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Author Topic: Friend says I am a bad teammate  (Read 4499 times)

Neptune66

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Friend says I am a bad teammate
« on: May 02, 2019, 02:14:05 PM »
I have a tendency to want to put a ball away after I've had a really good game with it, and my friend (and teammate) says that's selfish if I do it in league.

I can see his point if the team is still in contention for the playoffs and if the game was a 230 or better or with a really strong finish. To put the scores in perspective, I'm only averaging 172 in this league, but 180+ in my other two leagues, and even with those averages, used to get my fair share of 220 or better games.  But not so much this year.

And my team was out of contention weeks ago and we're only bowling for points, but still...   I bowled a 215 the first game and then decided to switch to a different ball.  I had my reasons and again...  the 215 was a solid, reasonable game for me ... and clean too.  But it wasn't like I was on fire at any point.  And I really thought the ball I switched to would work better or at least as good.

It was a colossal mistake with a bad result, and my friend remembers that earlier in the month I had bowled a 255 in the 2nd game and then put that ball away for the 3rd, with similar results.  And even that time, I felt that even though I was throwing a phenomenal shot, I was really laboring to get the ball far enough down the lane  to maintain the shot, and decided to switch balls before I started missing my mark if I didn't keep the speed up.  He accused me of wanting to put the first ball away so I could put it (figuratively speaking) in a trophy case.   He was not 100% wrong, but he was not 100% right either.

Unfortunately that perception is there now. I'm not clairvoyant, so am I not allowed to guess which ball I THINK will be best in the next game....even if it's not the one I just bowled great with?

Granted...  if we were in the playoffs or in contention, I would be much more conservative and not want to change ANYTHING. Even what I had for dinner or what street I drove on, etc... and, of course, the ball.  But we are NOT in contention, and 215 was decent ---especially for me in that particular house---- but it was not phenominal and off the charts, so I don't agree with my friend's view.

Am I a jerk?

 

Neptune66

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Re: Friend says I am a bad teammate
« Reply #61 on: May 09, 2019, 04:40:17 PM »
No, not to vent.  Was interested in consensus view of persons not directly involved and wanted to see where the disconnect was.  Most of you sided with my friend and explained his position very well.  A few of you could see my perspective (that the criticism was a bit over zealous).

In short...  I don't think I deserved the admonishment by my friend with quite the severity with which it was given (especially at the end of the season, when I can't make changes). But HAVE been enlightened as to the potential for disaster if I make a change when I appear to be bowling well and the scores plummet.

Kingh30

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Re: Friend says I am a bad teammate
« Reply #62 on: May 10, 2019, 01:57:57 PM »
Hey first time commenting, great to he here. My take on this is that unless advice is asked for, learning about ball motion and recognizing how the ball exits the deck, both on pocket hits that strike, or not, is all important. Knowing why you're making a ball change is imperative. It's my belief that feet and eye target  moves should be tried, if not exhausted before ball changes. The only thing that promotes early ball changes is noticeable over/under cliffing. 172 average bowlers are "finer tuning" away from 195 and beyond. Keeping speed up, or slowing down, different releases, foot work to allow for speed increases without muscling your downswing..it's all a part of the game. Ball changes are just another tool. I have bowler after bowler ask me why I need more than one ball..omg

RedShirtBowler

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Re: Friend says I am a bad teammate
« Reply #63 on: May 11, 2019, 01:29:02 PM »
I would say if you continue to bowl with this team you should only bring two balls...a spare ball and the best strike ball (solid, hybrid or pearl) that you feel gives you the best chance to score. Make your spares and shoot in the 190-205 range. Everyone will be happy.

tommygn

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Re: Friend says I am a bad teammate
« Reply #64 on: May 13, 2019, 10:38:09 AM »

Recently had the drilling adjusted on two of of my balls, and on the night in question, was using one of them in the first game to be sure the drilling was comfortable. It was, and I bowled the 215 with it.  Then I switched to the other ball that had the same new drilling, cause I wanted to be sure it was good too.

It felt good, and threw a strike in the first frame,  but after a few frames my aim was deteriorating and I SHOULD have changed back to the first ball, but stubbornly did not  because I truly thought I would ultimately do better with the  all I was using.


Practice is the time to "experiment" with different spans and pitches. Based on your post, it doesn't seem like you "practiced" at all with the change, and that would be frustrating to a teammate, who sees you putting balls away after 40 pins above your average. If you want to experiment during league play, bowl a singles league. Team means team, which means you put your best foot forward for the team.

