BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: TheFearlessForecaster on January 09, 2018, 07:46:38 PM
-
Been bored at work these first few days of 2018:
www.HookJuice.com
www.ThatPurpleStuff.com
Just a little fun poke at each....
Maybe Ron will buy the URLs from me now, what a terrible CEO not even owning these URLs... 8)
-
Wow you razz him more than I do ole Chad Murphy. Guess they are both hucksters peddling their own brand of horsesh1t.
-
www.ThatPurpleStuff.com
"For an alternative approved cleaner for your bowling ball we recommend a mix of Windex, SimpleGreen, and rubbing alcohol."
A mix of those is NOT a approved cleaner.
-
thanks Aloarjr810
Removed the word "mix" from the spoof page, because even though mixing 3 approved products seems like it would be acceptable or adding water, who knows exactly what the dopey USBC would say.... Thanks again!
www.ThatPurpleStuff.com
"For an alternative approved cleaner for your bowling ball we recommend a mix of Windex, SimpleGreen, and rubbing alcohol."
A mix of those is NOT a approved cleaner.
-
Lol if they're all approved individually, a mix is by default approved . .
Had somebody ask me in a comment on a video what I thought about it because they were on the fence. Lol I didn't mince words: "it's a scam of the highest order."
thanks Aloarjr810
Removed the word "mix" from the spoof page, as even though mixing 3 approved products seems like it would be acceptable or adding water, who knows exactly what the dopey USBC would say....
www.ThatPurpleStuff.com
"For an alternative approved cleaner for your bowling ball we recommend a mix of Windex, SimpleGreen, and rubbing alcohol."
A mix of those is NOT a approved cleaner.
-
Lol if they're all approved individually, a mix is by default approved . .
Actually no their not Luke, I asked the Rules dept. of the USBC about it a while back.
They said the cleaners are only approved in the original formulations they were tested in not mixed.
USBC Email reply:
Hello,
Thank you for your question. The products listed on the approved cleaners list were approved in the formulas and concentrations that they are distributed in, not in combination with other products. It can be dangerous and harmful to mix chemicals, and is not something that is recommended.
Thank you,
Jason Milligan
Research Technician
Equipment Specifications & Certifications / Sport Bowling
-
Well that definitely sounds like USBC LOL. Ok, I'll buy that.
Lol if they're all approved individually, a mix is by default approved . .
Actually no their not Luke, I asked the Rules dept. of the USBC about it a while back.
They said the cleaners are only approved in the original formulations they were tested in not mixed.
USBC Email reply:
Hello,
Thank you for your question. The products listed on the approved cleaners list were approved in the formulas and concentrations that they are distributed in, not in combination with other products. It can be dangerous and harmful to mix chemicals, and is not something that is recommended.
Thank you,
Jason Milligan
Research Technician
Equipment Specifications & Certifications / Sport Bowling
-
gotta love the USBC! :o :o :o :o
www.ThatPurpleStuff.com
www.Hookjuice.com
Well that definitely sounds like USBC LOL. Ok, I'll buy that.
Lol if they're all approved individually, a mix is by default approved . .
Actually no their not Luke, I asked the Rules dept. of the USBC about it a while back.
They said the cleaners are only approved in the original formulations they were tested in not mixed.
USBC Email reply:
Hello,
Thank you for your question. The products listed on the approved cleaners list were approved in the formulas and concentrations that they are distributed in, not in combination with other products. It can be dangerous and harmful to mix chemicals, and is not something that is recommended.
Thank you,
Jason Milligan
Research Technician
Equipment Specifications & Certifications / Sport Bowling
-
I just started using Simple Green by itself and sometimes diluted with water instead of ordering Monster Tac from bowlingball.com. What's the supposed benefit to adding Windex and rubbing alcohol to the Simple Green versus using it alone?
-
Well some may think the USBC is being stupid or silly in what their saying about mixing approved products.
Their not, just because products individually are safe and perform a certain way. Does not mean the same would hold true if those products were combined.
Bleach and ammonia are fairly safe to use individually, but mixed they are VERY dangerous.
So until those mixes are tested, they can't say they are legal to use.
-
I just started using Simple Green by itself and sometimes diluted with water instead of ordering Monster Tac from bowlingball.com. What's the supposed benefit to adding Windex and rubbing alcohol to the Simple Green versus using it alone?
During a deep dive with Google came across chemist who recommend not mixing Simple Green with anything but water (which according to the USBC because water is not approved means its illegal at all times including even in your own home and I guess disqualifies a ball for life, friggin asshats). 91% iso is a great degreaser on its own but mixed with SG it reduce the effectiveness of both. Its better to use one after the other which is what I do. I have a small spray bottle of 91% I use immediately after a session and then when get home hit them with a SG/water mix (found 1:5 SG water works well and doesn't leave much film). Noticed also I very rarely get belt marks I notice any more as an added bonus.
