widow series balls, then the Taboos and now the Blood series.
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Durability issues, specifically with the sanded pearls like the Taboo Blue/Silver, the Deep Purple, and most recently the Cold Blood. They "die" after 50 games or so, and even a full resurface duplicating the factory finish with brand new abralon pads won't get them back for more than a game or two. It's across the board as well, doesn't matter if you clean them or don't, adjust the surface or not, etc. The solids last the longest, but balls like the Absolut Curve and First Blood last a bit longer, but just get extremely lazy at the breakpoint and nothing we do gets them anywhere close to box reaction. I used to throw Hammer exclusively, but even working at a shop I can't afford to go through balls that quickly. And it's not just a majority, it's every single Hammer ball. I think my wife's Arson Hybrid is the only Hammer ball in town I've seen that's lasted for any length of time, and she only bowls once a week and doesn't put much on the ball anyway. As a result, we just don't sell much Hammer anymore.
1. Hammer
2. Columbia
3. Track
23. Ebonite
Hammer is pretty popular here, though its rapidly losing ground, their covers don't hold up very well around here at all. Columbia is making up ground, Track is semi popular, and literally the only Ebonite ball we've sold in the last TWO YEARS has been the Cyclone. If we put any other Ebonite ball on the wall, we're guaranteed to lose money on it.
What issues have there been with Hammers covers and what is c300 doing that's helping them close the gap?
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Ebonite is seemingly last in a lot of peoples post. It has been that where here for a long while. One of their staff members who is a great bowler typically only really likes one release they have here or there. You know what it is because it will be the ball he has 2-3 of in the bag and nothing else.
Ebonite to me seems behind on everything they do. Videos, product, and appeal. Hammer had the torch for a very solid run. The rebranding going on seems to have slowed Hammer down locally. Track has been very solid since the number releases and the color changes. Columbia is starting to pick it up nicely in performance and appearance. Just solid equipment.
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Ebonite is seemingly last in a lot of peoples post. It has been that where here for a long while. One of their staff members who is a great bowler typically only really likes one release they have here or there. You know what it is because it will be the ball he has 2-3 of in the bag and nothing else.
I also saw this some 12 - 14 years ago as well. Ebonite was starting to string together some good releases back in the Apex days, but the rep then stuck with his Matrix Dynasty the entire time. That was his go-to ball, which was all he needed. He skipped the Apex Addiction, Apex Obsession, Apex Adrenaline, Apex Intensity, and the Apex Particle.
It wasn't until the Optyx that he switched balls, and then went back to the Matrix Dynasty.
Ebonite to me seems behind on everything they do. Videos, product, and appeal.
Ebonite, yes. EBI, no. with the 4 brands, EBI is trying to give off different vibes (no pun intended) about how each 'brand' is. The only one they have fallen behind on is Ebonite:
Hammer = all in, balls out, "LET'S DO THIS" in a Joe Swanson from Family Guy manner.
Track = Technical.
Columbia = true legacy and more.. family oriented with solid gear.
Ebonite = ????
Hammer had the torch for a very solid run. The rebranding going on seems to have slowed Hammer down locally. Track has been very solid since the number releases and the color changes. Columbia is starting to pick it up nicely in performance and appearance. Just solid equipment.
I don't know what Ebonite's answer is. But they need one. And this is coming from someone who has thrown them exclusively since 1993.
BL.
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After the One Series of balls is when it started to fall off locally where I am at. the mission kinda did ok but not like else where.
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Columbia-1, Track-2, Hammer-3, Ebonite-7, yes, a seven, I know the Ebonite loyalists and apologists will be butt hurt, but Ebonite stuff isn't good. You never see it in shops, leagues, or tournaments.
i have to disagree with the ebonite comment above
the pivot is very underrated, could be color scheme is hurting sales?
but the ball is awesome.
strong ball for sure, not for me personally, but for the hook monster crowd, it should be a hit. (I believe its a similar piece to the virtual gravity)
and now the pivot point in a pearlized version.
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Just in my town Ebonite has never been a huge seller. Stingers were popular when they were out and some of the animal series balls back in the late 80's, but other than a Cyclone I'm not sure I've seen much of anything else.
