Post by: FastTracker33 on April 09, 2008, 12:30:55 PM
Well, it seems to me, I can't find anything to match up with. Whether it's me bowling bad, the conditions aren't consistant, or whatever, I just can't match up with any ball. Whenever I do bowl good, it's only with one ball I have - AMF Orbit Extreme Solid. Here's what i'm thinking - I have balls drilled pin over fingers, and pin under fingers; none of these balls are working for me. The pin over fingers balls are too over/under (Columbia Action, Track Power Machine, Track Equation2, Track Strike Machine), and the balls drilled with pin under fingers are too strong (I only have one, and that's my Track Arsenal Artillery). My Orbit Extreme is drilled like this -
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c288/TheOne9110/100_0972.jpg
ON EDIT: btw, that was a pic of the Orbit before it was Sarge Eastered. (Currently my grip I use)
That ball does have the pin ABOVE the fingers, but when I was talking before about balls having the pins above the fingers and giving me problems, those balls have either pin over ring, or bridge. Those are the balls that are highly over under. But, with this layout on the Orbit, I feel SO comfortable throwing it. It's the only ball I have used the past 3-4 months. Why is that? I can't match up with ANYTHING anymore, and it's really bringing me down. I don't know what it is. It can't be the conditions I bowl on. I've seen others have high success with higher performing balls at this house, but I can only get my Orbit to work! It's bothering me real bad. Does my style only match up to balls like the Orbit? Am I only good throwing lower performing balls? What is it? Can anyone give me some helpful advice on this? I really would love some help, and would highly appreciate it!!
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-Brian
http://BeansProShop.com
Home of the Secret Sauce!
Edited on 4/9/2008 8:31 PM
Post by: Dan Belcher on April 09, 2008, 08:37:44 PM
Post by: Atochabsh on April 10, 2008, 01:38:17 AM
And from your post, I would say that you are a bit preoccupied with other people's scores more then your own. This is not unexpected at your age. But something to consider and learn from.
You are also probably pressing yourself too much to stay at the higher level. That will always bring you down. These days its fairly easy to get to 200, not that easy to stay there. And again, at your age, its to be expected. You simply need more experience, try to take the lows in stride along with the highs. If you have not seen many highs lately.......they are coming. The Bowling Gods always balance the scales.
Most of the stuff you mention you have drilled up are pretty old now. So they probably need to be touched up on their surface condition. Therefore you are going to have to put some $s into keeping your equipment in proper condition. Also you are growing at your age, so your grip may need to be adjusted. This is all part of the game. Having your equipment in the best available condition, and it doesn't come for free. In our shop its not terribly expensive, but most at the higher level have figured out that if they maintain their equipment with the pro shop at monthly or bi monthly intervals they will bowl better.
This is all stuff that you need to get "on your side" in order to maintain a high level of bowling. Your equipment; shoes and balls especially, need to be in tip top condition. Those are things well within your control. So keep up on it. Lane conditions are not in your control. So the only advantage available to you is experience (which you don't have a ton of yet) and equipment maintenance. So do not let up on keeping your equipment in tip top condition. And this costs money. Which your folks may or maynot be willing to pay given your past and current dedication to the sport. Do not bother to ask how to do all this by yourself, at home, for free. It cannot be done at your level of age and experience to the benefit of the level of play you want. So you need to get your folks on your side in order to be willing to spend money on your equipment and tournaments. What that takes.....is up to you.
Erin
Post by: FastTracker33 on April 10, 2008, 06:14:28 AM
I'm gonna try to respond to both as much as I can.
So here goes.. Well, my Orbit Extreme Solid actually doesn't give me a lot of room at all. Sure I can play like.. 3 different lines. I can go basically straight, I can do a little swing, or I can do a little bigger swing. But I cannot open up the entire lane with the ball. It really doesn't move much at all. It's a very consistant reaction on the lanes I bowl on, and that's why I love it. The lanes I bowl on have very INCONSISTANT lane conditions. Anyone who's bowled there over the years knows exactly what i'm talking about. That's why I love the predictability of the Orbit Extreme Solid. Now when I go to other equipment, it's a whole other story. They're unpredicable, and give me a much uglier look on the lane.
The other thing talked about was my age/skill level. Yes, I know i'm young, and yes, I know I only finished this season with a 200 average. I really only had about 3 bad sets all season that kept me from around 205. Other than that, I felt real good. The thing is, before this, I HAVE been able to use different balls. I used to be able to use my Track Solution PPEX, Columbia Action Packed, and Hammer Switch Blade. They all used to work wonders! That was back when I used to throw 15lbs, and finger tipped rather than throwing 14lbs now, and sarge easter grip.