-
Well some may think the USBC is being stupid or silly in what their saying about mixing approved products.
Their not, just because products individually are safe and perform a certain way. Does not mean the same would hold true if those products were combined.
Bleach and ammonia are fairly safe to use individually, but mixed they are VERY dangerous.
So until those mixes are tested, they can't say they are legal to use.
Water not being on their approved chemical list is ass nine (guess legal after all but boy good thing their rules aren't confusing). Full strength SG being legal but diluted with water (which it is made for and says right on label) being illegal is super ass nine.
-
I just started using Simple Green by itself and sometimes diluted with water instead of ordering Monster Tac from bowlingball.com. What's the supposed benefit to adding Windex and rubbing alcohol to the Simple Green versus using it alone?
While others may have a differing opinion, Basically by adding alcohol it drys/evaporates faster off the ball and also doesn't seem to leave a residue.
-
I just started using Simple Green by itself and sometimes diluted with water instead of ordering Monster Tac from bowlingball.com. What's the supposed benefit to adding Windex and rubbing alcohol to the Simple Green versus using it alone?
While others may have a differing opinion, Basically by adding alcohol it drys/evaporates faster off the ball and also doesn't seem to leave a residue.
Straight Iso evaporates faster and doesn't require waiting around for it to work. Either is fine though as long as gets the crap off your ball. Straight Iso can't be called out by butt hurt opponents and actually acted on though. Straight SG is legal but does tend to leave a film (if not diluted) and requires a minute to work which is why its better used at home. $2 an oz ball cleaners are for suckers when can get a gallon of iso or SG for $10. Really hated rationing cleaner. Still have a quart of Monster Tac I use for really big belt marks and my epoxy ball. Edge to cheap cleaner is can spray liberally with no worries.
-
USBC is on "That Purple Drank" stuff......
-
What does the OP hope to accomplish besides some kudos from a few dozen strangers on a very obscure bowling site that probably 90% of bowlers in the U.S. have never even visited?
You've already bought the domains, you apparently "know the secret sauce" to the cleaners and hook juice. Why not go all the way and open a store, bottle your own version, sell it for less and start making money? Why not, you have all the answers right OP? What are you waiting for?
Is marketing a brand on your own money and promoting it nationwide too time consuming for you?
Do you not like money?
Do you not have time for a side business venture?
Do you not see the value in the bowling ball cleaner market?
Are you afraid of failing?
Are you afraid that you have all keys to success based off of the CtD brand, but due to your own procrastination and fear of competition that you would take on the side project and fail?
Are you afraid of the backlash from the people who actually support Ronald Hickland Jr. and his products?
I'm a Team CtD member and support Ron Hickland Jr. because I like him as a person and he's given me countless hours of training, coaching, and help to my physical game and arsenal out of the kindness of his heart and wanting to see bowlers grow along with the sport. He's done all of this without asking for any payment from me, and for that I will continue to support his brand and pay it forward by giving to others in the game what people have given me.
He's building a brand and a loyal community of people who love the sport and want to see it grow. Your troll job is only that. A troll job. People will forget in a few weeks and you'll have nothing to show for it, while Team CtD is out loving the sport and loving the community that it's fostered.
Those who can, do.
Those who can't troll.
-DJ Marshall
Team CtD National Staffer
Las Vegas, NV
-
What does the OP hope to accomplish besides some kudos from a few dozen strangers on a very obscure bowling site that probably 90% of bowlers in the U.S. have never even visited?
You've already bought the domains, you apparently "know the secret sauce" to the cleaners and hook juice. Why not go all the way and open a store, bottle your own version, sell it for less and start making money? Why not, you have all the answers right OP? What are you waiting for?
Is marketing a brand on your own money and promoting it nationwide too time consuming for you?
Do you not like money?
Do you not have time for a side business venture?
Do you not see the value in the bowling ball cleaner market?
Are you afraid of failing?
Are you afraid that you have all keys to success based off of the CtD brand, but due to your own procrastination and fear of competition that you would take on the side project and fail?
Are you afraid of the backlash from the people who actually support Ronald Hickland Jr. and his products?
I'm a Team CtD member and support Ron Hickland Jr. because I like him as a person and he's given me countless hours of training, coaching, and help to my physical game and arsenal out of the kindness of his heart and wanting to see bowlers grow along with the sport. He's done all of this without asking for any payment from me, and for that I will continue to support his brand and pay it forward by giving to others in the game what people have given me.
He's building a brand and a loyal community of people who love the sport and want to see it grow. Your troll job is only that. A troll job. People will forget in a few weeks and you'll have nothing to show for it, while Team CtD is out loving the sport and loving the community that it's fostered.
Those who can, do.
Those who can't troll.
