Post by: Also Sprach Zaruthstra on May 11, 2011, 05:39:23 AM
Much discussion lately has been about the evolution and demise of bowling. There is not much mention of cost. I remember when bowling was $7.50 a week and the one ball you used was $59. So here are some basic numbers based on where I live:
1) Three ball arsenal including spare ball $500 (per year average)
2) League fee for one league $20 @ 35 weeks $700
3) Gasoline for the 45-60 minute drive $300 a year (estimate)
4) Food and Beverage $300 a year (estimate)
5) Practice before league $10 @ 35 weeks $350
6) Sanction fee $14
7) Misc items like tape,rosin, sure slide, ball polish, etc...$50
Total for bowling once a week for $35 weeks $2214 a year!
Additional league double that number excluding equipment! Add a tournament or two and you are looking at $4000 a year to bowl.
Is it worth it?
ASZ
Post by: al_g on May 11, 2011, 03:22:31 PM
I won't disagree with your current prices or costs but how long ago are you talking on the older prices? The prices you mention are what I remember paying when I first bowled adult leagues in 1986. What about the cost of living increase from 1986 to now?
If I go to a cost of living calculator, I used
which says $7.50 in 1986 would be $15.07 today. I pay $15 for league today. Back then a higher prize money league would've been $10 which equates to $20.09 today. So that seems right to me.
A $60 ball would be $120.55 today. I can get an entry level resin ball for that online. I don't ever remember buying a urethane ball for less than around $79 back then which would equate to $158.72 today. When you add $50 for drilling the argument could be made that balls are more expensive now but I think that's more a function of different materials and R&D that goes into today's equipment. Comparing urethane to urethane, I don't think I'd pay more than $130-140 for a urethane Avalanche including drilling today so it could be said urethane balls are cheaper today.
So regarding league bowling I don't think cost is a factor in the decline of bowling discussion.
To answer your question is it worth it? I guess it depends on the person and their perspective. To me the cost is worth it. Bowling's an interest for me, not a job. I like the people I've met over the years and like the competition that scratch leagues and tournaments provide. I know many people who spend just as much or more on interests like golf, having season tickets to football/basketball or other activities.
Edited by al_g on 5/11/2011 at 3:23 PM
Post by: clint191 on May 11, 2011, 03:25:59 PM
If you are paying those type prices each week then NO it probably isn't worth it. However, alot of
the "expenses" you listed aren't for your avg bowler.
1- most bowlers (maybe not the ones on this website) don't buy 3 new balls a yr and if so one of them
isn't a spare ball
2- most bowlers don't live 45 miles away from the place they bowl league so they aren't spending that much on gasoline (but that expense is climbing!!!)
3- the money you're spending on food/beverage will be spent whether or not you're at a bowling
alley or not. We all gotta eat...
4- not sure how many warm up gms you're putting in, but $10 for practice before league is kind of
steep. Most centers offer $2 gms or less and/or $5 hr of practice.
5- the "incidentals like tape, rosin, cleaner, etc are just like throw away money aka scratch offs or a soda at
work???
Bowling has certainly become more expensive than past yrs, but IMO it's still much cheaper than some other sports such as playing softball every weekend or golf once or twice a week.
(and I usually don't get anywhere near as mad at myself)!!!!
Post by: bullred on May 11, 2011, 11:14:58 PM
If you add up the costs for a once a weekbowler, you will probably quit bowling. You have to put a price on the "night out". A hamburger/fries probably 4.50. Gasoline to get there
maybe 4.00, bowling cost 16.00, one beer or coke 2.00, cost to get home 4.o0. Winning 4 games 28.00 divided 4 ways. Total outlay $27.00. Not a good way to make a living, in fact not a good way to spend an evening. $9.00 a game is pretty expensive.
Post by: bullred on May 11, 2011, 11:15:10 PM
If you add up the costs for a once a weekbowler, you will probably quit bowling. You have to put a price on the "night out". A hamburger/fries probably 4.50. Gasoline to get there
maybe 4.00, bowling cost 16.00, one beer or coke 2.00, cost to get home 4.o0. Winning 4 games 28.00 divided 4 ways. Total outlay $27.00. Not a good way to make a living, in fact not a good way to spend an evening. $9.00 a game is pretty expensive.
Post by: kidlost2000 on May 11, 2011, 11:48:27 PM
My cost to bowl.
Bowling balls= a lot.( I average two to three balls at what most will pay for one. I usually buy a lot through the season) Still for a three ball arsenal with a high end and two mid line balls we will say $230 drilled.