I don't really pay attention to how others are scoring, I just pay attention to how their ball rolls, and why I am not able to throw anything but one ball.
I, myself, have a good amount of money saved up right now, and i'll be getting another paycheck soon, but I don't know any coaches in this area; that's what sucks for me. I can get equipment, but anymore, i'm afraid to! Nothing ever works but the low-end stuff. Is that a bad thing? Not really, but I wish I can get other stuff to work.
Speaking of span changes.. Next time I go get something drilled.. I'm gonna have my proshop guy, Chris, check my Orbit Extreme Solid. I'm gonna have him take the pitches, span, and all off the Orbit so that I have that same perfect feel that that ball has. Maybe i'm having a hard time with my span and feel of the ball. I know I do have that problem with most of my equipment. I'm not 100% sure if this could be my whole problem, but i'm sure it would help a real lot! The Orbit comes off my hand so clean compared to most of my other stuff.
That is all.
Any more comments are really appreciated!!
--------------------
-Brian
http://BeansProShop.com
Home of the Secret Sauce!
Post by: Dan Belcher on April 10, 2008, 07:23:06 AM
quote:So this pretty much confirms the issue is your inconsistency. A weaker ball gives you much more room to miss and not have it overreact.
Thank you for the 2 comments so far on this topic!
I'm gonna try to respond to both as much as I can.
So here goes.. Well, my Orbit Extreme Solid actually doesn't give me a lot of room at all. Sure I can play like.. 3 different lines. I can go basically straight, I can do a little swing, or I can do a little bigger swing. But I cannot open up the entire lane with the ball. It really doesn't move much at all. It's a very consistant reaction on the lanes I bowl on, and that's why I love it. The lanes I bowl on have very INCONSISTANT lane conditions. Anyone who's bowled there over the years knows exactly what i'm talking about. That's why I love the predictability of the Orbit Extreme Solid. Now when I go to other equipment, it's a whole other story. They're unpredicable, and give me a much uglier look on the lane.
quote:Now, my question is if you had success before, why did you change? You were throwing 15lb equipment with a standard fingertip drill and doing well, so you change everything up and go with lighter equipment and the Sarge Easter grip. Why? (Also, don't take this the wrong way, but averaging 200 on a house shot doesn't necessarily mean your physical game is very solid. It just means you make your spares fairly well and get a double or three bagger every once in awhile)
The other thing talked about was my age/skill level. Yes, I know i'm young, and yes, I know I only finished this season with a 200 average. I really only had about 3 bad sets all season that kept me from around 205. Other than that, I felt real good. The thing is, before this, I HAVE been able to use different balls. I used to be able to use my Track Solution PPEX, Columbia Action Packed, and Hammer Switch Blade. They all used to work wonders! That was back when I used to throw 15lbs, and finger tipped rather than throwing 14lbs now, and sarge easter grip.
quote:Go to www.bowl.com and search for a USBC-certified coach. There should be a few available in your state, or hopefully even in your city.
I, myself, have a good amount of money saved up right now, and i'll be getting another paycheck soon, but I don't know any coaches in this area; that's what sucks for me. I can get equipment, but anymore, i'm afraid to! Nothing ever works but the low-end stuff. Is that a bad thing? Not really, but I wish I can get other stuff to work.
Also, can you get us video of you bowling? That would be a good start.
quote:That also does make a difference. I have trouble switching back and forth between equipment if they don't feel almost identical.
Speaking of span changes.. Next time I go get something drilled.. I'm gonna have my proshop guy, Chris, check my Orbit Extreme Solid. I'm gonna have him take the pitches, span, and all off the Orbit so that I have that same perfect feel that that ball has. Maybe i'm having a hard time with my span and feel of the ball. I know I do have that problem with most of my equipment. I'm not 100% sure if this could be my whole problem, but i'm sure it would help a real lot! The Orbit comes off my hand so clean compared to most of my other stuff.
Post by: chitown on April 10, 2008, 08:53:07 AM
Every bowler has a particular pin location that's their favorite. That particular pin location gives them a reaction that's easy for them to read. It's that simple. I personally feel it has more to do with flare seperation and reaction shape from a particular pin location.
The pin position on your Orbit Xtreme gives you the most controllable reaction shape for your eye's!
I bet if you used that pin location on all your other equipment you would like the reactions better. Keep in mind that not all bowling balls will match up with you no matter what layout you use.
WRW has said many times that he likes to place the pin in the 1 or 2 O'Clock position. Those pin locations for him seem to work the best!
