Author Topic: Friend says I am a bad teammate (Read 11785 times)

Neptune66 · « **on:** May 02, 2019, 02:14:05 PM »

I have a tendency to want to put a ball away after I've had a really good game with it, and my friend (and teammate) says that's selfish if I do it in league.

I can see his point if the team is still in contention for the playoffs and if the game was a 230 or better or with a really strong finish. To put the scores in perspective, I'm only averaging 172 in this league, but 180+ in my other two leagues, and even with those averages, used to get my fair share of 220 or better games. But not so much this year.

And my team was out of contention weeks ago and we're only bowling for points, but still... I bowled a 215 the first game and then decided to switch to a different ball. I had my reasons and again... the 215 was a solid, reasonable game for me ... and clean too. But it wasn't like I was on fire at any point. And I really thought the ball I switched to would work better or at least as good.

It was a colossal mistake with a bad result, and my friend remembers that earlier in the month I had bowled a 255 in the 2nd game and then put that ball away for the 3rd, with similar results. And even that time, I felt that even though I was throwing a phenomenal shot, I was really laboring to get the ball far enough down the lane to maintain the shot, and decided to switch balls before I started missing my mark if I didn't keep the speed up. He accused me of wanting to put the first ball away so I could put it (figuratively speaking) in a trophy case. He was not 100% wrong, but he was not 100% right either.

Unfortunately that perception is there now. I'm not clairvoyant, so am I not allowed to guess which ball I THINK will be best in the next game....even if it's not the one I just bowled great with?

Granted... if we were in the playoffs or in contention, I would be much more conservative and not want to change ANYTHING. Even what I had for dinner or what street I drove on, etc... and, of course, the ball. But we are NOT in contention, and 215 was decent ---especially for me in that particular house---- but it was not phenominal and off the charts, so I don't agree with my friend's view.

Am I a jerk?

rackattack · « **Reply #16 on:** May 03, 2019, 08:02:29 AM »

The ball is reacting well
Your game was clean, meaning when you were inconsistent the result was made spares
You were 40 pins over average
As a 170 -180 bowler this is utopia
Im willing to bet you changed balls and continued to play the same area on the lane
A bowler is usually in the 180 average range due to inconsistency
By changing balls for no solid reason your contributing to that tendency
I suggest you use your final shot (3rd ball) in the 10th to "test" the other ball
If your wrong you only cost your team a couple of pins
If your right you will benefit both yourself and your team
This is smart play assuring you are an asset to your team

spmcgivern · « **Reply #17 on:** May 03, 2019, 08:09:30 AM »

Out of curiosity, what is the typical game like after changing balls? Do you always score worse or is it only some of the time?

I get the impression from your team's response that you don't have the best of luck after changing balls. And as an outsider, if I continually see someone shoot good 1st game scores only to change balls and proceed to average 50 pins less for games 2 and 3, you can bet there will be some rumblings about sandbagging.

And as others have stated, standings in the league ideally shouldn't dictate your decision making. The goal is to shoot the best on every ball you deliver. That includes those balls delivered in the 10th frame of the last game of league from a last place team.

Think of it this way..... If you had the ability to shoot 650 and because of continuous bad ball changes only shoot 550. That equates to a 1-pin drop in average...... every night it happens. Over the course of 36 weeks that is an average about 36 pins less than the bowler's ability. Just saying.

psycaz · « **Reply #18 on:** May 03, 2019, 09:53:23 AM »

Quote from: jimjames on May 03, 2019, 09:19:31 AM

Quote from: Bowlaholic on May 02, 2019, 09:30:00 PM
You're not a bad teammate. As you stated your team was not in any kind of contention, so if you wish to do what you did that's your call.
Now if you had a good look in competition where it mattered, then that's another story.

Same thought here.

Gonna disagree here a bit.

Just because you canâ€™t win the league doesnâ€™t mean you should quit trying either. That sucks for the rest of the team, some of whom seem to want to compete anyway week in, week out.