Cost of bowling $16 a league night x 32 weeks $512
Cost of games to practice before league $0 (are league doesn't allow it)
Cost of food $0 I eat before I go bowl.
Cost of drinks for the season $20 I usually go with out
Fuel would be 30 minutes round trip and only every other week so $56 total
So one season would be $818 This year our team got back about $400 a person so that brings the total to $418
Be good, or be good at it.
Post by: John D Davis on May 12, 2011, 12:29:50 AM
I like what some of you guys said, like Clint, and Kid......... I also dont like what some of you other guys had to say, thinking that the cost of bowling is to high,etc. I only mainly have one thing to say or to explain. """""""YOUR AVERAGE BOWLER HAS THE FOLLOWING"""""""
He or She may have 1 Hook ball at the most. Some bowlers will not even have a Hook ball...etc. So for people to have a spare ball. Well some of them would be like "whats a spare ball"? There are areas around the world were bowling is very popular and Im sure some of you are going to argue with everything Im saying. I bowl in a league in a small town called Mount Airy, NC. It is a 16 lane house, and like any other houses, have maybe 5-8 leagues a week whatnot. That being said, I would say that they have well over a couple hundred or more league bowlers. Within that couple hundred, I would also go out on a limb and say that they're may be at the most 15-20 bowlers that would be considered "above" average bowlers and perhaps may even pay in the amounts that the auther mentioned per year. But as far as AVERAGE, the other 80-90% of the total bowlers, spend only a fraction of what you mentioned.
I would like to add one more thing to this..... Your so called "AVERAGE BOWLER" will not know what ballreviews.com is. Hell, your average bowler wont even know that bowlingball.com or ebay is the cheapest places to purchase stuff from. Need I say more? John
Post by: dizzyfugu on May 12, 2011, 01:13:15 AM
I'd like to throw in a twist from the local situation. Bowling IS an expensive hobby. If you want to play frequently, esp. in bigger cities, you have to join a club because most centers offer game rebates - without this "support" you can hardly afford frequent training.
Some centers call for EUR5 (which is about USD9 per game!) per game for open bowlers, club members get along with EUR2, sometimes even EUR1 per game, but most of the time only when capacity allows.
Then add equipment prices: a triple roller is hard to get for less than EUR100, a mid-range ball costs EUR150 and a high end piece passes the EUR200 limit, drilling extra. You really have to be nuts to sink so much money into a hobby/sport, and only few players receive sponsoring or material support. Other expenses like traveling to league sites are also paid from private funds, as well as club membership fees.
DizzyFugu - Reporting from Germany
Confused by bowling? Check out BR.com's vault of wisdom: the unofficial FAQ section
Confused by bowling? Check out BR.com's vault of wisdom: the unofficial FAQ section
Edited by dizzyfugu on 12.05.2011 at 1:14 AM
Post by: Russell on May 12, 2011, 06:48:51 AM
Well...I think the original poster has a valid point. I speak more from a competitive bowler's perspective. Let's be real without high end bowling, the sport is nothing more than a recreational game...which isn't organized. I don't think the price is running people off, I think it is ball companies making disposable bowling balls. They keep making balls that push the envelope of hook, and die faster and faster. 10 years ago ball death wasn't near the problem it is now. People buy a Taboo and bowl 2 nights a week, an occasional tournament and they need a new ball in 3 months. Tournaments are also getting worse, as the entry fees don't come down, there are fewer bowlers, and they continue to try and pay $3 to $5k for 1st place. You end up with a field of 50, 1st makes $3k and 4th place gets their entry fee back. I think that is another factor.
I will be honest....if they held "pride" tournaments where the entry was $25 and the winner got a trophy...I would still bowl. Anyone who is bowling to try and make extra money is just stupid (unless you're the .00001% that actually make a profit).
Little known fact: In Russian "Hope" and "Change" translate to "Tax" and "Spend"
Post by: kidlost2000 on May 12, 2011, 08:17:20 AM
I think ball death is more related to lack of ball maintenance then the bowling manufacture. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but I've never experienced it. Most new hook monsters have a dull surface that after 20-30 games becomes a very shinned surface from lane oil. Most bowlers, not all, just keep bowling with the ball and never have it resurfaced or cleaned to get the factory surface back. Another factor is many shops don't know how to get the ball back to factory surface or how to get oil extracted from a bowling ball.(extraction can be done from home by anyone)
Still for most bowlers even competitive the hook monsters aren't needed, and one can find a lot of hook at a lower price point for almost any condition. As someone who enjoys bowling and buys more sh..tuff then needed I can say safely that a good bowler can compete with a three to four ball arsenal and if maintained can get plenty of use for a long time from it. That being said we are all sold on the next best newest thing to come out. In bowling that is a monthly process.