Of the 4 Columbia has always been the dominate seller, and only really slid when Storm started selling really well ( when I was bowling in the early 2000's I was the only person in my leagues throwing Storm). Brunswick was the other dominate seller but obviously not an EBI brand.
Just in my area I would say it looks more like this
1. Columbia
2. Hammer
3. Ebonite
4. Track
I definitely don't think Track has bad equipment, I've just never seen anyone throw it at all around here ( same goes for alot of other brands). There may be some throwing it in tournaments now, but I haven't had the ability to go to one in a while due to the work schedule.
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Everything Ebonite puts out is very dark, bland and unappealing color wise. When you have Ebonite stuff on the wall next to Motiv, DV8, and Storm, nobody will pick the Ebonite ball. Plus when you have a decade old video strategy, "Hey, look at our brand new ball that makes our old balls look like complete trash because we're purposely playing the lanes wrong with them to make the new ball look better!" that insults people's intelligence in today's game.
I'm required to be objective, I'm required to sell someone the best ball for them, so I consider everything when selling a ball. But me personally, if I had to either start throwing Ebonite or quit bowling, I'd quit bowling. Ebonite used to have the corner on the female pros, almost every single one of them threw Ebonite. Not anymore.
Columbia-1, Track-2, Hammer-3, Ebonite-7, yes, a seven, I know the Ebonite loyalists and apologists will be butt hurt, but Ebonite stuff isn't good. You never see it in shops, leagues, or tournaments.
i have to disagree with the ebonite comment above
the pivot is very underrated, could be color scheme is hurting sales?
but the ball is awesome.
strong ball for sure, not for me personally, but for the hook monster crowd, it should be a hit. (I believe its a similar piece to the virtual gravity)
and now the pivot point in a pearlized version.
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you would quit bowling rather than throw ebonite?
thats a bit of a silly statement, you must not like the game all that much
isnt this game all about scoring? who cares what color the ball is.
I can tell you that EBI brands sell 50% of the bowling balls in the world, compared to 25% storm and 25% Brunswick (roughly)
Just because you might not like the looks of the Ebonite line doesnt mean they arent any good, there has been some sleeper pieces out there that went un noticed
challenge was one, source was another, Pivot is an excellent piece.
If i was given the choice to either quit or use "X" brand, i wouldnt care what it is, i just love the game.
I was primarily a track person only until a few years ago, have a sampling of the other 3 brands currently, Just my opinion though
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Yes, it would be silly, which means my reason would have to be about more than the color, wouldn't it? I work in a pro shop, I spend a lot of time here, I make videos, I'm on our city's board, I write articles for a different bowling site, and I'm the city's lane certification director . . obviously I wouldn't quit bowling over the color of a bowling ball. Just because that's something I mentioned doesn't mean it's my only reason. It's only relevant because I work in a pro shop, shelf appeal is very important to the consumer, and it's a pretty large factor for the average league bowler when it comes to picking a ball. Seeing as how consumer ball selection is kind of the point of this thread, I pointed it out as one of the larger factors.
The reasons why I would rather quit than throw Ebonite are directly related to all of that. Ebonite doesn't sell in town, and it makes no sense for me to throw a company that we wouldn't stock. Brunswick brands and Motiv typically react the best here in town, while Ebonite never really has, with perhaps the exception of the Mission, and V2s. Basically, it wouldn't do anything for advertisement, and wouldn't improve my scores, which would make people wonder why I'd make a decision like that, which in turn may make them less confident in the decisions I'd be making for them and their equipment. If I'm throwing balls from a company we don't stock, that don't react as well here as other companies, why should they trust my advice to them? Yes, quitting is a strong statement, but logically, given a choice between that, and throwing Ebonite, quitting would damage my reputation less. It's not meant to be dramatic or inflammatory, it's simply a statement that accurately describes my situation. Ebonite's equipment and marketing simply isn't on par with other companies, it feels years behind.
you would quit bowling rather than throw ebonite?
thats a bit of a silly statement, you must not like the game all that much
isnt this game all about scoring? who cares what color the ball is.
I can tell you that EBI brands sell 50% of the bowling balls in the world, compared to 25% storm and 25% Brunswick (roughly)
Just because you might not like the looks of the Ebonite line doesnt mean they arent any good, there has been some sleeper pieces out there that went un noticed
challenge was one, source was another, Pivot is an excellent piece.