It isn't about "looking bad", it's about being selfish, and you're wanting to prove your teammates wrong, is selfish, and not a team player, like it or not. Giving %100 every shot no matter the results (120 or 220), is a team player. Knowing you haven't practiced with a ball at all, and continue with it after bad results, is selfish.
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Neptune66

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Re: Friend says I am a bad teammate
« Reply #65 on: May 13, 2019, 12:20:43 PM »
If the team had still been in contention for first place ----even mathematically, no matter how bad the odds---- this post would never have happened.

No argument here about how foolish/selfish it would be to switch balls for the wrong reason in a game that still counted.  But my team was mathematically eliminated at least 2 weeks before this, so I viewed it as an opportunity to be more liberal with changes than when it DID still matter.

Now before everyone goes all flaming on me.   I do recognize that not everyone agrees that once 1st place is impossible that it doesn't matter, but I'm sorry.  That's how I feel, or should I say... have always felt.  After the "discussion" with my friend/teammate this year, it's apparent that HE did NOT feel that way. And now that I have been enlightened, I will be more considerate of that view.

But this is the first time in over 20 years that not even one of my 3 teams has been mathematically still in it until the last or even the next to last week of the season.  Yes..   this is the first time in at least 20 years that none of my teams made it to the playoffs.  Not looking for sympathy. Just explaining that until this year I had never BEEN in a situation where I felt that none of my games mattered anymore.

I've been very fortunate, especially considering that many of the teams that I made it to the playoffs with weren't exactly rolling over people like a juggernaut.  But win we did, and this year had felt like early spring training for next season for a long time before the night in question.

tommygn

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Re: Friend says I am a bad teammate
« Reply #66 on: May 14, 2019, 12:42:24 PM »
If the team had still been in contention for first place ----even mathematically, no matter how bad the odds---- this post would never have happened.

No argument here about how foolish/selfish it would be to switch balls for the wrong reason in a game that still counted.  But my team was mathematically eliminated at least 2 weeks before this, so I viewed it as an opportunity to be more liberal with changes than when it DID still matter.

Now before everyone goes all flaming on me.   I do recognize that not everyone agrees that once 1st place is impossible that it doesn't matter, but I'm sorry.  That's how I feel, or should I say... have always felt.  After the "discussion" with my friend/teammate this year, it's apparent that HE did NOT feel that way. And now that I have been enlightened, I will be more considerate of that view.

But this is the first time in over 20 years that not even one of my 3 teams has been mathematically still in it until the last or even the next to last week of the season.  Yes..   this is the first time in at least 20 years that none of my teams made it to the playoffs.  Not looking for sympathy. Just explaining that until this year I had never BEEN in a situation where I felt that none of my games mattered anymore.

I've been very fortunate, especially considering that many of the teams that I made it to the playoffs with weren't exactly rolling over people like a juggernaut.  But win we did, and this year had felt like early spring training for next season for a long time before the night in question.

I don't think anyone has, or is calling you a bad person, and not trying to bash. Just trying to show you the other side of the coin.

Try to look at it like this.

People think it's no big deal to take a few pens or paper clips home without asking permission, from their work. But if you take a printer, it's considered stealing. Guess what, BOTH are stealing, because that person is not authorized to remove those items from the office. A handful of pens and paper clips add up over time.

Same thing with bowling, it doesn't matter if you are flat out throwing a gutter ball in the middle of the season because you are already in first place, and have a point won, OR, if you have no shot at anything at the end of the season and you continue to experiment even though it's going really really bad (your words). It's still not giving it 100%, which IS a form of sandbagging. All leagues I have ever been associated with, exception being no cap scratch, use the last years averages for the start of the new year to determine average caps and handicap going forward. It ALL counts.
God creates us with a blank canvas, and the "picture" we paint is up to us. Paint a picture you like and love!

Neptune66

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Re: Friend says I am a bad teammate
« Reply #67 on: May 14, 2019, 04:01:56 PM »
The only thing I will say in rebuttal (no argument on the rest) is about the sandbagging. Because I didnít switch balls in order to bowl a lower score. I really thought I would bowl a higher score because of the switch.