Each bowler has a certain reaction shape that's easy for them to control and read. For you it's the pin location that's on your Orbit Xtreme.
Just use that single pin location on 95 percent of your equipment and you will be good to go! Just let the different covers and cores seperate the reactions.
Edited on 4/10/2008 8:56 AM
Post by: gojr1815 on April 10, 2008, 09:14:31 AM
--------------------
Why Jr Why
Post by: Atochabsh on April 10, 2008, 10:12:41 AM
Seems to me that when you did that, your game fell apart rather then getting better.
Erin
Post by: Mark T. Trgovac on April 10, 2008, 10:33:56 AM
quote:
Why did you drop weight and go to a sarge easter grip?
Seems to me that when you did that, your game fell apart rather then getting better.
Erin
If I remember right Brian went to 14 because his arm couldnt handle the 15lb ball for an extended period of time. He would be able to bowl with them for a while but then he would start to get pain. That is why I remember him dropping to 14lb. I am not sure about the SE grip as to why he switched.
--------------------
Mark "scoot" Trgovac
C-G Pro Shop
Offical "Spokesman"
Youngstown, Ohio
Finishing THS book ave: 200
Finishing PBA Experence ave: 176
Finishing Composit ave: 194
Track HITMAN.
Tag Team Coaching Success Story.
When faced with a problem Chuck Norris asks himself, "What would The Scoot DO?"
Post by: Dan Belcher on April 10, 2008, 10:40:11 AM
quote:Was this just because he's young and still not strong enough for 15lb, or because of an injury, or possibly because of a poor fit?quote:
Why did you drop weight and go to a sarge easter grip?
Seems to me that when you did that, your game fell apart rather then getting better.
Erin
If I remember right Brian went to 14 because his arm couldnt handle the 15lb ball for an extended period of time. He would be able to bowl with them for a while but then he would start to get pain. That is why I remember him dropping to 14lb. I am not sure about the SE grip as to why he switched.
Post by: Mark T. Trgovac on April 10, 2008, 10:43:49 AM
quote:quote:Was this just because he's young and still not strong enough for 15lb, or because of an injury, or possibly because of a poor fit?quote:
Why did you drop weight and go to a sarge easter grip?
Seems to me that when you did that, your game fell apart rather then getting better.
Erin
If I remember right Brian went to 14 because his arm couldnt handle the 15lb ball for an extended period of time. He would be able to bowl with them for a while but then he would start to get pain. That is why I remember him dropping to 14lb. I am not sure about the SE grip as to why he switched.
I am not to sure, I am going by what he told me at one time. He liked his 15lb stuff but it started to hurt his arm so he switched to 14lb. Thats all I know, however when he gets home from school or a free period in school I am sure he will check this and inform us better. I would remember it better but it was over a year ago and I had so much going on in the last year I cant remember what I ate for dinner 3 nights ago.
--------------------
Mark "scoot" Trgovac
C-G Pro Shop
Offical "Spokesman"
Youngstown, Ohio
Finishing THS book ave: 200
Finishing PBA Experence ave: 176
Finishing Composit ave: 194
Track HITMAN.
Tag Team Coaching Success Story.
When faced with a problem Chuck Norris asks himself, "What would The Scoot DO?"
Post by: 9andaWiggle on April 10, 2008, 11:10:43 AM
The last thing I thought of, and this is something I struggle with... Are you "hitting up" on the ball at release? I picked that habit up in the urethane era, and if you're doing this it can create wicked over-under and unpredictability on the lane.
Best idea was to find a coach and have them watch and see the things you're doing that you can't see/feel for yourself. Good luck!
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9~
It's a Sheep thing... You wouldn't understand!
Post by: qstick777 on April 10, 2008, 02:55:16 PM
Have you tried playing with the covers of the other balls?
There isn't anything wrong with entry or mid level equipment. Use what works! The Orbit Xtreme is a great ball - forget the cost.
I tend to agree with chitown - some pin positions (distance to PAP and distance above midline) work better for some people. If that works for you, use it and let the coverstock and other characteristics of the balls differentiate when you use them.
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Post by: FastTracker33 on April 10, 2008, 03:16:16 PM
Again, i'm gonna try my best to answer everyone!