If i was given the choice to either quit or use "X" brand, i wouldnt care what it is, i just love the game.
I was primarily a track person only until a few years ago, have a sampling of the other 3 brands currently, Just my opinion though
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Gizmo,
Don't back pedal, your statement was a bit "tongue in cheek", but the premise is clear as day. I made the same statement a few months back in a similar EBI thread and I said given the choice quit or throw Ebonite, I'd quit. Its more of an indictment on how poor their equipment is.
Ebonite apologists will staunchly defend Ebonite, but the fact that the Cyclone is their best selling ball says enough.
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In my pro shop I would rank them as follows:
1- Storm
2- Motiv
3- Hammer
4- Roto Grip
5- Columbia
6- DV8
7- Track
8- Ebonite
Personally, I prefer Track of the 4 EBI brands as it matches up best with my style. And the Track 500 series is the best in the Track line-up. I used to throw strictly Ebonite until the One series ended. Thought the Angular One was one of Ebonites best balls made. As for Hammer, I also see ball death fairly early in the balls sold. Columbia has been up and coming recently in my mind and Ebonite needs major work. Think their shelf appeal is a huge downfall. I have a Game on, Warning sign and Pivit on my display that people won't even pick up and look at.
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you would quit bowling rather than throw ebonite?
thats a bit of a silly statement, you must not like the game all that much
isnt this game all about scoring? who cares what color the ball is.
I can tell you that EBI brands sell 50% of the bowling balls in the world, compared to 25% storm and 25% Brunswick (roughly)
Just because you might not like the looks of the Ebonite line doesnt mean they arent any good, there has been some sleeper pieces out there that went un noticed
challenge was one, source was another, Pivot is an excellent piece.
If i was given the choice to either quit or use "X" brand, i wouldnt care what it is, i just love the game.
I was primarily a track person only until a few years ago, have a sampling of the other 3 brands currently, Just my opinion though
Cut it out, EBI sells twice as much because they have 4 brands under their umbrella while Storm and Brunswick don't have that luxury. I see what you did here, cute.
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the cyclone is alot of ball for the price, so im not surprised it sells well
im not a ebonite loyalist by any means, but ebonite does sell well in other areas besides yours obviously.
I bet if you tried a pivot and gave it an honest opinion on the condition it is designed for you wouldnt be so dead set against the brand, their equipment is not poor.
poorly marketed, poor colors, possibly, but performance wise, not even close to poor
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How would you rate the 4 ebonite bowling ball brands (Columbia, Ebonite, Hammer, and Track) 1 to 4 (1-being the best and 4-the worst) when comparing them based on best overall brand (timing of new ball releases, ball performance, current line up, etc....)? I saw a post similar to this a while back and wanted to see if any of your views or thoughts have changed now since time has passed and newer equipment has been released.
I'm in Central Va. The 3 proshops that are within a reasonable distance all push Hammer. So we see a lot of Hammer around here. In particular, two of the better bowlers in the area shot a lot of big scores with the Epidemic when it was first released, and then it looked like 1/4 of all the bowlers in our area had them, and a lot of honor scores were shot with them. Since then, there have been a lot of Hammer duds, with perhaps the First Blood having some limited success. Both the Purple and Jet Black Taboo's seemed to be really condition specific. The Jet Black's always seemed to be very smooth, but were not hyped up that way. I may have seen one or two Arson's, but they weren't popular around here.
Me on the other hand have thrown all of the 4 EbI brands. My personal preference has been 1. Track, 2. Ebonite, 3. Columbia and 4. Hammer. I have had good luck with a lot of Track and Ebonite equipment, and even when Ebonite was a "dirty word" back in the mid 90's, I had good luck with a lot of their stuff. Perhaps Ebonite has done better with their mid priced and lower lines as the Gamebreaker and Cyclone were in my opinion, very good balls for the money.
As a PBA member, Hammer rarely offers their equipment either at a discount or at all, while Track offers discounted prices. So personally I am a lot more likely to throw Track because of that very reason. The 300 and 400 series balls have been very popular with the rev heavy people in our area, as they give a controlled movement on drier lanes.
