BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: ITZPS on March 27, 2017, 05:19:33 PM
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Two things handicap needs: rule adjustment/reform, ENFORCEMENT. Thanks for watching, argue with me below LOL.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C44EOoYzlw8
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As always, your on point again, I have subscribed to your channel.
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Great video. I agree whole-heartedly.
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Good video, and strong points made. One thing you didn't discuss was how averages change from league to league and center to center, and how these averages are "abused" in tournaments. Example. If I bowled 2 leagues this season and averaged 230 in a newer well maintained center, and 205 in a run down beat up center with wood lanes, then obviously I would have to use my higher average for my State tournament, or City tournament, or other handicap tournaments.
However, let's say this next season I decide to only bowl league at the center I average 205 in. Now when I bowl handicap tournaments, I get to use an average of 205 and all of a sudden I'm getting handicap that I really shouldn't be getting. Now I would be playing 100% within the rules, but I would undeniably getting an advantage over other bowlers. In the Midwest, there are several small 8-12 lane centers that get about two 300 games a year, not 50-100 like several of the larger centers. I don't really know what the answer would be to fix this, but this is and will continue to be a big problem in my opinion.
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Good video, and strong points made. One thing you didn't discuss was how averages change from league to league and center to center, and how these averages are "abused" in tournaments. Example. If I bowled 2 leagues this season and averaged 230 in a newer well maintained center, and 205 in a run down beat up center with wood lanes, then obviously I would have to use my higher average for my State tournament, or City tournament, or other handicap tournaments.
However, let's say this next season I decide to only bowl league at the center I average 205 in. Now when I bowl handicap tournaments, I get to use an average of 205 and all of a sudden I'm getting handicap that I really shouldn't be getting. Now I would be playing 100% within the rules, but I would undeniably getting an advantage over other bowlers. In the Midwest, there are several small 8-12 lane centers that get about two 300 games a year, not 50-100 like several of the larger centers. I don't really know what the answer would be to fix this, but this is and will continue to be a big problem in my opinion.
Most of the leagues and tournaments in my area address that sort of issue with where and when your highest average comes from. That is, they go back at least 3 years in all USBC sanctioned competition, with local associations, then all state associations having precedence over those outside the state..
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Tournaments are a big issue and I did make note that scratch bowlers usually avoid handicap tournaments or just put up with it. Leagues usually you don't have much choice over what you bowl, you may just have to bowl what you have available, but tournaments you can pick and choose. I don't bowl many tournaments, and the ones I do, I know what I'm getting myself into.
In the circumstances you mentioned, rules are rules, always follow the rules. I'm in a very unique situation this year due to simply following the rules, but have argued with as many people as I can argue with about fixing the rules. Unless someone changes the rules, your choices are to deal with it or just not bowl the tournament unfortunately . . but it's funny how many people want to take something serious until it comes to them actually doing something about it, then they shrink into a corner . .
Good video, and strong points made. One thing you didn't discuss was how averages change from league to league and center to center, and how these averages are "abused" in tournaments. Example. If I bowled 2 leagues this season and averaged 230 in a newer well maintained center, and 205 in a run down beat up center with wood lanes, then obviously I would have to use my higher average for my State tournament, or City tournament, or other handicap tournaments.
However, let's say this next season I decide to only bowl league at the center I average 205 in. Now when I bowl handicap tournaments, I get to use an average of 205 and all of a sudden I'm getting handicap that I really shouldn't be getting. Now I would be playing 100% within the rules, but I would undeniably getting an advantage over other bowlers. In the Midwest, there are several small 8-12 lane centers that get about two 300 games a year, not 50-100 like several of the larger centers. I don't really know what the answer would be to fix this, but this is and will continue to be a big problem in my opinion.
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3 years for me is ideal, most only go back a year. You can't make it so easy for someone to sandbag and then complain when they do . .
Good video, and strong points made. One thing you didn't discuss was how averages change from league to league and center to center, and how these averages are "abused" in tournaments. Example. If I bowled 2 leagues this season and averaged 230 in a newer well maintained center, and 205 in a run down beat up center with wood lanes, then obviously I would have to use my higher average for my State tournament, or City tournament, or other handicap tournaments.
However, let's say this next season I decide to only bowl league at the center I average 205 in. Now when I bowl handicap tournaments, I get to use an average of 205 and all of a sudden I'm getting handicap that I really shouldn't be getting. Now I would be playing 100% within the rules, but I would undeniably getting an advantage over other bowlers. In the Midwest, there are several small 8-12 lane centers that get about two 300 games a year, not 50-100 like several of the larger centers. I don't really know what the answer would be to fix this, but this is and will continue to be a big problem in my opinion.