Most bowling tournaments are relatively cheap and brackets can be a great way for any level bowler to win money.
Be good, or be good at it.
Post by: s1nger1 on May 12, 2011, 08:56:20 AM
I agree with this post. I know quite a few people that have quit because of cost. If I took the cost of my two leagues $15 and $21. It would add up to $1300. My cost to bowl just league alone is $144 per month. I ended up with $370.00 back at the end of the year. That doesn't include bowling balls, food, supplies, gas and other items needed.
Post by: JOE FALCO on May 12, 2011, 09:12:20 AM
If the cost isn't killing bowling .. what is????
Get Motivated .. get Motiv
J O E - F A L C O
RIP Thong Princess/Sawbones
Post by: storm making it rain on May 12, 2011, 09:33:57 AM
For those of you that blame the price for the demise of bowling, I ask you this:
What is life doesn't cost more today than it did 20 years ago???? What recreation/sport/activity is still at the same price level??? Are all of you paying the same amount of bills in dollars you always have???
Plain and simple the answer to all of those in NO.
To explain it would be a complete waste of time and energy. If you think bowling centers are making hoards of money, you are even more childish than I originally thought of MOST not all of the ballreviews nation. Being in the bowling business in the finance portion of the operation, I can tell you we are not getting rich on bowling.
Post by: kidlost2000 on May 12, 2011, 09:34:22 AM
I will admit that bowling more then one league can get expensive for a year. Some leagues have high cost due to wanting more money going into the prize fund which is fine, but can add up if your in multiple leagues. Most of the leagues in one house are $16 with $7-8 going to lineage.
I'm not sure about else where but I remember at one time when I was a kid going to the bowling alley you had a ton of teams with team shirts sponsored by businesses.(mid to late 80s) Many of the bowlers worked for that business as well. Now days when I go to the bowling ally I see only one or two at most that are business related and they are older people.
I think a good way for any center to get more bowlers would be trying to promote to businesses(car dealerships, restaurants ect) to some friendly competition in a league. I think if you went with a shorter 10 to 16 week format for such leagues you could really grow some new bowlers and even new rivalries. Even if the league never went past the 10-16 week period it would create some great additional income for the center. From bowling, to food, to the proshop. Would also work with college age students and other younger people. Kickball leagues are something that have gotten popular here and I think bowling if in a shorter format could cater to those same people. Many of these teams would probably be more interested in trophies then money prizes which would cut cost down to $10 or less for the bowling, and lend more money to be made on food and beer sales.
Just a thought.
Be good, or be good at it.
Post by: TWOHAND834 on May 12, 2011, 09:47:13 AM
Just because the cost is going up doesnt necessarily mean you have to spend it. I am seeing that the size of the money leagues are getting lower but some of the more fun mixed leagues are growing. Bowlers dont want to give up the sport, just find a cheaper way of doing it. I may buy 1 new ball each year if I feel I need it. In most cases, the stuff I used several years ago is the same stuff I am using now.
What's killing bowling???? Same thing that is killing our nation. Our government. If the economy was better, people may be able to afford bowling more than they do. Due to the bad economy and rising gas prices, people have to cut back. My costs this year:
League was $25/night x 36 weeks = $900
Bought 1 ball = $85.00 (Test staff with Visionary and I drill my own stuff)
Gas = $0.00 (Center is only a couple miles from the office so I dont factor in extra distance)
Practice = $0.00 (Rarely practice and had free game passes when I did)
Practice = $0.00 (Rarely practice and had free game passes when I did)
Beverage = $0.00 (Center always had a bucket of ice water and cheap plastic cups handy)
Overall cost was about $1,000 and got back $1700+
PROFIT = $700
Peace doesnt always have to be silent.
Post by: 9andaWiggle on May 12, 2011, 01:05:14 PM
Priced out of the middle class? No, I don't think so. A recreational bowler, or even a good kinda serious bowler can buy one or two balls, shoes, and a bag and use them for several years without issue. The league cost, food, and beverage aren't too bad (you can always eat before you bowl and just buy a drink at the lanes if you need to cut back). For the middle class, I don't think finding an extra $80 - $100 a month is the issue. There has been a massive social change, and that is what has been hurting bowling for a while now. People have more options, more to do, for the same or similar money. People no longer wish to gather with the same people (if they like to gather at all) and do the same thing week after week. That change in social behavior is what has hurt bowling the most.