There are VERY FEW Columbia 300 balls being thrown in our area. And honestly, every one I have seen has given the bowlers using them terrible ball reaction. It probably is just some isolated cases, but if I was purely to judge on when people around me are throwing, I wouldn't buy a Columbia 300 ball. I saw someone throw the Crazy Antics last night, and in my opinion, it is one of the top 5 ugliest balls I have ever seen, and in almost 20 years of bowling I have seen my share of ugly bowling balls. It looks like a big Creamsicle. So perhaps if you like Creamsicle sticks ....
I have tried 3 different Hammer pieces, and didn't have much success with any of them ... with the Black Widow Pearl being the best of the 3 (and that was obviously a while back) Maybe I am missing out on some of their better stuff, but I would pick them far behind the other three (and would certainly be the exception in my region)
So for me 1-Track, 2-Ebonite, 3-Columbia, 4-Hammer
But I would say based on popularity in my area it is:
1-Hammer, 2-Track, 3-Ebonite, 4-Columbia
I won't throw in any gratuitous remarks about other manufacturers, as the OP didn't ask about any other brands.
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dr3w - interesting comments on not having good reaction with the Hammer line.
I switched away from Track because of the very same reason.
loved the 505t & 715t equipment, both earlier rolling very predictable.
A few tweaks in my grip layout & pressure changed my game a bit.
My local pro shop operator who is a gold coach and experienced driller suggested a few pieces to fit my new game.
have a few of each, columbia, hammer, ebonite and tried to keep the 2-505t, but they just dont match up the way they did for me previously.
Also interesting is the discount available to you for 1 of the EBI brands, but not the others...
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dr3w - interesting comments on not having good reaction with the Hammer line.
I switched away from Track because of the very same reason.
loved the 505t & 715t equipment, both earlier rolling very predictable.
A few tweaks in my grip layout & pressure changed my game a bit.
My local pro shop operator who is a gold coach and experienced driller suggested a few pieces to fit my new game.
have a few of each, columbia, hammer, ebonite and tried to keep the 2-505t, but they just dont match up the way they did for me previously.
Also interesting is the discount available to you for 1 of the EBI brands, but not the others...
I think tha the EBI companies can offer discounts if they want. Almost evert Track ball is discounted. Most Columbia balls are offered. Ebonite used to offer a lot of stuff, but have slowed down recently. Hammer hasn't offered anything in a while.
I've heard the argument that Hammer wants to cater to the brick and mortar shops. There have been rumors of PBA guys buying the discounted equipment and selling it off. With a maximum of 2 Balls per member, it seems like a weak argument. Even when Hammer did offer discounts they were for $5 to $10 cheaper than you can get online, and they wouldn't guarantee specs (pin out distance). So for $5 more, I would rather get the specs I prefer from an online store, so I can more easily get the layout I want.
Sorry if I have diverged from the Original Topic.
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My area:
I think I sold 15 total balls from the whole EBI brand(s) for the year. Ebonite, like others have stated, hasn't had a great line since the Mission. Alot of Track people got turned off by the numbering system. I've sold a few Hammer balls and they are ok at best and the AMP seemed to die very quickly for one of my customers. I bowl with a guy on Columbia staff, and they are making a decent product.
It really has to do with what the higher level players/pro shop operators are using or talking up at the local centers. I was a Storm guy for a long time so 90% of all the balls I sold were in the Storm/Roto brands. I've recently switched over to the Brunswick family and i'm expecting to sell a ton of their product. Between their 3 brands they are making great stuff right now. I will order any ball from any brand for a customer, and i have to tell you not a whole lot of people are asking about the EBI brands in my shop.
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I do like the way the Pivot reacts . . but Ebonite has a long way to go to overcome the hole they've dug themselves into.
And northface, I actually wasn't backpedaling, lol those reasons are all exactly why I would rather quit than throw Ebonite, I just didn't get into detail to begin with.
the cyclone is alot of ball for the price, so im not surprised it sells well
im not a ebonite loyalist by any means, but ebonite does sell well in other areas besides yours obviously.