Of course it didnít turn out that way.  Was not sandbagging though.
« Last Edit: May 14, 2019, 04:06:44 PM by Neptune66 »

Kegler300800

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Re: Friend says I am a bad teammate
« Reply #68 on: May 15, 2019, 11:03:07 AM »
Since more times than not you admit to throwing a lower score, I would call it sandbagging.
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TDC57

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Re: Friend says I am a bad teammate
« Reply #69 on: May 15, 2019, 08:53:00 PM »
You had no real or logical reason to switch balls. That's the bottom line. Changing balls because you thought something was going to change is ridiculous. You stay with the ball you just shot 40 pins over your average with until you saw change. Then at least for a frame you make an adjustment. If that doesn't work you change. Guys that only average in the low 170s don't switch balls after bowling 40 over. I have bowled for 47 years and have never seen a bowler with that average do such a thing. If you don't bowl over your average after you switch why would any teammate be happy with you? Any bowler in your league would be reasonable thinking you were sandbagging after seeing you do this more than once, even if you were innocent.

Neptune66

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Re: Friend says I am a bad teammate
« Reply #70 on: May 16, 2019, 06:48:14 AM »
Acknowledged earlier in this post that I wasnít aware that my personal decision to change balls could be viewed with that perspective, so I see your point. Never occurred to me that it could be seen as deliberately trying to lower my average, and do plan to adjust myself going forward.

But hypothetically speaking, after bowling 90 games in the league, what would someone gain by deliberately bowling bad? Average wonít move hardy at all, so what would be the motivation (to sandbag in that situation)?



« Last Edit: May 16, 2019, 06:50:16 AM by Neptune66 »

milorafferty

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Re: Friend says I am a bad teammate
« Reply #71 on: May 16, 2019, 08:33:55 AM »
Okay, we give up. What is your motivation for  it?
"If guns kill people, do pencils misspell words?"

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tommygn

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Re: Friend says I am a bad teammate
« Reply #72 on: May 16, 2019, 09:08:03 AM »
Neptune66,

"Hypothetically speaking"; Actually, in reality, the point where you said "I wouldn't have stayed with the ball, if we weren't out of contention for first", was when it became sandbagging.

It isn't "stealing a copier", but it is "taking paper clips and pens".

God creates us with a blank canvas, and the "picture" we paint is up to us. Paint a picture you like and love!

psycaz

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Re: Friend says I am a bad teammate
« Reply #73 on: May 16, 2019, 12:27:24 PM »
Acknowledged earlier in this post that I wasnít aware that my personal decision to change balls could be viewed with that perspective, so I see your point. Never occurred to me that it could be seen as deliberately trying to lower my average, and do plan to adjust myself going forward.

But hypothetically speaking, after bowling 90 games in the league, what would someone gain by deliberately bowling bad? Average wonít move hardy at all, so what would be the motivation (to sandbag in that situation)?

It could be for any number of reasons. Pin here, pin there and you could be rerated to a lower division for tournaments. Jackpots. Anything where your average is used is open game for interpretation.

A lot bowlers arenít going to know or care really as to why you or might not be doing it. All theyíre gonna see is you tanking after throwing a good game.

Skip H

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Re: Friend says I am a bad teammate
« Reply #74 on: May 16, 2019, 12:37:16 PM »
Tommy,

Am I allowed to say that I was sandbagging when I didn't win a point against Dan for about three years straight?  I would feel much better if I could use that as an excuse for getting my butt kicked.

Neptune66

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Re: Friend says I am a bad teammate
« Reply #75 on: May 16, 2019, 01:05:01 PM »
I give up (after this).

Was willing to concede that ball changing under certain circumstances can give the appearance of impropriety and sometimes the appearance of it can be as bad as if it were real. AND I realize that there many members of this group that consistently bowl at a much higher level and regularly compete in tournaments.  And I won't compare myself to you in terms of skill level and knowledge of the game.  You are all light years ahead of me.

I don't regularly bowl in tournaments (it's been at least two years since my last) and my Men's leagues are competitive and everyone (including me!) is serious about winning all the time.

But you all have a really bad blind spot about this sandbagging thing, cause I am NOT at your level and based on some of your own comments I am not good enough to deliberately bowl bad, even if that was my intention. So for you to accuse me of having some complex diabolical plan to deliberately shave a few hundreths of a percentage off of my average is utterly absurd.

In short:

1) My friend was right.  I was being a bad teammate (unknowingly), but now I know that and will modify my behavior accordingly.

2) Some of you are so off the wall with your sandbagging comments, that I feel much better about what he said to me (i.e. am no longer annoyed or irritated about what he said to me.  I really DO understand now what he was trying to communicate.

3) You all helped me in various ways, and I give you all full credit for enlightening me about my original post.  But you also need to keep things in context.  Knowing what you did about my average, my motivation, and the circumstances SHOULD have tempered some of your comments on sandbagging.

You all have the floor.  I promise I won't reply anymore to this thread no matter what, so whomever does will have the last word.

Thanks for the enlightenment. No thanks for the ridiculous accusations of sandbagging.