Itâ€™s one thing if it were to happen once in a while. But if itâ€™s happening every time he shoots a good game, then thereâ€™s a problem. It would bother me if he were my teammate. OP even says if his team were in it still, heâ€™d bowl differently.

ignitebowling · « **Reply #19 on:** May 03, 2019, 10:25:53 AM »

Quote from: Neptune66 on May 02, 2019, 02:14:05 PM

I have a tendency to want to put a ball away after I've had a really good game with it, and my friend (and teammate) says that's selfish if I do it in league.

I can see his point if the team is still in contention for the playoffs and if the game was a 230 or better or with a really strong finish. To put the scores in perspective, I'm only averaging 172 in this league, but 180+ in my other two leagues, and even with those averages, used to get my fair share of 220 or better games. But not so much this year.

And my team was out of contention weeks ago and we're only bowling for points, but still... I bowled a 215 the first game and then decided to switch to a different ball. I had my reasons and again... the 215 was a solid, reasonable game for me ... and clean too. But it wasn't like I was on fire at any point. And I really thought the ball I switched to would work better or at least as good.

It was a colossal mistake with a bad result, and my friend remembers that earlier in the month I had bowled a 255 in the 2nd game and then put that ball away for the 3rd, with similar results. And even that time, I felt that even though I was throwing a phenomenal shot, I was really laboring to get the ball far enough down the lane to maintain the shot, and decided to switch balls before I started missing my mark if I didn't keep the speed up. He accused me of wanting to put the first ball away so I could put it (figuratively speaking) in a trophy case. He was not 100% wrong, but he was not 100% right either.

Unfortunately that perception is there now. I'm not clairvoyant, so am I not allowed to guess which ball I THINK will be best in the next game....even if it's not the one I just bowled great with?

Granted... if we were in the playoffs or in contention, I would be much more conservative and not want to change ANYTHING. Even what I had for dinner or what street I drove on, etc... and, of course, the ball. But we are NOT in contention, and 215 was decent ---especially for me in that particular house---- but it was not phenominal and off the charts, so I don't agree with my friend's view.

Am I a jerk?

Not a jerk. Just sounds like you don't know what you are doing. Especially if when changing bowling balls "just cause" typically leads to bad scores. No matter the teams position there's likely a difference in payout for whatever spot you can move up or down. Use practice to learn your equipment.

psycaz · « **Reply #20 on:** May 03, 2019, 10:36:07 AM »

Quote from: jimjames on May 03, 2019, 10:11:12 AM

Quote from: psycaz on May 03, 2019, 09:53:23 AM
Quote from: jimjames on May 03, 2019, 09:19:31 AM
Quote from: Bowlaholic on May 02, 2019, 09:30:00 PM
You're not a bad teammate. As you stated your team was not in any kind of contention, so if you wish to do what you did that's your call.
Now if you had a good look in competition where it mattered, then that's another story.

Same thought here.

Gonna disagree here a bit.

Just because you canâ€™t win the league doesnâ€™t mean you should quit trying either. That sucks for the rest of the team, some of whom seem to want to compete anyway week in, week out.

Itâ€™s one thing if it were to happen once in a while. But if itâ€™s happening every time he shoots a good game, then thereâ€™s a problem. It would bother me if he were my teammate. OP even says if his team were in it still, heâ€™d bowl differently.

QUIT? Hmmm.

What else should you call it if someone is going to change balls solely because they just shot a good game with it? On more than one occasion. When they admit if they were still in contention, theyâ€™d have stuck with the ball.

BallReviews-Removed0385 · « **Reply #21 on:** May 03, 2019, 10:49:18 AM »

Since we bowl on "invisible" oil, unlike the really good ones who use the blue crap, (don't get me started) sometimes a bowler starts seeing differences in carry and wants to try something else. The last ball of game one is a good idea as a test, but not always do you get a clear picture after one ball. It's definitely a start, though.

Teammates need to be able to trust one another in case one needs help with another set of eyes to maximize scoring for all. Five guys bowling separately are only a team because their scores are added together, unless they act like a team and work together. I'm not trying to say one side here is right or wrong. All I'm saying is teamwork and lane play after game one (the easy one) is often overlooked when building a team.

A few nights ago I warmed up fine (seemingly had a playable look) until the set started. First ball strike. Second through the ninth frame was a disaster, washouts and splits and missed opportunities, and then finished with a strike for bookends, but my score was the lowest I can remember in over 25 years of league play.