-DJ Marshall
Team CtD National Staffer
Las Vegas, NV
Get a grip there Mr. “Team CtD National Stafferâ€.
Ronald Hickland, OUT OF HIS OWN MOUTH, said that hook juice alters the chemical structure of the balls coverstock.
That, INHERENTLY, makes it “illegal†per U.S.B.C. standards.
So you, donning you armor of loyalty, jump to defend him by belittling someone who has EVERY RIGHT to say and do what he has?
RONALD HICKLAND, MR. “LOVES BOWLING AND BOWLERS AND WANTS TO SEE THE SPORT GROW†is the one who dropped the ball here. All he had to EVER do was provide the proof that his product was approved for use.
He didn’t because either it isn’t approved, or he just doesn’t care enough to do so.
Is it your opinion that people should just be able to flaunt the rules and sell anything they want to to the public, all because they are “nice people who care and have helped people out of the kindness of their hearts� BULLSHIT!
Now, we have, most likely, ALL used something “illegal†to clean our equipment at one point or another. The difference is, I ain’t trying to sell it to anyone else under the auspices of it being fine to use it, thus perpetrating fraud on the consumer.
Yes, FRAUD!
He was in the industry long enough, and involved deeply enough, to know what it takes to get product approval. He also knows that without that approval, his product is ILLEGAL TO USE, AND CAUSES ANY EQUIPMENT IT IS USED ON TO ALSO BECOME ILLEGAL, VOIDING THE MANUFACTURERS WARRANTY ON IT AND MAKING IT USELESS!
His knowledge and experience in the field, open him up to lawsuits from people that use his product, then sue him for screwing up all their equipment knowingly, by frauding them into using an illegal substance that, in turn, made their $1000’s of dollars worth of equipment illegal also.
You, my friend, need to get some new glasses, because the rose colored ones your wearing now ain’t working for you.
-
That's great that he helps you out. I can say I'm on staff and really do not do anything with it. They let anyone join, which is good to help grow a base of CtD followers, but no much else. I can honestly tell you that I didn't learn a thing by being a part of the group, so I left. It's not worth my time, but that's just my opinion.
Now I must say $40 to $50 per month to be on a monthly subscription is a little much.
What does the OP hope to accomplish besides some kudos from a few dozen strangers on a very obscure bowling site that probably 90% of bowlers in the U.S. have never even visited?
You've already bought the domains, you apparently "know the secret sauce" to the cleaners and hook juice. Why not go all the way and open a store, bottle your own version, sell it for less and start making money? Why not, you have all the answers right OP? What are you waiting for?
Is marketing a brand on your own money and promoting it nationwide too time consuming for you?
Do you not like money?
Do you not have time for a side business venture?
Do you not see the value in the bowling ball cleaner market?
Are you afraid of failing?
Are you afraid that you have all keys to success based off of the CtD brand, but due to your own procrastination and fear of competition that you would take on the side project and fail?
Are you afraid of the backlash from the people who actually support Ronald Hickland Jr. and his products?
I'm a Team CtD member and support Ron Hickland Jr. because I like him as a person and he's given me countless hours of training, coaching, and help to my physical game and arsenal out of the kindness of his heart and wanting to see bowlers grow along with the sport. He's done all of this without asking for any payment from me, and for that I will continue to support his brand and pay it forward by giving to others in the game what people have given me.
He's building a brand and a loyal community of people who love the sport and want to see it grow. Your troll job is only that. A troll job. People will forget in a few weeks and you'll have nothing to show for it, while Team CtD is out loving the sport and loving the community that it's fostered.
Those who can, do.
Those who can't troll.
-DJ Marshall
Team CtD National Staffer
Las Vegas, NV
-
I agree, I am not part of the subscription model any longer, but what Ron has done for me, going as far back as ten years I know that he's only trying to grow a brand. It's a free market economy.
You ballreviews guys ate up Beans Secret Sauce for years which could be replicated with 3M Finesse-it compound and peroxide. Where was the hate then? If you don't like the product, don't buy it. Creating a way to damage someone's brand through trolling seems a bit childish to me. But then again.....
-
I have a question..
What the h e double hockey sticks is CtD??
-
I have a question..
What the h e double hockey sticks is CtD??
CTD stands for Creating The Difference which is the company name.
https://ctdbowling.com (https://ctdbowling.com)
-
HackJandy stated " $2 an oz. ball cleaners are for suckers".
Some of us have done very well financially in life and would rather buy the commercial products ($2 per oz.) then having to spend time mixing products like SG, ISO, water, etc. to clean our bowling balls
That does not mean we are suckers!
I don't think any less of my fellow man who chooses to mix their own bargain basement cleaners, whether they have to financially or just simply elect to do so.
But, calling anyone who elects to pay $2 an oz. for a commercial ball cleaner a sucker does not compute and is frankly offensive.
