BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: BrunsMike on January 24, 2013, 04:29:39 PM
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As some of you have read in the last few weeks in an earlier post I created "Push-a-way..... Not so much". Well after a couple weeks of working with the hinge form and a few modifications I came to a very comfortable approach that is 95% effortless and very repeatable shot to shot.
Teusday I got in another 7 games of practice. At 1st when I went for my 1st couple of shots I tried to recreate what I was doing the week before in my wednesday night league which was a 5 step approach. Not quite sure how I was able to do it as I had trouble with the shot 1st thing Tuesday. So I changed up my approach from 5 step to 4 step. I basically take 1 step with my right foot, as I start my 2nd step the hinge goes into motion then the rest is automatic.
Last week I had lots of pulled shots from a number of issues, Tuesday with the modified approach all my issues from the previous week were gone. I'm now feeling the best I've ever felt in my game. The scores yesterday are what I believe just the beginning of whats yet the best to come.
I've been having issues with a slump, all it took was a major game overhaul to rebound. I've shot more 210+ games in the last 2 days then I have in the last 3 months!
Teusday: 215, 211, 288, 215, 220, 210. I was still making little changes with the form. I didn't care about the scores but practice was making sure I can repeat shots easily so naturally I was competitively practice.
Wednesday night I shot: 202, 237, 216 for 655. I wasn't comfortable the 1st game and the 3rd game I need to make a ball change much sooner.
I feel this new form has not yet shown what it can and hopefully will do for me in the future.
Video is posted in the videos section.
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Who said you can't teach an old dog new tricks :)
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That's good man. I recently went from hinge to a push-away and my results have gotten better. I like the push-away because I start the pendulum where I need to depending on the speed needed.
Different strokes for different folks.
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Now the only thing you need to do is stop keeping score when you practice. You should worry more about:
Did you hit your mark?
Did you hit the pocket?
If so, light, high, or flush?
Did you carry?
Did your ball react the way it should on every shot?
Did you pick up your spares?
Practice scores are meaningless.
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LGD: I agree with that statement wholeheartedly, but if you've been in a slump, beit mental or physical, the scores build confidence. The keys you mention are absolutely more important, but if you're doing all that correctly you'll enjoy your scores as well.
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I think the hinge is supposed to start in the first step in a 4 step and complete reaching it's final point of this move just as the first step finishes.
Regards,
Luckierlefty
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I think the hinge is supposed to start in the first step in a 4 step and complete reaching it's final point of this move just as the first step finishes.
Regards,
Luckierlefty
I think it drops on the second step in a four step. Since you are not 'pushing' the ball, you do not need to get it in motion on the first step. It would start to drop somewhere at the very end of the first step or during the second step so that the ball is at the bottom of the swing at the end of the second step. At least, that's how it feels to me while I am bowling.
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No, it indeed starts on the first step in a four step approach. It starts on the second step of a five step approach. Don't overcomplicated it. You are still getting the ball in motion, you just aren't pushing up or out or both. One of the benefits of the hinge is it gets your feet moving faster as described in Slowinski's excellent write up on this method to initiate your ball into the swing.
I think the hinge is supposed to start in the first step in a 4 step and complete reaching it's final point of this move just as the first step finishes.
Regards,
Luckierlefty
I think it drops on the second step in a four step. Since you are not 'pushing' the ball, you do not need to get it in motion on the first step. It would start to drop somewhere at the very end of the first step or during the second step so that the ball is at the bottom of the swing at the end of the second step. At least, that's how it feels to me while I am bowling.
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I think it drops on the second step in a four step. Since you are not 'pushing' the ball, you do not need to get it in motion on the first step. It would start to drop somewhere at the very end of the first step or during the second step so that the ball is at the bottom of the swing at the end of the second step. At least, that's how it feels to me while I am bowling.
MI 2 AZ, you're correct, at least if you subscribe to Joe Slowinski's approach to the Hinge. Joe says to think "drop-left", meaning that as the bottom of the hand drops, take the left step. We know the left step is the second step of a four step approach. To your point, it's makes sense since you're not pushing the ball out.
I've never tried this, but I'm going to give it an attempt the next time I practice.