Teammates were dumbfounded, I'm sure, but so was I. Not one of them said a negative word to me. Only support. They felt like I'd figure it out. (Remember, this is second shift and sometimes you follow a team that used polyester and urethane and tossed it all over the place, so usually it gets kinda weird.) Game two I made a ball change, and more importantly a footwork change that fixed late timing and shot 256 for a nice recovery. The ball change had little to zero effect on my good game. It was the mechanical issue with my footwork.

My point here is my teammates could have second-guessed everything I was doing, thus making it worse, but didn't.

JohnP · « **Reply #22 on:** May 03, 2019, 11:18:14 AM »

Was the team you were bowling against in contention? -- JohnP

Neptune66 · « **Reply #23 on:** May 03, 2019, 12:38:38 PM »

Thank you for ALL of the responses. Helps me put things in perspective as I respect my friendâ€™s opinion, but I am a â€œfeelâ€ bowler. When the ball feels right (and Iâ€™m talking about the reaction and more, not just the drilling), I get into a groove and can get really hot and go off the sheet.

And sometimes if Iâ€™m bowling a clean or almost clean game with mostly spares I feel like Iâ€™m close to busting loose for a sting of strikes. Other times it just doesnâ€™t seem like Iâ€™m on my groove... even if the pins are falling and it LOOKS like I am.

And just because weâ€™re out of contention does not mean that I would ever deliberately bowl poorly. But I did see it as a license to be more liberal in making ball changes for any reason â€”- as long as the ball being switched to is clearly inferior to the 1st ball, which it wasnâ€™t. It proved to be the wrong choice, but it wasnâ€™t done in a cavalier way.

The problem is that I admit to BEING selfish (or at least foolish) on other occasions. I just disagree with his presumption that any change was a bad change. And because I bowled bad, heâ€™s making a blanket statement about my behavior.

Heâ€™s looking at it as me not caring st all about the potential impact on the team if itâ€™s a bad ball change. Iâ€™m looking at it as a manager of a team eliminated from playoff contention and not overwhelmed with the performance of one player, who then decides to see what another player can do. But that player then stinks up the place, and now the manager is being accused of deliberately trying to lose the game.

Itâ€™s not a black and white issue to me, it my friend disagrees and sees no good reason that I changed. And I confess the 1st game was technically 40 pins over average, but Iâ€™m capable of more, and it was more like I was hanging on and [successfully] avoiding mistakes. I didnâ€™t feel I was rolling that good despite the numbers.

BowlingForDonuts · « **Reply #24 on:** May 03, 2019, 03:38:48 PM »

Quote from: jkirkerx on May 03, 2019, 02:48:07 PM

I remember when I first started bowling, I wanted to win games and points and I would of said the same that your friend said. I would of gave you a really hard time about it.

Today we bowl extra games after league and do our what if I would of used this ball, or that ball. Or if I saw you change balls after a 40+ game; I would stop you and tell you that ball is working fine, don't change balls right now.

For a Vegas league, I just bring 2 balls, so I won't have the temptation to change. Get one of them to the pocket and make it work.

Maybe you should just take one ball next time, or one with a spare ball to fix your bad habit and make good with your friend. Run it by him first so he doesn't ask why did only bring those two?

+1 especially on house shot. Nothing helped my average like only bringing my Hy-Road and spare ball to league.

Neptune66 · « **Reply #25 on:** May 03, 2019, 03:55:17 PM »

LOL. He won't ask me why I only brought two.

The thing is... I have no problem with my friend admonishing me or even what he is saying. And I admit to being selfish at times in the past, so it IS a bit of a wake up call. But I disagree with his logic that it's ALWAYS best to not change if you are being successful IN THE EYES OF YOUR TEAMMATES, even if you, yourself, are not pleased with the results. And I'm annoyed that I should have to sort of get the ok from my teammates (or one of them, at least) to change balls.

