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Author Topic: Rules question...  (Read 3941 times)

mumzie

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Rules question...
« on: March 15, 2008, 02:13:31 PM »
Had a rule question come up the other night. We were fairly divided in opinion - so I'll leave it to the experts

The ball hits the pins. Sweep comes down. The sweep is standing still, a pin bounces off of it and clears the pins left standing. Is it a strike, or do you reset the spare???

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vilecanards

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Re: Rules question...
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2008, 10:15:19 PM »
strike...
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r.k.wolfe

Maine Man

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Re: Rules question...
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2008, 10:17:02 PM »
It is a strike as long as the machine has not yet come down and touched the pins that are standing.  Once that happens, the pins that are left have to be set back up and the score corrected accordingly.  But, as long as the machine has not yet come down and touched the pins, the pin(s) bouncing around CAN knock the other standing pins down (even off the sweep), and the score will count as a strike.
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Rev_O

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Re: Rules question...
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2008, 10:30:26 PM »
X
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Edited on 3/15/2008 10:30 PM

DanH78

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Re: Rules question...
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2008, 10:40:11 PM »
Sorry, dead ball, doesn't count as a strike

On the second delivery, the sweep bar comes down and deflects the ball before it can make contact with the remaining pins. When this happens, what should we do?

According to Rule 8, Item g, a dead ball is declared when a player’s ball comes in contact with any foreign obstacle. The sweep bar is considered a foreign obstacle, and the player is required to have the pin(s) remaining respotted and rebowl the second ball.


8. Dead Ball
 

When a dead ball is called, the delivery does not count and the correct pins must be respotted. The player is allowed to rebowl that delivery.

 

A ball shall be declared dead if any of the following occur:

a.   After a delivery, attention is immediately called to the fact that one or more pins were missing from the setup.

b.   A human pinsetter interferes with any standing pin before the ball reaches the pins.

c.   A human pinsetter removes or interferes with any downed pin before it stops rolling.

d.   A player bowls on the wrong lane or out of turn, or one player from each team on the pair of lanes bowls on the wrong lane.

e.   A player has physical contact with another person or moving object as the ball is being delivered and before delivery is completed. In such case, the player has the option to accept the resulting pinfall or have a dead ball called.

f.   Any pin is moved or knocked down as a player delivers the ball but before the ball reaches the pins.

g.   A delivered ball comes in contact with a foreign obstacle.

What do I win?

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Edited on 3/15/2008 10:40 PM
#10

Maine Man

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Re: Rules question...
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2008, 10:46:22 PM »
quote:
Sorry, dead ball, doesn't count as a strike

On the second delivery, the sweep bar comes down and deflects the ball before it can make contact with the remaining pins. When this happens, what should we do?

According to Rule 8, Item g, a dead ball is declared when a player’s ball comes in contact with any foreign obstacle. The sweep bar is considered a foreign obstacle, and the player is required to have the pin(s) remaining respotted and rebowl the second ball.


8. Dead Ball
 

When a dead ball is called, the delivery does not count and the correct pins must be respotted. The player is allowed to rebowl that delivery.

 

A ball shall be declared dead if any of the following occur:

a.   After a delivery, attention is immediately called to the fact that one or more pins were missing from the setup.

b.   A human pinsetter interferes with any standing pin before the ball reaches the pins.

c.   A human pinsetter removes or interferes with any downed pin before it stops rolling.

d.   A player bowls on the wrong lane or out of turn, or one player from each team on the pair of lanes bowls on the wrong lane.

e.   A player has physical contact with another person or moving object as the ball is being delivered and before delivery is completed. In such case, the player has the option to accept the resulting pinfall or have a dead ball called.

f.   Any pin is moved or knocked down as a player delivers the ball but before the ball reaches the pins.

g.   A delivered ball comes in contact with a foreign obstacle.

What do I win?

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It IS next year!