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Score mean absolutely nothing during practice mode, correct. I know scores don't mean anything and I wasn't really keeping track of my scores (my buddy was). When I go to practice I work on repeating shots, I try to hit all targets. Dots, arrows, break point.
As far as when the hinge starts is all in personal feel IMO. I tried starting the hinge in the 1st step and the ball was already out of my hand by the 3rd step. That's when I thought okay lets try 2nd step and it was perfect for me.
As of last week I have some more work yet to do with the style change. I'm not sure if it was due to the tougher then normal house shot, the notoriously bad pair of lanes I was on, or if I was just off for the night or a combination of several things. I don't mind putting in the hours especially since I've already seen some of the results already.
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Absolutely incorrect information. If you don't utilize the hinge, how do you feel you're qualified to speak about it.
When Slowinski writes "drop left" that is part of a three and a half step drill designed to get you used to dropping the ball into the hinge without pushing up or out and also to get you used to your feet moving faster.
Again, read the article written by the author. How simple is that to do instead of passing along incorrect information and/or overcomplicating this delivery start. Let's not forget the basics of good timing. The hinge is simply a different way of getting the ball in motion. It still must be started at the right time. Drop ball on first step of four step delivery, second step of five step delivery.
Need proof? Watch five steppers Chris Barnes and Pete Weber. Ball is hinged on second step of their delivery. Watch four stepper Bill O'neill as he hinges on first step.
I think it drops on the second step in a four step. Since you are not 'pushing' the ball, you do not need to get it in motion on the first step. It would start to drop somewhere at the very end of the first step or during the second step so that the ball is at the bottom of the swing at the end of the second step. At least, that's how it feels to me while I am bowling.
MI 2 AZ, you're correct, at least if you subscribe to Joe Slowinski's approach to the Hinge. Joe says to think "drop-left", meaning that as the bottom of the hand drops, take the left step. We know the left step is the second step of a four step approach. To your point, it's makes sense since you're not pushing the ball out.
I've never tried this, but I'm going to give it an attempt the next time I practice.
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Where is this artical? I haven't read it yet but I would like to. Could help me open my eyes and progress the style change a bit faster.
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LGD,
I have been using a drop or hinge, since about 1980, long before I ever heard anyone have a name for it. I was not taught it by anyone, I just figured it out to simplify my game because of a pushaway issue. And, as I said, it 'feels' like I am starting the drop at the very end of the first step or in the second step. I will have someone watch me to verify. As we all know, what we think we 'feel' and what is actually happening can be two very different things.
Especially with me, as old as I am. :)
I looked for the Slowinski article that you mentioned and found it here:
http://bowlingknowledge.info/images/stories/slowinskifeb09.pdf (http://bowlingknowledge.info/images/stories/slowinskifeb09.pdf)
After reading about the 3 step drill, I have to wonder why he is only using 3 steps? Is it to promote the feeling of dropping it on the second step of four because he wants the bowler to drop it on the left step, which in four will be the second step. If he wants us to start the drop on the first step of four, it would have to be associated with the right foot moving, no? Why have a drill that emphasizes learning how to drop the ball on the wrong step? Well, it's late and I am tired so I will re-read this tomorrow.
I do not have fast feet so I will try to work on that drill in my next practice session.
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I quoted almost exactly from the Slowinski article that MI 2 AZ linked. The article was very clear in stating to step with left foot as the ball starts to fall.
Thsi makes perfect sense. With the traditional push (which I use), the ball is pushed completely out by the end of the first step, and begins to fall with the second. Timing wise, that puts you where Slowinski describes the hinge with what he calls "drop-left".
If you start the hinge drop early in the first step where you would do the traditional push out, the ball would start in motion much too quickly. This is fact -- not conjecture. Slowinski's description is clear in the outline of his 3-step drill. For anyone still confused, they should read or re-read the linked article.
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Thank you for posting up the link.
When I used the 5 step approach with the hinge I had okay results but felt way out of time and not very natural. The next practice session I worked with a couple different things and finally got comfortable with a 4 step with the ball dropping between the 1st and 2nd step. I've always been a 4 stepper used to be a 5 stepper a few years ago. Then I noticed pin carry, accuracy, and repeating shots got better and easier.