Most ironically, the occasion he chose as an example was not a good one, cause I really didn't see THAT much of a difference between the two balls I switched between. They were both older balls and not real weak or real strong. If anything, the 2nd ball was stronger, but it was also a 15 (the first ball was a 16). Point is... this was not a radical change like from a heavy oil monster to a plastic or spare ball. My gut was just telling me that I might have more success with ball #2. I was wrong and it exposed me to criticism....mainly from this one guy. He says he's speaking for all of them, but they're not exactly shrinking violets, so I'm not buying it. Not that they might not agree with him. But it's not like they asked him to talk to me or anything like that.

Anyway... I guess what I'm trying to say is that while I may have been guilty of exactly what my friend is saying in the past. I was mostly innocent this time. Is kind of like when you get a traffic ticket for an offense you HAVE committed many times and gotten away with it, but now you're getting a ticket and you truly believe you were innocent on this occasion, and it kind of bugs you. At least it does me.

psycaz · « **Reply #26 on:** May 03, 2019, 04:37:33 PM »

Thing is, they only have the past to go off of. You admit youâ€™ve done it in the past. To them or just him, this was just another instance of the same thing. And even about this time you say â€œmostly innocentâ€. You appear to be leaving yourself wiggle room.

Try it this way:

How many times have you shot a good/great game and then switched?

How many times did you follow it up with a decent/good game?

How many times did you follow it up with a bad one?

If you say itâ€™s (almost) never worked, then you know you have a problem.

If itâ€™s almost never failed, then he/they have the problem.

50/50 youâ€™re all screwed lol. No one will be happy.

avabob · « **Reply #27 on:** May 03, 2019, 04:56:35 PM »

If you are just throwing the dice on a ball change then I think you are only guilty poor strategy. You need to have a knowledge of what is happening with your current ball, and an expectation of what will happen with the next ball

Skip H · « **Reply #28 on:** May 03, 2019, 05:02:36 PM »

Quote from: psycaz on May 03, 2019, 04:37:33 PM

Thing is, they only have the past to go off of. You admit youâ€™ve done it in the past. To them or just him, this was just another instance of the same thing. And even about this time you say â€œmostly innocentâ€. You appear to be leaving yourself wiggle room.

Try it this way:

How many times have you shot a good/great game and then switched?

How many times did you follow it up with a decent/good game?

How many times did you follow it up with a bad one?

If you say itâ€™s (almost) never worked, then you know you have a problem.

If itâ€™s almost never failed, then he/they have the problem.

50/50 youâ€™re all screwed lol. No one will be happy.

+1. I not only have a problem with the "mostly innocent" but also the comments on wanting to "manage" the team. If you are managing bowling scores you are trying to keep an average in a range that you are happy with. If you "managed" to have your highest average ever it was more likely less managing and planning than just the fact that you managed to have fewer lower games and more high games than you did in the past.

Maybe it's time to find a new team. Your friend is obviously not happy with your decision making process and if he knew that you were just trying to manage the team he would likely be extremely upset.

itsallaboutme · « **Reply #29 on:** May 03, 2019, 09:44:36 PM »

172 and you're a "feel" bowler. Maybe you should feel yourself making more good shots.

milorafferty · « **Reply #30 on:** May 03, 2019, 10:11:03 PM »

Quote from: itsallaboutme on May 03, 2019, 09:44:36 PM

172 and you're a "feel" bowler. Maybe you should feel yourself making more good shots.

Damn, that's funny! 😂

Author Topic: Friend says I am a bad teammate (Read 11785 times)

Neptune66

Friend says I am a bad teammate

rackattack

Re: Friend says I am a bad teammate

spmcgivern

Re: Friend says I am a bad teammate

psycaz

Re: Friend says I am a bad teammate

ignitebowling

Re: Friend says I am a bad teammate

psycaz

Re: Friend says I am a bad teammate

BallReviews-Removed0385

Re: Friend says I am a bad teammate

JohnP

Re: Friend says I am a bad teammate

Neptune66

Re: Friend says I am a bad teammate

BowlingForDonuts

Re: Friend says I am a bad teammate

Neptune66

Re: Friend says I am a bad teammate

psycaz

Re: Friend says I am a bad teammate

avabob

Re: Friend says I am a bad teammate

Skip H

Re: Friend says I am a bad teammate

itsallaboutme

Re: Friend says I am a bad teammate

milorafferty

Re: Friend says I am a bad teammate