I bet if you tried a pivot and gave it an honest opinion on the condition it is designed for you wouldnt be so dead set against the brand, their equipment is not poor.
poorly marketed, poor colors, possibly, but performance wise, not even close to poor
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In my Central Illinois town it's
1. Storm
2. DV8
3. Roto
4. Brunswick
5. Motiv
6. Track
7. Columbia
8. Hammer
9. Radical
10. Ebonite
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My perception from the bowling scene in Central Arizona:
1. Columbia
2. Hammer
3. Ebonite
4. Track
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Hammer has more of a rewards program. They have hammer stickers on all the ball boxes, and my boss takes care of it so I don't know what kind of a deal they get, but there are different color stickers depending on the level or price of the ball, and if you get so many and send them in, Hammer will send you free balls, or give you discounts or something. There's a discount, they just do it on the back side instead of up front.
dr3w - interesting comments on not having good reaction with the Hammer line.
I switched away from Track because of the very same reason.
loved the 505t & 715t equipment, both earlier rolling very predictable.
A few tweaks in my grip layout & pressure changed my game a bit.
My local pro shop operator who is a gold coach and experienced driller suggested a few pieces to fit my new game.
have a few of each, columbia, hammer, ebonite and tried to keep the 2-505t, but they just dont match up the way they did for me previously.
Also interesting is the discount available to you for 1 of the EBI brands, but not the others...
I think tha the EBI companies can offer discounts if they want. Almost evert Track ball is discounted. Most Columbia balls are offered. Ebonite used to offer a lot of stuff, but have slowed down recently. Hammer hasn't offered anything in a while.
I've heard the argument that Hammer wants to cater to the brick and mortar shops. There have been rumors of PBA guys buying the discounted equipment and selling it off. With a maximum of 2 Balls per member, it seems like a weak argument. Even when Hammer did offer discounts they were for $5 to $10 cheaper than you can get online, and they wouldn't guarantee specs (pin out distance). So for $5 more, I would rather get the specs I prefer from an online store, so I can more easily get the layout I want.
Sorry if I have diverged from the Original Topic.
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Okay, I was only referring to the PBA discounts they offer to PBA members. I'm sure each brand has its own reward program for brick and mortar proshops. I remember years ago seeing hammer boxes with stickers that stated "buy X Balls, get One free". Not sure if Buddies or other online shops get discounts. But obviously Buddies shows video reviews, so perhaps they get free equipment or other perks for that.
Hammer has more of a rewards program. They have hammer stickers on all the ball boxes, and my boss takes care of it so I don't know what kind of a deal they get, but there are different color stickers depending on the level or price of the ball, and if you get so many and send them in, Hammer will send you free balls, or give you discounts or something. There's a discount, they just do it on the back side instead of up front.
dr3w - interesting comments on not having good reaction with the Hammer line.
I switched away from Track because of the very same reason.
loved the 505t & 715t equipment, both earlier rolling very predictable.
A few tweaks in my grip layout & pressure changed my game a bit.
My local pro shop operator who is a gold coach and experienced driller suggested a few pieces to fit my new game.
have a few of each, columbia, hammer, ebonite and tried to keep the 2-505t, but they just dont match up the way they did for me previously.
Also interesting is the discount available to you for 1 of the EBI brands, but not the others...
I think tha the EBI companies can offer discounts if they want. Almost evert Track ball is discounted. Most Columbia balls are offered. Ebonite used to offer a lot of stuff, but have slowed down recently. Hammer hasn't offered anything in a while.
I've heard the argument that Hammer wants to cater to the brick and mortar shops. There have been rumors of PBA guys buying the discounted equipment and selling it off. With a maximum of 2 Balls per member, it seems like a weak argument. Even when Hammer did offer discounts they were for $5 to $10 cheaper than you can get online, and they wouldn't guarantee specs (pin out distance). So for $5 more, I would rather get the specs I prefer from an online store, so I can more easily get the layout I want.
Sorry if I have diverged from the Original Topic.
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Oh ok. I have no clue about any of that.
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If I am not mistaken, Hammer Sticker Program is going away and the Absolute Hook is last ball to have stickers. Not sure when they have to be redeemed by, by sucks because it was a plus for me to sell Hammer balls. Think I ended up with 6-8 balls from program.