Now, pricing out the lower, or lower end of middle class is a possibility. In smaller areas like where I grew up, the threat of job losses and the cost of food/energy skyrocketing while the wages stay stagnant puts a hurting on them and the bowling alleys that rely on them to stay open. When you've got $100 left and payday is a week away, the kids need food, your car needs gas to get you to work, and the electric bill is past due, bowling is the last thing you'll be spending any of that $100 on.
9~ Internet Tough Guy and
Cyberspace Sheep Lover
Post by: Good Times Good Times on May 12, 2011, 01:20:50 PM
Joe I think this game just may be too expensive for you in general.. You worry about 10 bucks so.....it may be quite high in your book as a "sport" in general....
Am I being unfair?
GetOffMe10Pin
Post by: clint191 on May 12, 2011, 01:39:20 PM
Just thinking about it again, the costs of bowling aren't that much more expensive than when I first started around 8-9 yrs ago. Facts are that the cost of living are up and many people are still working for the same or less pay (if they're even working at all)
Many families have had to cutback on luxuries or recreational activities. I used to make every Georgia football game home and away. That no longer happens! Golf also went from playing once-twice a wk to maybe twice a yr. There's still some other things that could be cut if the need arises but.....
I enjoy bowling and will try and continue to bowl a couple nights a week as long as I can afford to do so. I think of it as time to be w/ my friends, time to get out of the house, while at the same time a competitive activity that you don't always get to do as you get older.
There's always cheaper alternatives that allow us to continue to bowl as some of you guys have mentioned. You certainly don't always have to buy the high performance balls, bowl the "money" leagues, and you certainly don't have to always eat/drink at the center if the cost becomes to expensive. Our local center is only 3-4 miles from my house, but I still bowl a league that's 30-40 minutes away. Carpooling is a wonderful thing and no one on my team has to drive more than once every 3-4 weeks.
If the person really enjoys bowling, he/she will find a way!!!
Post by: Sunshine n Lollipops on May 12, 2011, 02:19:41 PM
Don't any of you win any pots? I finished $800 in the black this year. Not bad. Had a great time and made money. Here's what I don't get about topics like this. Who is the "middle class" and who are we to decide if it's too expensive for an entire economic class? Everybody has a cost to value line in their mind. The line gets crossed, some people quit. I know other people that won't quit no matter what. That's up to them.
Don't believe in the Uzi, it just went off in my hand. I, I believe in love.
Post by: batbowler on May 23, 2011, 05:55:44 PM
Well when I started driving the cost of gas was $.25 a gallon, so I could fill up the tank for $5.00 and that was a 20 gallon tank. I would go to the movies for $.50 and with popcorn and drink I'd pay about $3.00. So I guess if you figure gas prices now and movie prices now that it's all went up a bunch!!!! Just my $.02, Bruce
"Train a child up in the way they should go and when they are old they will "Bowl up a STORM", be MOTIVated to be "King OF THEM ALL" and not turn from it, besides bowling starts with a Big B!
Bruce Campbell
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IBPSIA Certified Technician
Originator of the -35deg x 25 leverage drilling!
http://stormbowling.com/products/balls
http://www.rotogrip.com/products/balls/
http://visionarybowling.com/
USBC Bronze Certified Coach
IBPSIA Certified Technician
Originator of the -35deg x 25 leverage drilling!
http://stormbowling.com/products/balls
http://www.rotogrip.com/products/balls/
http://visionarybowling.com/
Post by: usfan51473 on May 23, 2011, 09:51:19 PM
The prices are higher these days than in years before...but so is everything else. I learned a long time ago bowling is not going to put food on my table and clothes on my back. Those who think they do it for the money are only fooling themselves. I bowl one night a week in a mixed leauge. Cost-- $15 per week. Sure the return at the end of the season is not there like money leauges, but I think I have more fun bowling in this type of environment than in a high competition leauge. I also bowl a summer ball leauge where you get your choice of any ball you want. That's how I afford a new ball every year. Cost-- $18-24 per week depending on what ball you want. Gas...we are going to go out and do stuff anyway. I'm not gonna sit home and cry about prices I have no control over. I generally bowl one big tourney a year and then some smaller house types occasionally. You only live once...might as well enjoy the ride!!!!