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What you are doing, Mike, is what Mo Pinel calls the Shift Bowl technique. He says that bowling is a five count process and came up with this because a lot of people have trouble knowing when to start the ball drop, hinge, push, whatever you want to call it. He has people set up like they are going to take five steps. He then has them slide the foot that will be the one that slides at delivery forward about a foot and a half. Most of bowlers weight is on the non-slide foot. When you start the approach, you shift the weight to left foot and step forward, dropping ball when right foot hits the floor. Google Mo Pinel Shift Bowl.
To others, like I said, there is more than enough video proof to show when pro bowlers hinge their arm. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5nnDbV0znE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5nnDbV0znE)
This is an excellent video breakdown of the modern game. At about 2:30 The Hinge section starts. Every bowler starts their hinge when I say they do.
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What you are doing, Mike, is what Mo Pinel calls the Shift Bowl technique. He says that bowling is a five count process and came up with this because a lot of people have trouble knowing when to start the ball drop, hinge, push, whatever you want to call it. He has people set up like they are going to take five steps. He then has them slide the foot that will be the one that slides at delivery forward about a foot and a half. Most of bowlers weight is on the non-slide foot. When you start the approach, you shift the weight to left foot and step forward, dropping ball when right foot hits the floor. Google Mo Pinel Shift Bowl.
To others, like I said, there is more than enough video proof to show when pro bowlers hinge their arm. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5nnDbV0znE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5nnDbV0znE)
This is an excellent video breakdown of the modern game. At about 2:30 The Hinge section starts. Every bowler starts their hinge when I say they do.
Actually, not all the bowlers in the video hinge their arm in the same timing. A notable example is Chris Barnes, who can be seen executing the hinge later in his approach.
In Mark Baker's book, "The Game Changer", he talks specifically about Barnes' late pushaway timing. Baker correctly identifies that Barnes executes the hinge at the end of his second step in a five-step delivery.
The lesson here is that there isn't absolute right or wrong timing when executing the hinge. And it's no different with the traditional push away. Some bowlers push up and out, while others have a less pronounced push forward with a downward angle. What I like about Mark Baker's approach to coaching is that it doesn't matter. His goal is to get you to the point where when your slide foot is flat on the approach, the swing is parallel to the floor. Regardless of how you get there, that's the sweet spot in execution. There is a reason he's the personal coach to both Barnes and O'Neill.
To Mike, I'm glad the hinge has helped your consistency. Just keep the method of push/drop in perspective with the overall approach.
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Yes, Baker has seemed to discover the one common trait all good bowlers share.
Glad you posted this and you beat me to it. I have said before and will say it again, bowlers must do what is comfortable to them and quethere is no "right" way to do it. If there was we would not see Belmonte today, Holman and Roth with their unique styles, Don Carter and his bent elbow, etc.
Do what's right, comfortable, and most importantly, what is repeatable for your own game.
BTW, I much prefer this style of posting between us.
What you are doing, Mike, is what Mo Pinel calls the Shift Bowl technique. He says that bowling is a five count process and came up with this because a lot of people have trouble knowing when to start the ball drop, hinge, push, whatever you want to call it. He has people set up like they are going to take five steps. He then has them slide the foot that will be the one that slides at delivery forward about a foot and a half. Most of bowlers weight is on the non-slide foot. When you start the approach, you shift the weight to left foot and step forward, dropping ball when right foot hits the floor. Google Mo Pinel Shift Bowl.
To others, like I said, there is more than enough video proof to show when pro bowlers hinge their arm. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5nnDbV0znE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5nnDbV0znE)
This is an excellent video breakdown of the modern game. At about 2:30 The Hinge section starts. Every bowler starts their hinge when I say they do.
Actually, not all the bowlers in the video hinge their arm in the same timing. A notable example is Chris Barnes, who can be seen executing the hinge later in his approach.
In Mark Baker's book, "The Game Changer", he talks specifically about Barnes' late pushaway timing. Baker correctly identifies that Barnes executes the hinge at the end of his second step in a five-step delivery.
The lesson here is that there isn't absolute right or wrong timing when executing the hinge. And it's no different with the traditional push away. Some bowlers push up and out, while others have a less pronounced push forward with a downward angle. What I like about Mark Baker's approach to coaching is that it doesn't matter. His goal is to get you to the point where when your slide foot is flat on the approach, the swing is parallel to the floor. Regardless of how you get there, that's the sweet spot in execution. There is a reason he's the personal coach to both Barnes and O'Neill.