Edited on 3/15/2008 10:40 PM


Dan, you don't win anything, lol.  Seriously, the poster asked about a PIN coming in contact with the sweep, not the BALL.  The ball I assume, is on it's way back in the return.  Pins are still in play, even if they come in contact with the sweep, as long as the standing pins have not been contacted by the pinsetter first.  Once the pinsetter touches the pins standing, the shot is dead, and the score counted.  If the pins standing get knocked down by a flying pin off the seep before the pinsetter comes down, then the score is a strike.  The dead ball situation does not come into play in this scenario.
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DanH78

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Re: Rules question...
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2008, 10:48:47 PM »
quote:

Dan, you don't win anything, lol.  Seriously, the poster asked about a PIN coming in contact with the sweep, not the BALL.  The ball I assume, is on it's way back in the return.  Pins are still in play, even if they come in contact with the sweep, as long as the standing pins have not been contacted by the pinsetter first.  Once the pinsetter touches the pins standing, the shot is dead, and the score counted.  If the pins standing get knocked down by a flying pin off the seep before the pinsetter comes down, then the score is a strike.  The dead ball situation does not come into play in this scenario.
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MainePBA
"Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely." Lord Acton


dagnabit...I just got back from Albuquerque, got at most 4 hours of sleep/nite all week...I plead sleep deprivation causing my inability to read correctly.  <kicks the ball return of life and walks away swearing>
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#10

DanH78

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Re: Rules question...
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2008, 10:50:26 PM »
Now that Maine has pointed out the errors of my reading comprehension, a pin bouncing off the sweep is no different than bouncing off the sidewall or out of the pit.  Until the pinsetter comes down, everything is live
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#10

ThongPrincess

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Re: Rules question...
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2008, 10:50:55 PM »
According to Rule 6a it is a Strike
quote:
6a. Legal Pinfall
Pins to be credited to a player following a legal delivery shall include:

1.   Pins knocked down or off the lane surface by the ball or another pin.

2.   Pins knocked down or off the lane surface by a pin rebounding from a side partition or rear cushion.

3.   Pins knocked down or off the lane surface by a pin rebounding from the sweep bar when it is at rest on the pin deck before sweeping dead wood from the pin deck.

4.   Pins that lean and touch the kickback or side partition. All such pins are termed dead wood and must be removed before the next delivery.

No pins may be conceded, and only pins actually knocked down or moved entirely off the playing area of the lane surface as a result of a legal delivery may be counted.


According Mumzie, the sweep was at rest and it was a pin not the ball that rebounded off the sweep, therefore the pinfall is legal and the strike should be scored.  Had the sweep been in motion, the the pins would need to be reset.
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Edited on 3/15/2008 10:52 PM
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Maine Man

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Re: Rules question...
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2008, 10:56:27 PM »
quote:
Now that Maine has pointed out the errors of my reading comprehension, a pin bouncing off the sweep is no different than bouncing off the sidewall or out of the pit.  Until the pinsetter comes down, everything is live
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Dan, it's all good!!  I didn't mean to sound snotty, and the sleep deprivation excuse has been used by myself on many an occasion.  Take care man, and get some sleep!!
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DanH78

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Re: Rules question...
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2008, 11:41:44 PM »
quote:


Dan, it's all good!!  I didn't mean to sound snotty, and the sleep deprivation excuse has been used by myself on many an occasion.  Take care man, and get some sleep!!
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You didn't.  No Harm, no foul
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#10

jd1319

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Re: Rules question...
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2008, 08:49:46 AM »
o.k, what if a ball bounces up out of the gutter on the lane next to yours, hits the pinsetter, causing it to break and fall onto the lane knocking down all the pins while spewing smoke?  Your delivered ball never came into contact with a foreign object.

JohnP

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Re: Rules question...
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2008, 09:24:31 PM »
When the pinsetter hits a pin, it has to be set back up.  No matter what caused the contact to happen.  --  JohnP

Edited on 3/16/2008 9:24 PM