-
HackJandy stated " $2 an oz. ball cleaners are for suckers".
Some of us have done very well financially in life and would rather buy the commercial products ($2 per oz.) then having to spend time mixing products like SG, ISO, water, etc. to clean our bowling balls
That does not mean we are suckers!
I don't think any less of my fellow man who chooses to mix their own bargain basement cleaners, whether they have to financially or just simply elect to do so.
But, calling anyone who elects to pay $2 an oz. for a commercial ball cleaner a sucker does not compute and is frankly offensive.
And Ron thanks you. Seriously if you use straight 91% IPA you don't have to mix crap. It works at least 95% as well as $2 an oz stuff for 5% of the cost (with SG second cleaning at home it works better than Monster Tac once over). Many of the cleaners are alcohol based anyway. Do whatever works for you but plenty of hucksters like Ron here to make you feel good about fancy brand X. I have plenty of money (25 balls and counting most in last 6 months, middle aged with a good day job has its perks) but would rather not spend it on overpriced consumables from the ball companies (who mostly sell re-purposed general cleaners anyway). Still do whatever the hell you want man. I could care less. Just another rando to me so never meant to throw shade your way personally. Any topic involving hook juice is going to get the word sucker (or equivalent) thrown out there guaranteed.
(edit: the one $2 an oz cleaner I do recommend people do use at least for resurfaces is clean and dull. That is the best cleaner on the market, not for every session use obviously)
-
This is a bowling review site where I discovered these products and to my surprise neither had a website. I did indeed buy the URLs for sh-t and giggles as it was so surprising they were available as anyone selling a product online should buy the URL(s) for their product as the costs are so low in general - Marketing 101.
I have tried TPS and it was very unimpressive and thought was overpriced. I will not try hookjuice because the price is ludicrous and the claims are even more. I put up the pages as a spoof all in good fun and tried to make them amusing nothing more, nothing less. Neither page is a commercial venture just opinions and small attempts at humor.
And if this site is so obscure why are you posting on it?
What does the OP hope to accomplish besides some kudos from a few dozen strangers on a very obscure bowling site that probably 90% of bowlers in the U.S. have never even visited?
You've already bought the domains, you apparently "know the secret sauce" to the cleaners and hook juice. Why not go all the way and open a store, bottle your own version, sell it for less and start making money? Why not, you have all the answers right OP? What are you waiting for?
Is marketing a brand on your own money and promoting it nationwide too time consuming for you?
Do you not like money?
Do you not have time for a side business venture?
Do you not see the value in the bowling ball cleaner market?
Are you afraid of failing?
Are you afraid that you have all keys to success based off of the CtD brand, but due to your own procrastination and fear of competition that you would take on the side project and fail?
Are you afraid of the backlash from the people who actually support Ronald Hickland Jr. and his products?
I'm a Team CtD member and support Ron Hickland Jr. because I like him as a person and he's given me countless hours of training, coaching, and help to my physical game and arsenal out of the kindness of his heart and wanting to see bowlers grow along with the sport. He's done all of this without asking for any payment from me, and for that I will continue to support his brand and pay it forward by giving to others in the game what people have given me.
He's building a brand and a loyal community of people who love the sport and want to see it grow. Your troll job is only that. A troll job. People will forget in a few weeks and you'll have nothing to show for it, while Team CtD is out loving the sport and loving the community that it's fostered.
Those who can, do.
Those who can't troll.
-DJ Marshall
Team CtD National Staffer
Las Vegas, NV
-
Actually those who recognize someone trying to scam bowlers by abusing the misconception that more hook and/or backend is automatically better, those people troll. There's a very big difference between the words "improve," and "alter."
What does the OP hope to accomplish besides some kudos from a few dozen strangers on a very obscure bowling site that probably 90% of bowlers in the U.S. have never even visited?
You've already bought the domains, you apparently "know the secret sauce" to the cleaners and hook juice. Why not go all the way and open a store, bottle your own version, sell it for less and start making money? Why not, you have all the answers right OP? What are you waiting for?
Is marketing a brand on your own money and promoting it nationwide too time consuming for you?
Do you not like money?
Do you not have time for a side business venture?
Do you not see the value in the bowling ball cleaner market?
Are you afraid of failing?
Are you afraid that you have all keys to success based off of the CtD brand, but due to your own procrastination and fear of competition that you would take on the side project and fail?
Are you afraid of the backlash from the people who actually support Ronald Hickland Jr. and his products?
I'm a Team CtD member and support Ron Hickland Jr. because I like him as a person and he's given me countless hours of training, coaching, and help to my physical game and arsenal out of the kindness of his heart and wanting to see bowlers grow along with the sport. He's done all of this without asking for any payment from me, and for that I will continue to support his brand and pay it forward by giving to others in the game what people have given me.