To Mike, I'm glad the hinge has helped your consistency. Just keep the method of push/drop in perspective with the overall approach.
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Yes, Baker has seemed to discover the one common trait all good bowlers share.
Glad you posted this and you beat me to it. I have said before and will say it again, bowlers must do what is comfortable to them and quethere is no "right" way to do it. If there was we would not see Belmonte today, Holman and Roth with their unique styles, Don Carter and his bent elbow, etc.
Do what's right, comfortable, and most importantly, what is repeatable for your own game.
BTW, I much prefer this style of posting between us.
To your original point, I can see intellectually where the hinge can provide more consistency than the traditional push away. I tried the Slowinski 3-step hinge drill in my practice session this morning, and I really looked ugly. :o I could do it without the ball, but messed it up when trying the real thing. I had a mental block on dropping with the left step. It's something I'll have to experiment with again when the season is over and I have time to work through the kinks.
In any case, all good discussion. Anyone who says bowling is simple doesn't have their head screwed on.
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I totally get what everyone is saying and my take about it all is to do what I feel is normal for me. There is no 1 correct way to get from point A to point B but as long as it feels comfortable and normal to you then it's good.
I'm glad everyone is having a good technical debate without trying to rip each others head off.
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I'd like to make one point and then I would like to make another one later.
Regarding 3 step drills and Joe Slowinski's article. If one goes to section 4 of page 3 Joe cleary explains in the 3 step drill. "Drop-left" What he exactly means is that.
In the 3 step approach the ball starts it's downward motion first "Drop" then the step, "left".(for right handers).
This is the standard way of teaching 3 step before the concept of the hinge.
What this means is very cleary that for a 4 step the motion "hinge" starts before the next step of the what is the remaining 3 steps of the approach.
In addition the hinge starts right before the 3rd step in the 5 step approach or in the 2nd step.
Anyone who is confused about this point should reread the discussion or is trying to hinge in the 2nd step of your 4 step is missing the clear point.
Interestingly enough about 10 years ago there was a coach that was a tremendous advocate of free arm swing in the area I was living at the time. He took many a player and had them shorten from 5 to 4 and had many of them practice much of the time at 3 steps. His instructions were very clear, start your ball motion down then step.
Many players had their first 800 or multiple 800s and 300s using his methods. I took lessons and had trouble switching to 4 step as persisted in doing the traditional push out in the 4 step.
By hinging now in the 2nd step of my 5 step I have realized an increase in speed, a better flat spot I believe, more freedom and striking power. Frankly I'm enjoying the new feels and using the ideas of Norm Duke's that this feeling of shifting the weight from my non bowling hand to the bowling hand is happening right as my 2nd step touches the ground.
It feels great. I would not be surprised if I could do the hinge in a 4 step like Parker Bohn and have more freedom and speed than ever before in the 4 step.
Regards,
Luckylefty
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In my video after taking another close look at it, I start my hinge as I take my 2nd step. As I do that I also see that all my momentum pauses to allow the hinge to operate 1st then everything picks up speed. Tomorrow I'm going to practice and work on starting the hinge a bit sooner to hopefully make everything smoother. I hope I can start the hinge halfway into my 1st step with good results.
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Norm Duke in his Excellent video states that perfect timing occurs when the ball weight shifts to the bowling hand from the non bowling hand at exactly the same time as the weight goes to the foot at the end of the 1st step in a 4 step or 2nd step of a 5 step.
He goes on to say that there is a rounding off of this motion(it looks like a hinge) with his arm down at near a 30 to 45 degree angle at the Exact moment his weight goes to his 2nd step of his 5 step approach.
He says if these items are in sync at end of the 1st step of a 4 step or 2nd step in a 5 step you are in perfect timing. If not start again!
From there he says all this stuff about not too fast with the feet etc, is not relevant. You are in synch if the tie above occurs. From there at this point of In synch one wants to move along to generate ball speed especially if his size.
If the items above in order and synch. All systems go!
Regards,
Luckylefty
PS I believe for this reason alone his DVD is worth owning!