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I hadn't heard about that, that's disappointing. I wonder if it's because it was costing them too much, or because most shop owners didn't take the time to redeem them. Won't change anything for us though, my owner bowled at KU with Hammer's brand manager, so we'll continue to support them regardless of the sticker program.
If I am not mistaken, Hammer Sticker Program is going away and the Absolute Hook is last ball to have stickers. Not sure when they have to be redeemed by, by sucks because it was a plus for me to sell Hammer balls. Think I ended up with 6-8 balls from program.
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I do like the way the Pivot reacts . . but Ebonite has a long way to go to overcome the hole they've dug themselves into.
I agree. and it's a sad state, especially seeing how proud of a brand they are, and have been successful over the past 20something years. I just don't know happened. I know the industry has its ebbs and flows, but they definitely did get caught unaware, especially with the fracturing that happened and other companies cropping up (Visionary, Motiv, Radical, Seismic, DV8, etc.). It's like their thinking is still back in the mid-late 90s when there were only six major brands around.
And right now, the Pivot is the only reason I'm still looking at Ebonite gear. I'd love to demo it, but the closest demo days is in Minnesota, and there is only 1 EBI staffer in the area without having to make a 3 hour drive in any direction, and he's with Track. So the chance of there being a demo day in the Norcal area is slim to none.
I hadn't heard about that, that's disappointing. I wonder if it's because it was costing them too much, or because most shop owners didn't take the time to redeem them. Won't change anything for us though, my owner bowled at KU with Hammer's brand manager, so we'll continue to support them regardless of the sticker program.
If I am not mistaken, Hammer Sticker Program is going away and the Absolute Hook is last ball to have stickers. Not sure when they have to be redeemed by, by sucks because it was a plus for me to sell Hammer balls. Think I ended up with 6-8 balls from program.
Interesting. didn't know about either the program or Ussery bowling at Kansas. Wish I had known earlier about the program. :(
BL.
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Ussery also founded the pro shop I currently work in, he was here for 2 years before Hammer offered him the job, and he used to drill my equipment, great super knowledgeable guy.
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I do like the way the Pivot reacts . . but Ebonite has a long way to go to overcome the hole they've dug themselves into.
I agree. and it's a sad state, especially seeing how proud of a brand they are, and have been successful over the past 20something years. I just don't know happened. I know the industry has its ebbs and flows, but they definitely did get caught unaware, especially with the fracturing that happened and other companies cropping up (Visionary, Motiv, Radical, Seismic, DV8, etc.). It's like their thinking is still back in the mid-late 90s when there were only six major brands around.
And right now, the Pivot is the only reason I'm still looking at Ebonite gear. I'd love to demo it, but the closest demo days is in Minnesota, and there is only 1 EBI staffer in the area without having to make a 3 hour drive in any direction, and he's with Track. So the chance of there being a demo day in the Norcal area is slim to none.
I hadn't heard about that, that's disappointing. I wonder if it's because it was costing them too much, or because most shop owners didn't take the time to redeem them. Won't change anything for us though, my owner bowled at KU with Hammer's brand manager, so we'll continue to support them regardless of the sticker program.
If I am not mistaken, Hammer Sticker Program is going away and the Absolute Hook is last ball to have stickers. Not sure when they have to be redeemed by, by sucks because it was a plus for me to sell Hammer balls. Think I ended up with 6-8 balls from program.
Interesting. didn't know about either the program or Ussery bowling at Kansas. Wish I had known earlier about the program. :(
BL.
WOW!!! All hammer balls had a hammer sticker on the box the last two years. Collect 3 of each of the 4 colors and get a free ball of choice. Sounds like your distributor was taking the stickers. If I got a ball from my distributor, I called and made them mail me one.
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I hadn't heard about that, that's disappointing. I wonder if it's because it was costing them too much, or because most shop owners didn't take the time to redeem them. Won't change anything for us though, my owner bowled at KU with Hammer's brand manager, so we'll continue to support them regardless of the sticker program.
If I am not mistaken, Hammer Sticker Program is going away and the Absolute Hook is last ball to have stickers. Not sure when they have to be redeemed by, by sucks because it was a plus for me to sell Hammer balls. Think I ended up with 6-8 balls from program.
Just drilled an Amp Up for a customer a week or so ago, no sticker. I was pretty bummed too.