Post by: txbowler on May 24, 2011, 08:15:00 AM
I had this discussion with my co-workers a while back. They were wondering why I spent so much on bowling? Then we started talking about their discretionary spending...
One guy spends over a $1000 a year in hunting.
One lady buys over $2000 a year in designer handbags and shoes.
Another guy had recently bought his third pair of $350 designer sunglasses.
And finally one guy had just bought a brand new $400 fishing rod & reel.
And my final question to them was, out of all these expenditures, does any of them have any potential to earn you a dime of money? Of course not. Mine does. But for all of us, these expenditures bring us some form of satisfaction or happiness.
Post by: JOE FALCO on May 24, 2011, 11:46:15 AM
I've heard this term used by a few on here .. MONEY BOWLERS .. would anyone venture a guess at what percentage of MONEY BOWLERS there are in their own house .. or perhaps .. what percentage of CUSTOMERS a Pro Shop might have that are MONEY BOWLERS? (My definition of MONEY BOWLER: A bowler who's only purpose is to MAKE MONEY).
ALSO SPRACH .. if you think I am not continuing your topic .. please advise and I will delete my comment!
Post by: JessN16 on May 24, 2011, 09:09:18 PM
There are two excellent posts on the first page about the effects of inflation on the general cost of ALL goods and services, and if anyone else posts in this thread without reading those two posts, you're just wasting our time.
The average rate of inflation is around 3-4 percent, annually. An inflation rate of 3.5 percent doubles the cost of goods/services every 20 years. Speak to your local financial advisor (or just look it up yourself) and you'll see it spelled out.
In other words, if it cost you $10 a week to bowl in 1991 and it's costing you $20 a week to bowl now, it's costing you the same now as it did then, adjusted for inflation.
Jess
Post by: tburky on May 25, 2011, 03:07:29 AM
The difference between now and then is the fact that wages have not kept up for a lot of the people.
Post by: JessN16 on May 25, 2011, 10:24:42 PM
'Tis true. But even so, the bowling center's bills are doubling and they can't be expected to eat the cost differential alone. There seems to be an attitude among many that the bowling centers keep raising their prices indiscriminately and their owners are rolling in dough. I don't believe that's the case.
Jess
Post by: rvmark on May 26, 2011, 12:51:17 PM
To answer the question IMO no bowling has not priced itself out of contention. It is up to each individual how many balls they buy. It is up to each individual how much they spend on food and beverages. The different leagues I bowl in run from $12-$18 per week for the lineage plus prize fund and secretary fees. We normally eat after bowling and catch the 2 for 1 special so the food does not cost and since I can't drink beer while on medication my beverage cost is minimal.
Mark
Post by: r534me on May 26, 2011, 03:48:35 PM
Good post. I found a calculator and I have not verified it by hand but it claims to use the cpi up until 2010.
http://www.westegg.com/inflation/
If the calculator is correct, $11.00 in 1991 will cost someone $17.38 in 2010. Adjusting for 3.5% for 2010-2011 should yield a very small increase to the $17.38 number.
Post by: r534me on May 26, 2011, 03:53:35 PM
Absolutely true. With the U.S. being more of a service oriented economy now it's likely going to get worse before it gets better.
Post by: Smash49 on May 30, 2011, 10:35:35 AM
It is very expensive to operate a bowling center. The cost are enormous.
24 lane center electric bill: $4800 a month.
24 lanes new synthetic lanes: $150,000
24 lanes new scoring: $150,000
Kegel lane machine nothing fancy: $15,000
Don't for get the supplies
Labor
new pins $150 a box X 2 per machine X 24 + 4 extra just to replace old stuff.
Average league 88 bowlers at $10 a night lineage = $880 if you are lucky that may happen 3 times a week.
Almost no rental shoes :(
$2700 a week. multiply this by 42 weeks = $113,400 figure summer is dead.
Now go back to just the electric bill at $4800 a month. Be conservative and call it $4000 a month times 52. You will be open 52 weeks a year! Cost = $208,000 so you spend almost double your major league lineage intake to just turn on the lights!
So bowling its self has not priced itself out of the market.
Smash49
Slick, tacky, wood or synthetic it does not matter your slide is correct with SLSM Designs Bowlers Slide Sock. The Finest Slide Sock on the Planet!!!
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Post by: JessN16 on May 30, 2011, 11:47:24 PM
That calculator may already be compounding, but if it isn't, don't forget to manually do it.