He's building a brand and a loyal community of people who love the sport and want to see it grow. Your troll job is only that. A troll job. People will forget in a few weeks and you'll have nothing to show for it, while Team CtD is out loving the sport and loving the community that it's fostered.
Those who can, do.
Those who can't troll.
-DJ Marshall
Team CtD National Staffer
Las Vegas, NV
-
HackJandy
I don't need Ron H. to thank me because I don't use his products.
I respect whatever product(s) anyone elects to use and for whatever reason they use it.
I use Tac Up and Clean and Dull. So based on price per oz. accordingly to you that makes me and a whole lot of others suckers.
As I said I respect what you use. You may try to extend the same courtesy.
Thank you and goodnight.
-
HackJandy
I don't need Ron H. to thank me because I don't use his products.
I respect whatever product(s) anyone elects to use and for whatever reason they use it.
I use Tac Up and Clean and Dull. So based on price per oz. accordingly to you that makes me and a whole lot of others suckers.
As I said I respect what you use. You may try to extend the same courtesy.
Thank you and goodnight.
I respect (respect, complete indifference same thing right?) your right to spend your money how you choose and suckers only came up based on the topic being all about suckers. To each their own as you say. Posted edit about clean and dull before your post and that is not your typical cleaner (little goes a very long ways) so it is out in the garage.
-
Well some may think the USBC is being stupid or silly in what their saying about mixing approved products.
Their not, just because products individually are safe and perform a certain way. Does not mean the same would hold true if those products were combined.
Bleach and ammonia are fairly safe to use individually, but mixed they are VERY dangerous.
So until those mixes are tested, they can't say they are legal to use.
So am I supposed to believe that if I use a paper towel dampened with water is illegal to use to wipe off the film left after using an approved cleaner?
Water not being on their approved chemical list is ass nine (guess legal after all but boy good thing their rules aren't confusing). Full strength SG being legal but diluted with water (which it is made for and says right on label) being illegal is super ass nine.
-
On the SG "diluted" with water stuff...
It's not diluted. It's returned to its proper formulation. It's sold as a concentrate. It's not intended to be used in that form. It's fully intended to be mixed with water to return it to its proper mixture. The same mixture it should have been tested at by the USBC.
So I have no idea where it keeps coming up as you can't "dilute" SG. Its on the packaging to NOT use the product in the form it ships in. To use it in its intended and safe formulation, you're supposed to mix water in.
-
Water not being on their approved chemical list is ass nine (guess legal after all but boy good thing their rules aren't confusing). Full strength SG being legal but diluted with water (which it is made for and says right on label) being illegal is super ass nine.
This is an incredible display of irony here, the bold text is literally asinine.
-
On the SG "diluted" with water stuff...
It's not diluted. It's returned to its proper formulation. It's sold as a concentrate. It's not intended to be used in that form. It's fully intended to be mixed with water to return it to its proper mixture. The same mixture it should have been tested at by the USBC.
So I have no idea where it keeps coming up as you can't "dilute" SG. Its on the packaging to NOT use the product in the form it ships in. To use it in its intended and safe formulation, you're supposed to mix water in.
If you go back to my earlier post With the email from the usbc. It was about mixing SG with Alcohol.
And all they said was that the products on the list were approved in the original formulations they were tested in not mixed together.
This whole water not being legal thing was never actually said by the Usbc, hackjandy was the one that started it and keeps harping on it.
He's basing it on the idea that if something is not on the list, then it's illegal to use and since water isn't on the list the usbc is saying it's illegal.
If you want to take that logic farther, then abralon, sandpaper etc. are illegal because they are not on the list of approved products list either.
The approved/not approved list is just a list of products that have been submitted to and tested by the usbc.
Things that are not on the list are neither approved or not approved, their legallity either way just hasn't been determined.
It doesn't mean they can be used or can't be used.
It's just that in cases like that typically you would err on the side caution before using a untested product and just treat it as not approved until you find out otherwise.
But he's taking it to a extreme.
-
Water not being on their approved chemical list is ass nine (guess legal after all but boy good thing their rules aren't confusing). Full strength SG being legal but diluted with water (which it is made for and says right on label) being illegal is super ass nine.
This is an incredible display of irony here, the bold text is literally asinine.
For all intensive purposes, this is wrong.
-
On the SG "diluted" with water stuff...
It's not diluted. It's returned to its proper formulation. It's sold as a concentrate. It's not intended to be used in that form. It's fully intended to be mixed with water to return it to its proper mixture. The same mixture it should have been tested at by the USBC.
So I have no idea where it keeps coming up as you can't "dilute" SG. Its on the packaging to NOT use the product in the form it ships in. To use it in its intended and safe formulation, you're supposed to mix water in.
If you go back to my earlier post With the email from the usbc. It was about mixing SG with Alcohol.
And all they said was that the products on the list were approved in the original formulations they were tested in not mixed together.