Most of the leagues and tournaments in my area address that sort of issue with where and when your highest average comes from. That is, they go back at least 3 years in all USBC sanctioned competition, with local associations, then all state associations having precedence over those outside the state..
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Couldn't agree more ^^
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How do you guys feel about NEGATIVE handicap?
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How do you guys feel about NEGATIVE handicap?
nope
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How do you guys feel about NEGATIVE handicap?
No, it just needs to be based on an amount equal to or higher than the highest average
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This is what I feel is fair. They say in certain programs you can't have fluctuating handicap, but one thing a league I'm in has done to make things easier is that everyone has their own individual handicap for league awards, BUT for team placement or wins and losses, handicap is 90% of the difference between the two teams averages. This year we have seen a VERY tight standings board, and I like it that way. Very good idea we came up with and it's worked well.
How do you guys feel about NEGATIVE handicap?
No, it just needs to be based on an amount equal to or higher than the highest average
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I avoid handicap tournaments like the plague...and it really stinks because that means I don't bowl many tournaments. Even states or counties that have "both divisions" it still isn't worth it because the scratch division gets no one in it and the prize fund is pitiful. If I win the division I get like $100 and it cost 20 to get in! LOL!!!
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I'm fortunate to have been able to bowl nothing but scratch leagues for the past 15 years or so. I have been of the school of "just get better" and avoid the handicap nonsense.
This year, I decided to bowl a a daytime senior league with my aging mom. Handicap is 100% of 200, and you get your full average if you're absent. I entered with a 227 book, which gives me 27 "bonus" pins a game. Nobody seems to care. I explained the built in advantage I was getting at the league meeting, and proposed 100% of 230 for my situation. I was voted down! Maybe they just didn't get it, but whatever. I tried to do the right thing.
In any case, this experience has given me a whole new perspective on handicap bowling. These people for the most part only bowl once a week, and they're not going to get better. It's the same with most younger adults in nighttime handicap leagues. So my attitude now is that 100% is just fine. There are so many flaws in handicap by it's very nature that's it's futile to come up with something perfect. Leave it at 100% of a number larger than the highest average in the league and just have fun. It's not worth stressing over.
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This is what I feel is fair. They say in certain programs you can't have fluctuating handicap, but one thing a league I'm in has done to make things easier is that everyone has their own individual handicap for league awards, BUT for team placement or wins and losses, handicap is 90% of the difference between the two teams averages. This year we have seen a VERY tight standings board, and I like it that way. Very good idea we came up with and it's worked well.
How do you guys feel about NEGATIVE handicap?
No, it just needs to be based on an amount equal to or higher than the highest average
I like handicap based on the team differences.
For those worried about fluctuating average base, just use 300. Get the same result. Sounds weird but produces the same effect. Those complaining about handicap may push back due to ignorance, but this will protect against someone averaging higher than the base.
I think Luke said as much in the video, can't remember.
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So if the highest average in the league is say 226. Would you set it at 100% of 230? Assuming the league doesn't adopt the 300 option as mentioned above.
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How do you guys feel about NEGATIVE handicap?
A mathematically unnecessary complication.
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So if the highest average in the league is say 226. Would you set it at 100% of 230? Assuming the league doesn't adopt the 300 option as mentioned above.
yes, of course.
You set the handicap basis a few pins above the highest average of the league to avoid the complication of negative handicaps. many software packages used by centers cannot do negative handicaps. Then you get the triple complication of humans having to do the computations on the night's tally sheet. It's bad enough that 90% bowling cannot keep score with a paper and pencil; having them do this is insane. Pity the poor secretary in such a league!
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This year, I decided to bowl a a daytime senior league with my aging mom. Handicap is 100% of 200, and you get your full average if you're absent. I entered with a 227 book, which gives me 27 "bonus" pins a game. Nobody seems to care. I explained the built in advantage I was getting at the league meeting, and proposed 100% of 230 for my situation. I was voted down! Maybe they just didn't get it, but whatever. I tried to do the right thing.
I had a similar situation a few years back when I bowled a work league; all 12 teams came from my employer or immediate family of employees.
I tried to explain that it was to my advantage averaging 217 when handicap was based on 200. even did the math on a white board to prove it. These people thought I was getting screwed by having a zero handicap so they voted to keep the basis at 200.
and most of those people were engineers, supposedly good at math! never felt more ashamed at my profession....