When you compound $1 at 7 percent annually, in 10 years you have $1.97, for instance. At 20 years and (I believe) it's around $3.85. I'm guessing at the latter number because I don't have a calc in front of me.
If you divide that number in half it should come in roughly at $1.90 over the 20 years. Inflation doesn't always move up at a level 3.5 percent, though.
Jess
Post by: r534me on May 31, 2011, 01:54:13 AM
Post by: JessN16 on May 31, 2011, 09:57:39 PM
Before we bore everyone else in the thread to death -- yes, you did it correctly. :) And they probably are using real numbers, which if they included 2008 would include basically a completely flat year.
Jess
Post by: 9andaWiggle on June 01, 2011, 07:31:08 AM
Your point is right on. Bowling alleys are massive, usually not well insulated buildings and it costs a lot to run AC in summer and Heat in winter. I've never seen any that had windows adequate for ventilation, so you're running one or the other every day the place is open. Then there is the huge lighting requirement, and if memory serves me pinsetters run off of 220V electric feed. Toss in water for the toilet flushings/hand washings, insurance to cover any accidental injury, and taxes on the building/equipment. That's a ton of money and we haven't even touched any payments on everything inside the building. Nor are we including labor for the help. It's a very expensive, tough business, especially when half your clientele thinks all you do is open the doors and rake in the money.
9~ Internet Tough Guy and
Cyberspace Sheep Lover
Post by: Smash49 on June 01, 2011, 08:05:34 AM
I'm not the accountant! But still the cost are out and out crazy. People wonder why you can't give them a dollar a game anymore. That is way below the cost of the game.
I remember buy new bowling balls for $25 including drilling. Even with balls being made in China which I think is a bad thing you can't make them for that.
Here is what really stings. Husband and wife bowl a mixed league. Cost $18 a night plus $20 sanction. Within the first month of bowling they normally have to cough up $256 and that does not include any drinks or food. 4 weeks of bowling each and 2 weeks each for last two weeks. Then they have the sanction fees. if it is a 5 week month tack another $36 on top of that..
At nearly $300 for that month in just bowling that is equal to a lawn mower or a TV set or a dryer.
At the same time this is going on school is starting. Hope you don't have kids! And just when things are getting better Christmas is around the corner.
I can watch just about every new movie that hits netflix still have my new lawn mower and cloth my kids for school if I give up bowling!
Sad but true
Smash49
Slick, tacky, wood or synthetic it does not matter your slide is correct with SLSM Designs Bowlers Slide Sock. The Finest Slide Sock on the Planet!!!
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Post by: JOE FALCO on June 01, 2011, 10:15:15 AM
I don't feel that owners of Centers are making PLENTY of money but I think the income talked about is a little short. Most Centers run two sessions of leagues (6:30 and 9:30) and occasionally most have Senior leagues in afternoons. Then there is the bar and food concession that also brings in money. They are not getting rich but I doubt if the most are starving!
Post by: Smash49 on June 01, 2011, 01:09:03 PM
True there are some centers that do run double shifts. The center I owned actually had 3 good nights with 16 out of 24 lanes going with league but it was single shifts. We did have 2 days with seniors but that is a reduced lineage league. Fridays and Saturdays we had good evening business until the economy went in the hamper. Our game room on the weekends made as much money as the leagues did. Hard to believe but our jukebox made more money than a league. My suggestion is to anyone: If you think you can run a bowling center go for it. You will learn a lot in a big hurry. Been there done that have the t-shirt.
Smash49
Slick, tacky, wood or synthetic it does not matter your slide is correct with SLSM Designs Bowlers Slide Sock. The Finest Slide Sock on the Planet!!!
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Post by: JustRico on June 01, 2011, 02:18:07 PM
Come to Cali...a second shift league is 7pm....no such thing as a 9 or 930 league anymore.
If you think bowling has priced itself out....look at golf. You basically can't win money at golf similar to bowling...golf is finally starting to show a decline after about 10+ years of growth. Everything is on a decline...
The views and opinions expressed by myself are solely those of mine and NO one else, nor are they affiliated with anyone else.
Post by: Smash49 on June 01, 2011, 05:38:32 PM
At one time I played golf twice a week. After many years I played a round and the cost was crazy. The place we played was cheap by most standards. Even once a month hurts the pocket book.
Smash49
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Post by: Juggernaut on June 01, 2011, 05:47:26 PM
I don't think it has yet, but the cost of bowling is a cumulative thing. The cost of electricity goes up, bowling goes up. The cost of supplies goes up, bowling goes up. The cost of having your needs delivered to your business goes up, your prices go up. It is just economics 101.