This whole water not being legal thing was never actually said by the Usbc, hackjandy was the one that started it and keeps harping on it.
He's basing it on the idea that if something is not on the list, then it's illegal to use and since water isn't on the list the usbc is saying it's illegal.
If you want to take that logic farther, then abralon, sandpaper etc. are illegal because they are not on the list of approved products list either.
The approved/not approved list is just a list of products that have been submitted to and tested by the usbc.
Things that are not on the list are neither approved or not approved, their legallity either way just hasn't been determned.
It's just In cases lke this typically you would err on the side caution before using a un tested product and just treat it as not approved until you find out otherwise.
He just took it to a extreme.
I know you are more versed in the rules than 99% of the bowlers. And I realize the idiocy in assuming water is not allowed. However, USBC has painted themselves in a corner on this. USBC has a list of Approved chemicals they say are the only chemicals that can be used. See below from Rule 18:
18/1 When may I alter the surface of my bowling ball?
a. Cleaning – Cleaners approved for use any time may be utilized before, during or after
certified competition; cleaners approved for only before and after competition may only be
used during these times. The use of a ball spinner is prohibited during competition.
b. Sanding – You are permitted to sand the surface of your bowling balls prior to certified
competition; however, the use of abrasives is strictly prohibited once the first ball is thrown
in the competition.
c. Polishing – You are permitted to polish the surface of your bowling ball prior to certified
competition. However, once tournament or league play begins, the use of a ball spinner is
strictly prohibited.
They say sanding is allowed so assuming Abralon is illegal isn't necessarily correct. Only chemicals on the list can be used. Water isn't on the list.
I will use water much like a lot of bowlers will use whatever they want when at home.
-
Us bowlers are funny people. ::)
-
They say sanding is allowed so assuming Abralon is illegal isn't necessarily correct. Only chemicals on the list can be used. Water isn't on the list.
Just so you know, I wasn't saying Abralon was illegal obviously it's not.
Just that "if" someone wanted too they could argue it was since was not listed on any usbc approved product list (which there are other lists, like for plugging materials etc.) there for it must be illegal.
-
Us bowlers are funny people. ::)
Yes it's been posted before that asking bowlers to use common sense is a waste of time.
-
Water not being on their approved chemical list is ass nine (guess legal after all but boy good thing their rules aren't confusing). Full strength SG being legal but diluted with water (which it is made for and says right on label) being illegal is super ass nine.
This is an incredible display of irony here, the bold text is literally asinine.
Takes one to know one which is why calling out USBC.
-
On the SG "diluted" with water stuff...
It's not diluted. It's returned to its proper formulation. It's sold as a concentrate. It's not intended to be used in that form. It's fully intended to be mixed with water to return it to its proper mixture. The same mixture it should have been tested at by the USBC.
So I have no idea where it keeps coming up as you can't "dilute" SG. Its on the packaging to NOT use the product in the form it ships in. To use it in its intended and safe formulation, you're supposed to mix water in.
If you go back to my earlier post With the email from the usbc. It was about mixing SG with Alcohol.
And all they said was that the products on the list were approved in the original formulations they were tested in not mixed together.
This whole water not being legal thing was never actually said by the Usbc, hackjandy was the one that started it and keeps harping on it.
He's basing it on the idea that if something is not on the list, then it's illegal to use and since water isn't on the list the usbc is saying it's illegal.
If you want to take that logic farther, then abralon, sandpaper etc. are illegal because they are not on the list of approved products list either.
The approved/not approved list is just a list of products that have been submitted to and tested by the usbc.
Things that are not on the list are neither approved or not approved, their legallity either way just hasn't been determined.
It doesn't mean they can be used or can't be used.
It's just that in cases like that typically you would err on the side caution before using a untested product and just treat it as not approved until you find out otherwise.
But he's taking it to a extreme.
>Things that are not on the list are neither approved or not approved, their legallity either way just hasn't been determined.
That is not correct. Anything not on the approved cleaner/chemical list is not approved period. The never can be used list simply lists things that will never be legal as testing has shown they change the cover stock. I am all for common sense but is the USBC? They seem pretty divorced from reality rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic that is the sport of bowling.
-
They say sanding is allowed so assuming Abralon is illegal isn't necessarily correct. Only chemicals on the list can be used. Water isn't on the list.
I will use water much like a lot of bowlers will use whatever they want when at home.
Does it actually say chemicals anywhere? I've seen cleaners and polishes mentioned. While water can technically clean on its own, I don't think most people would think of it as a cleaner. Pretty sure they are just targeting actual cleaning products. Water also wouldn't alter the surface. As long as it is wiped off, it should be good to go. I agree with others who think that the whole thing is absurd. This is why everything has so many disclaimers these days. What happened to common sense?