To begin, I wanna get this out of the way... I was basically forced into 14lb bowling balls and Sarge Easter grip for 2 reasons. Number one, my weak wrist. I have ugly tendonitis in my wrist that sure doesn't help out when I bowl. I actually got a 15lb ball pretty cheap from a user here, tried it yesterday, and same thing, my wrist is hurting a little bit today! It really sucks. But, number 2, I switched to Sarge Easter grip because I have a sharp pain in the top knuckle of my ring finger, so I switched to the Sarge grip to not use that part of my finger anymore. With 15lbs, and finger tipped grips, I was only able to last about 1 1/2 games.. Literally.
chitown, I am DEFINITELY keeping that pin placement theory in mind. My next ball I drill, the AMF Code, is getting drilled just like my Orbit for sure! Thanks for that help!
I am going to see what I can do about a coach, and check out bowl.com!
Next time I see Chris, i'll have him make a direct copy of the Orbit Extreme, and put it on my AMF Code. We'll see how that goes.. I probably won't be drilling that til June/July, though.. But i'm definitely going to report back on my findings!
Who knows, though. I might be going through some sort of growing process like 9 said! It has happened before, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's happening again. No lie, my Hammer Switch Blade, back when I was about 10 or 11, got thumb plugged and redrilled 3 times within 2 months. Sad, right? Lol.
Scoot, thanks for helping out while I was go. You were basically right except it wasn't my arm holding me back from 15lbs, it was my wrist.
Thank you, everyone!
--------------------
-Brian
http://BeansProShop.com
Home of the Secret Sauce!
Post by: Dan Belcher on April 10, 2008, 03:23:07 PM
Post by: FastTracker33 on April 10, 2008, 03:31:12 PM
quote:
I know there's a lot of people on here who hate wrist braces, but have you tried one to see if it helps the pain in your wrist? It will take some of the pressure off it.
I wore a wrist support yesterday throwing the 15lber, and it still hurt it. I still have to wear a wrist support throwing 14lbs as well.
--------------------
-Brian
http://BeansProShop.com
Home of the Secret Sauce!
Post by: Mark T. Trgovac on April 10, 2008, 04:04:16 PM
--------------------
Mark "scoot" Trgovac
C-G Pro Shop
Offical "Spokesman"
Youngstown, Ohio
Finishing THS book ave: 200
Finishing PBA Experence ave: 176
Finishing Composit ave: 194
Track HITMAN.
Tag Team Coaching Success Story.
When faced with a problem Chuck Norris asks himself, "What would The Scoot DO?"
Post by: chitown on April 10, 2008, 04:33:26 PM
Post by: FastTracker33 on April 10, 2008, 06:58:51 PM
But yes, I hope so, too, chitown. You helped a whole lot, and I will let everyone know what happens with me. Thank you, all!
--------------------
-Brian
http://BeansProShop.com
Home of the Secret Sauce!
Post by: dicnic on April 10, 2008, 10:02:47 PM
At your age, you have many, many years of bowling ahead of you. It would be a shame to ruin the possibility of good bowling for years down the road because of lack of attention to a problem today.
Take care of your body, it is still growing.
--------------------
Never take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.
Post by: Robadat on April 10, 2008, 10:11:54 PM
The pain in your wrist and fingers are most likely being caused by the physical changes in size of your hands and fingers. At your age, you should be getting refit at a minimum of every six months. Probably sooner if you are going through growth spurts.
My guess is that you are also developing a much stronger release and combined with fit problems, it is creating problems with your joints and tendons. Try to just relax your grip some and let the ball do most of the work, you will probably see a rise in your comfort levels. It will probably also help in reducing a lot of the over-reaction problems and help you regain your consistency.
And as others have said, take some of your money and invest it in a good coach, he will be the one most likely see exactly where your problems are coming from.
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Post by: FastTracker33 on April 12, 2008, 08:28:06 PM
I think I will just try my best and put up with this. I guess throwing an Orbit Extreme Solid EVERY DAY won't be too annoying! LOL.
Here, let's see. I shoot 511 trying to throw my Strike Machine/Orbit Extreme together, and I shoot 585 trying to throw my Columbia Action, and the Orbit Extreme for about 5 frames.. Today, I shoot 631.. Throwing ONLY the Orbit Extreme. LOL. Maybe this ball is just money. And guys, i'm not bowling on a great wall of china. I'm bowling on a shot you have to work for. I've bowled on walls, and I always shoot 650+. It's NOT hard. Lol.
I really don't think this is something of me being inconsistant. Maybe it's the feel of my ball. Sometimes I feel like the ring finger (sarge easter finger) is a little weird. It's unexplainable. Maybe certain balls/layouts don't match up for me.. Maybe.. Who knows!
I will try my best to get a coach to help me answer these questions!
Thank you, everyone!
--------------------
-Brian
http://BeansProShop.com
Home of the Secret Sauce!