If everything you do goes up just .05, it doesn't sound like much, but what if you do 1000 things a day? That's going to be an increase of $50 in your expenses. Multiply that by 7 days a week, and your expenses just went up $350 a week.
You say that nobody does 1000 things a day? What about the 250 hamburger patties that they had to buy? Then add in the 250 buns for those burgers. And what about the veggies, cheese, and condiments? That would almost cover the 1000 things, and that's just the snackbar stuff.
With the price of OIL rising as fast as it does, it may not be long before bowling gets to the breaking point.
Post by: JessN16 on June 01, 2011, 08:28:00 PM
Couple of things, Joe...
1) "Most centers" do not run two shifts. We have one house here that runs a second shift in the summer (out of four houses), and the second shift is a grand total of 6 teams. A different house runs a second shift in the fall and they get about 12 teams. The last time I saw a majority of houses running second shifts was back in the early 90s before manufacturing jobs had really started to leave for overseas. If the majority of the centers in your area are running multiple shifts, you're in the minority.
2) If a bowling alley is making "plenty of money," more power to them. If it were my business, I'd take care of my league bowlers but I would also try to make as much money as I could to give my family the best future they could have, take care of my employees and retire with a big 401(k) balance. They're not running a charity, after all. Ever since the 2008 market crash, it seems the more I hear people speaking ill of banks, bowling alleys, stores, etc., that are successful.
Jess
Post by: r534me on June 01, 2011, 11:40:24 PM
Post by: JOE FALCO on June 02, 2011, 04:51:07 AM
So deeply do we cherish our own opinions, convictions, prejudices that we tend to identify these with truth. If I really, really believe my opinions is the truth, that makes it so.
Post by: Smash49 on June 02, 2011, 05:51:00 AM
Jess
Your area of the country must be doing well. There are a couple centers in the Dallas area running 2 shifts a night but that is not the norm. Many are running 1 shift and even that shift is not full. I know of some centers that do not open until 5PM. In fact there are some centers in the country that close all summer.
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Post by: storm making it rain on June 02, 2011, 06:57:04 AM
It's always funny how people like JOE FALCO make assumptions on all of these proprietors rolling in the dough from owning the bowling center. All I can say is look at your personal bills and the amount things in general have risen in price. Now think of that from a much larger scale. I don't know about everyone else's centers in this discussion but my family comes to work almost everyday of the week at our center, and we have a full staff around us. Our job is to make sure we're getting people in the door and the staff's job is to ensure our customers are being treated at the highest level to assure retention.
It used to be you could just open the doors and fill the house with leagues (guaranteed money each week) now with leagues declining we have to push for other programs to just pay our bills. People are spending their money very differently now a days, not just here but everywhere. If centers want to stay at the top of their game they have to remodel every few years and add or maintain things every year. Do you have any idea what it cost for new lanes, new scoring, new pins, etc. No JOE FALCO you probably don't.
Post by: Russell on June 02, 2011, 09:51:29 AM
I'm glad that bowling is thriving there...most houses here in Atlanta don't have much league at 6pm each night...and almost no 9pm leagues. The Senior leagues might be one day a week and 10 lanes or so.
Bowling is dying...balls are the culprit...they are expensive and disposable. The days of someone buying a ball once every 5 years and loving it are done. Now you need 3 balls that have to be replaced every 150 games just to bowl league.
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Post by: TheFreeAgent on June 02, 2011, 10:28:43 AM
To answer the question asked. I have two answers
League bowling No
Open bowling Yes
In my area leagues are doing really well. But open play is expensive 4.05-4.15 a game plus 3.00 for rental shoes. You figure the average family of Mom Dad Billy and Susie come in and each bowl 2 games get shoes and food from the snack bar they are looking at 50 dollars if not more (large drink here is 3.11 no free refills and average mean is 7.99 roughly.)
But leagues in the summer for every league game you bowl you receive 1 free game of open bowling and you can use them with any person as long as you are present.
Winter leagues they have VIP cards which gives 60% off and more as you build points.
As far as the "bowling balls being the culprit" comment I respectively disagree. No one forces you to buy new balls. You can get a solid 3 ball arsenal and have it last for years and years. People just choose to buy the latest and greats because they think it makes them a better bowler.
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Post by: storm making it rain on June 02, 2011, 11:10:28 AM
I'd have to agree that bowling balls aren't the death of bowling for the traditional bowler. I have customers that have been using the same ball forever with no problems. Now they can't take their game to another level, but that has more to do with having time to put into the game than bowling balls.