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Norm Duke in his Excellent video states that perfect timing occurs when the ball weight shifts to the bowling hand from the non bowling hand at exactly the same time as the weight goes to the foot at the end of the 1st step in a 4 step or 2nd step of a 5 step.
LL, thanks for your additional insights. I just went to nextlevelbowling.com and watched a few of Duke's instructional clips. The visuals were very helpful in understanding his approach to the push away. When I practice the hinge again, I'm going to focus getting the ball in motion a little sooner than I had.
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You are welcome! I wish I had never learned the standard old fashion pushaway!
I am loving the changes Speed getting closer to being matched to revs is a much nicer place to be! Especially when it comes from Freedom in the arm swing.
Regards,
Luckylefty
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Well tonight I felt absolutely awesome all night long but I could not carry after the 1st game. Started out with a 225 then 165 and 151 to finish out the set. No matter the adjustment, ball change, even changing the lines into the pocket I could not carry anything. Lots of weak 10s and flat 10s, couple pocket splits that should have carried but didn't. The last few weeks have been very tough and anything a few boards off results in absolute max penalty.
Won't be able to get in any practice this week but definitely the week after.
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Doing something dramatically different in league with no Practice, brave!
I'm not that brave!
Persevere! Practice!
Regards,
Luckylefty
PS if speed is up often a move right or ball with more push is needed at the same inside line as long as recovery drilled in!
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Well I figured my average doesn't mean anything really, just a #. The team I'm on seems to continuously get our ass beat by suddenly hot 150 average bowlers every week. Last night 4 man team with a blind beat us by over 125 pins every game. Each bowler was 20-75 pins over their current average each game and every one shot 610-655 for their series! The week before they were right around average. Just seems to be when a team bowls us they mysteriously get hot for the night. Normal team joke is "Want your best night of the year, bowl us!"
Anyway, because of that the team is in last place. Since the 2nd half start our team record is 0 and 27.
So I figured since we can't win why not do something else like a new style. I was already bowling like garbage I couldn't do any worse. 541 for the night is right on track with was I shooting previously before the change. This won't stop me from going on because even though I had a bad night I still felt better then ever. I will say though that this season I've shot more 500-550 nights then any other season in the last 6 years. I think I have a total of 15 weeks over 600 and the rest are under 599 with a handful under 500.
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If the feelings are good and timing is good (the change it sounds you made) it sounds as if you are aware of the better feels and increase in freedom I hope you are getting.
Often if speed is increasing a move to the right(outside move) will be needed for the ball to square up to the pocket.
REgards,
Luckylefty
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Mike, how did everyone else on the pair do in comparison?
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Everyone on the other team were over average but not what I would call your good form type. Last nights theme was that you got rewarded for unorthodox styles. Everyone that was far from smooth, relaxed, or finishing on the right foot even did extremely well. The 1 guy who bowls right handed and finishes on his right foot shot 300 his last game and just missed 800 for the night with a 798. The 4 guys we bowled against were slightly weird in their styles and all shot 610-655.
The other 4 on my team could not carry.
I tried deeper lines, normal track area lines, even moved right. The only shots that got near pocket were track area shots, any minor adjustment resulted in max punishment if I missed slightly left or right. Same was true with the rest of the team. I played deeper, the ball could not make the corner at the break point. Outside lines the ball would check up hard going through the nose or completely missing left of brooklyn.
Thinking about pulling my T-Road Pearl back from retirement because my IQ Pearl is just too much ball to be a good replacement.
Other bowlers were close to normal average wise but more on the under average side of things.
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Okay it's been a few weeks since I've updated my progress. 2 weeks ago I shot so-so and tonight was successful. My idea of a successful night is when I shoot 650+.
Last week I shot 600 which is 9 pins over ave for the night, I felt great all night but I was having issues with pin carry and hitting my marks. Start off with my IQ Pearl and switched to my Marvel Pearl but pin carry suffered all night.
Tonight I tried something a little different, started off with my Victory Road Pearl and shot 223 with an open 10th. 2nd game I started off with a double then 4 9 counts closing each frame, made a ball change to the IQ pearl and took a few shots to get lined up. Shot 188. 3rd game I went Strike, got a touch slow left the 3-10 then made the spare. After that I went off the sheet for 280. Shot 691 for the night.
I've worked with my hinge to start falling at the end of my 1st step which feels even more natural.