I also don't think mixing water with simple green should be a problem. That is how it is intended to be used. Unless USBC specifically says it is not to be done, it should be fine. Do people want some thousand page rule book covering everything that could potentially come up?
-
They say sanding is allowed so assuming Abralon is illegal isn't necessarily correct. Only chemicals on the list can be used. Water isn't on the list.
I will use water much like a lot of bowlers will use whatever they want when at home.
Does it actually say chemicals anywhere. I've seen cleaners and polishes mentioned. While water can technically clean on its own, I don't think most people who think of it as a cleaner. Pretty sure they are just targeting actual cleaning products. Water also wouldn't alter the surface. As long as it is wiped off, it should be good to go. I agree with others who think that the whole thing is absurd. This is why everything has so many disclaimers these days. What happened to common sense?
I also don't think mixing water with simple green should be a problem. That is how it is intended to be used. Unless USBC specifically says it is not to be done, it should be fine. Do people want some thousand page rule book covering everything that could potentially come up?
Well I would ask the USBC directly but since I am boycotting them currently not fair to use their resources since I don't pay. Read that letter Mr. Murphy posted on the web site and with the US Open fiasco and talk of banning balls can't stand that guy and not giving them money until he is gone regardless if they show common sense on cleaning or not. That was just the first red flag for me that even following common sense and spirit might break rules regardless.
>Unless USBC specifically says it is not to be done, it should be fine.
I agree should be. Would be impossible to prove as well as long as don't use lane side (where I agree they should limit chemicals during competition) but don't like being told how I can clean my equipment in my house when the onerous should be on them to determine if cover stocks have been altered. The rule should be no chemical can alter a cover stock chemically ever (as it is currently) and then provide a safety list for informational purposes instead of a can only use these list (except during competition which I can buy) but since that might affect their bottom line (costs big money to get on the oligopoly approved list, high barrier to entry is invaluable) they won't change I am sure. Fair amount of money to be made on $2 an oz cleaners just like the printer market where the real money to be made is on the ink. Too lazy to calculate but with $2 an oz cleaners bet it doesn't take that long (few years maybe) before you have used more cleaner cost wise on the ball than the ball originally cost. Bet the margins are better as well (less R&D turnover for sure). Consumables are often where its at which is why most of cleaners and polishes these days are owned by the ball companies. Ron seems to want to lap up some of that money and thus back to the name of the thread.
-
Ball Cleaners/Polishes
Any cloth towel that is non-abrasive that doesn't modify the surface finish of the ball and contains no chemical additives will be acceptable for use during USBC certified competition. Here is a list of approved and not approved ball cleaners and polishes. For a product to be approved at anytime, the product must not soften the ball surface or leave a residue. If a product is not found on the list below, consider it to be NOT APPROVED either before, after, or during certified competition.
http://www.ballreviews.com/miscellaneous/link-for-approved-ball-cleaners-t243284.0.html
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:7JQQ3QIL1GMJ:bowlingballexchange.com/attachment.php
(edit: think this was the old version of the rules but they are very vague and ambiguous in the latest version)
-
The thing with SG is if, when the USBC did there testing to approve it, they followed the directions on the bottle, they added water or the sample they received was already at the proper level of water and concentrate.
They should use the produce as it’s prescribed to be used by the manufacturer.
-
The thing with SG is if, when the USBC did there testing to approve it, they followed the directions on the bottle, they added water or the sample they received was already at the proper level of water and concentrate.
They should use the produce as it’s prescribed to be used by the manufacturer.
Actually for some things they do recommend full strength on the bottle.
Directions for Use
Use as-is, or dilute with water. Using ambient temperature water saves energy. Spot test on a hidden area first.
http://simplegreen.com/products/all-purpose-cleaner/ (how to use tab)
I know SG will never change the coverstock no matter its strength or dilution. I know its in the spirit of the rules. My point is much like USBC itself their rules are sloppy. They deserve to die and only think they represent the sport when they are just killing it faster.
-
Hack, you really seem to spend a disproportionate amount of time/energy/posts on USBC for not being a member. Is this all just motivated by your love for the sport and drive to see it back to its glory days or by the hate in your heart?
We only have so many days/hours/minutes on this Earth and you seem to like spending them talking about USBC.
I'm curious about your psychology.....
Certainly I have my issues with the USBC that I don't like, as I think every poster here does as well, but I do enjoy Nationals/State tournaments and league bonding (I feel I get $21 of value for those things). I commend you for walking the walk and not paying dues to an organization you hate and speaking with your wallet but I'm simply seeking to understand the end-game here for you and what exactly you get out of all this. Is it just to hate on the USBC?
-
Hack, you really seem to spend a disproportionate amount of time/energy/posts on USBC for not being a member. Is this all just motivated by your love for the sport and drive to see it back to its glory days or by the hate in your heart?
We only have so many days/hours/minutes on this Earth and you seem to like spending them talking about USBC.