I also think people are bowling fewer leagues. The guys/gals that used to bowl 3-4 night a week are down to 1-2 nights because they don't have the ancillary income to spend on it with the cost of everything.
As far as open play prices go, I would hope your centers are offering package deals out there. Our most popular package averages out to about $8 per person, which includes bowling, shoes, food, & drink. Compare that to the movies or any other venue and it's pretty well below what you spend there.
Just my 2 cents
Post by: JOE FALCO on June 02, 2011, 12:28:14 PM
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Post by: r534me on June 02, 2011, 04:18:16 PM
There are two centers in S.F. and they are both small and the lanes poorly maintained. They charge a lot, $6.75 a game and cater to the after work or pre club patrons who drink a lot and use house balls and shoes. They may have leagues but I don't actually know anyone who bowls at either location. If they were go out of business, the league bowler would not know or really care. And the center operators feel the same way about league bowlers.
Balls don't seem to be causing bowling to die off. I pulled out an old shift that carries almost as well as the newer balls, and I bought a old blue hammer and plugged it up and redrilled it and if I play the dry boards it still hits well and provides competitive scores.. I should add that I have about 20 others balls and the latest ones are the Eagle and the Track 715T. I usually only take them to tournaments. I will agree that in certain houses certain brands of balls do work better than others because of their rolling characteristics and if one goes to a lot of different houses the person could be forced to build an arsenal to compete at a high level.
Edited by r534me on 6/2/2011 at 4:26 PM
Edited by r534me on 6/2/2011 at 4:38 PM
Post by: milorafferty on June 02, 2011, 04:24:53 PM
One of those wouldn't be Brentwood would they? LOL
Brentwood has a few leagues, but with only 16 lanes they can't have many. Besides, who can bowl that close to the wall. 
In some places the ball return is in the way if you have to move very much left or right, but I have never seen a lane with the wall as the outside edge of the gutter like Brentwood.
In some places the ball return is in the way if you have to move very much left or right, but I have never seen a lane with the wall as the outside edge of the gutter like Brentwood.Post by: r534me on June 02, 2011, 04:33:27 PM
haha, you're close but the centers are in SF not SSF. :) Isn't Landpark in SAC like that? You can get pretty close to the edge there. And they have the 80's scorers.
Brentwood charges $6.75 at night but you can bowl a buck a game on Mondays from 9-5PM.
Edited by r534me on 6/2/2011 at 4:39 PM
Post by: milorafferty on June 02, 2011, 04:40:14 PM
Yea, Landpark is somewhat that way. The wall is kinda close on the right side, but not like Brentwood.
I guess Yerba Buena doesn't have leagues do they? Isn't that the one with the skating ring in the same building?
BTW, the Sosa tournament is at Boardwalk bowl Santa Cruz this weekend, heading there Saturday for the afternoon squad.
Post by: r534me on June 02, 2011, 05:21:00 PM
One of my friends is going there too. I think on Saturday. I should go but I didn't plan on it. YB may have leagues. Its really out of the way.
Classic has the senate doubles next week. Payoff is 1k for $60 entry.
Post by: JessN16 on June 03, 2011, 07:35:07 PM
Joe,
I'm not even sure this was a response to my post, and if it was, I must have missed what you were trying to say.
If you're saying that my post was all opinion, it's not opinion that my area is not running double shifts and/or is not consistently full. I can readily prove that with copies of the league sheets.
My second point, though, was opinion about people having the right to make a good living and try to set up future generations, and I stand by it. The great thing about supply and demand is that if you overprice something, eventually it will all work itself out because people will stop buying it.
Jess
Post by: DON DRAPER on June 03, 2011, 08:18:24 PM
The cost of bowling and bowling related items have gone up but so has everything else. The economy is still not doing all that well and many people are having to pinch their pennies any way they can. However, for those that have "X" amount of money to spend on recreation/leisure time pursuits it also has to do with priorities sometimes.
Every year I hear people complain at league meetings about the lineage or the weekly fee going up, etc. There was one guy who heard that the weekly fee for his league was going from $12 to $13......he almost had a coronary. Yet, this same guy has a brand new $38,000 pickup in the parking lot, spends $100 every Saturday night at the casino, and spends probably $50 every week on beer and cigarettes. As I said a lot of times it's about priorities.
Edited by LBHS1979 on 6/3/2011 at 8:20 PM