I'm curious about your psychology.....
Certainly I have my issues with the USBC that I don't like, as I think every poster here does as well, but I do enjoy Nationals/State tournaments and league bonding (I feel I get $21 of value for those things). I commend you for walking the walk and not paying dues to an organization you hate and speaking with your wallet but I'm simply seeking to understand the end-game here for you and what exactly you get out of all this. Is it just to hate on the USBC?
Honestly its more bored at work. But yeah not going to deny they have done some good in past but today's iteration seems more like a jobs program for getting paid more than your education is worth and in a general an old boy's club. In the end who cares (but me) what I think lol. Had my say now I'm chill. Think will avoid slagging them off going forward as you say only so much time and energy to use in one life lol.
-
Hack, you really seem to spend a disproportionate amount of time/energy/posts on USBC for not being a member. Is this all just motivated by your love for the sport and drive to see it back to its glory days or by the hate in your heart?
We only have so many days/hours/minutes on this Earth and you seem to like spending them talking about USBC.
I'm curious about your psychology.....
Certainly I have my issues with the USBC that I don't like, as I think every poster here does as well, but I do enjoy Nationals/State tournaments and league bonding (I feel I get $21 of value for those things). I commend you for walking the walk and not paying dues to an organization you hate and speaking with your wallet but I'm simply seeking to understand the end-game here for you and what exactly you get out of all this. Is it just to hate on the USBC?
Honestly its more bored at work. But yeah not going to deny they have done some good in past but today's iteration seems more like a jobs program for getting paid more than your education is worth and in a general an old boy's club. In the end who cares (but me) what I think lol. Had my say now I'm chill. Think will avoid slagging them off going forward as you say only so much time and energy to use in one life lol.
Fair enough.
-
>Things that are not on the list are neither approved or not approved, their legality either way just hasn't been determined.
That is not correct.
Yes, that is correct.
If something is not on the Approved, Non-Approved Products list. It hasn't been tested so it status has not been determined.
And as I said in that case you err on the side caution and treat it as not approved until you find out otherwise. which is the same as what you posted here:
If a product is not found on the list below, consider it to be NOT APPROVED either before, after, or during certified competition.
-
http://www.ballreviews.com/miscellaneous/link-for-approved-ball-cleaners-t243284.0.html
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:7JQQ3QIL1GMJ:bowlingballexchange.com/attachment.php
(edit: think this was the old version of the rules but they are very vague and ambiguous in the latest version)
Instead of those links to old threads here's places you should be looking for updated info.
Approved, Non-Approved Products
Need to know which products are approved or not approved for competition?
https://www.bowl.com/Equipment_Specs/Additional_Resources/Approved_Products/ (https://www.bowl.com/Equipment_Specs/Additional_Resources/Approved_Products/)
Approved Cleaners and Polishes
http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/usbcongress/bowl/equipandspecs/pdfs/Approved_cleaner_polish.pdf (http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/usbcongress/bowl/equipandspecs/pdfs/Approved_cleaner_polish.pdf)
Non-Approved Cleaners and Polishes
http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/usbcongress/bowl/equipandspecs/pdfs/Non_approved_cleaner_polish.pdf (http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/usbcongress/bowl/equipandspecs/pdfs/Non_approved_cleaner_polish.pdf)
-
http://www.ballreviews.com/miscellaneous/link-for-approved-ball-cleaners-t243284.0.html
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:7JQQ3QIL1GMJ:bowlingballexchange.com/attachment.php
(edit: think this was the old version of the rules but they are very vague and ambiguous in the latest version)
Instead of those links to old threads here's places you should be looking for updated info.
Approved, Non-Approved Products
Need to know which products are approved or not approved for competition?
https://www.bowl.com/Equipment_Specs/Additional_Resources/Approved_Products/ (https://www.bowl.com/Equipment_Specs/Additional_Resources/Approved_Products/)
Approved Cleaners and Polishes
http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/usbcongress/bowl/equipandspecs/pdfs/Approved_cleaner_polish.pdf (http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/usbcongress/bowl/equipandspecs/pdfs/Approved_cleaner_polish.pdf)
Non-Approved Cleaners and Polishes
http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/usbcongress/bowl/equipandspecs/pdfs/Non_approved_cleaner_polish.pdf (http://usbcongress.http.internapcdn.net/usbcongress/bowl/equipandspecs/pdfs/Non_approved_cleaner_polish.pdf)
Don't even care at this point. Was just planning on using my diluted only with water SG at home regardless, as good luck proving not using full strength and morally completely in the the spirit of the sport (less likely to leave a film than full strength which is legal at any time so even more in spirit imo). Just though it was silly but the whole talk of banning balls that were formerly legal when they are 10 years too late doing their job and only do so after I build my arsenal. Well that is a deal breaker. But neither here nor there.