BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: MI 2 AZ on July 24, 2019, 07:36:35 PM
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I know the ball is supposed to roll into the pocket but what happens when the ball is still hooking when it enters the pins? Why is one better than the other?
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Rolling into the pocket=Ball has fully transitioned, and is stable.
Hooking into the pocket=Ball still in transition, and has not fully stabilized.
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Not what you asked exactly, but important point. It is more important that a ball has continuation entering the pocket, than how much hook and entry angle can be created. Continuation occurs when a ball still has side roll energy to release.
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A friend asked me that question about why is it bad for the ball to be hooking into the pocket instead of rolling. Can anyone explain the physics aspect of it (that's what he's looking for and I can't explain it).
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Less deflection if I'm not mistaken. When the ball goes into the roll phase its going end over end in one direction. When the ball is still hooking it's still trying to change direction and will have less hitting/driving power.
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Less deflection if I'm not mistaken. When the ball goes into the roll phase its going end over end in one direction. When the ball is still hooking it's still trying to change direction and will have less hitting/driving power.
+1 on deflection as have that problem myself sometimes with my high axis tilt and the ball not getting into a roll (damn 5 pins). Just wanted someone else to mention first :).
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You will also be prone to leave the 8 pin on good pocket hits (and other weird leaves), because the ball's path through the pin deck is not straight and stable. The pin mix, caused through the ball's different axis tilt, also causes a different pin mix "than usual". Probably the same symptoms as an entry angle that is too steep.
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Ok, I received a reply by email which he would like me to post here, so here goes:
Interesting but nobody has nailed it yet...could it be that the best carry is when max energy is transferred from ball to pins? Or maybe a certain amount of energy is best with too much or too little causing corner pins and 8s and 9 s...focus should prob be on actual energy transferred instead of ball rotation/direction (which is what skid- hook-roll makes us think about). If energy is the right focus we must remember there are two kinds involved, namely, rotational and forward directional. to complicate things, rotational energy can be in one of many different directions at pin contact maybe there is a preferred rotational direction that is best ( this is different than entry angle). Conjecture: I think that when rotational energy gets real close to zero but there is still forward motion then this is what most of us mean by start of roll out.
Ps. I say focus on energy instead of momentum because momentum gets speed involved and may unnecessarily complicate things! I would like to see data that correlates energy transfer to pin carry... If we could somehow do this in the bowling lab we really got something to "shoot for" ... i.e. How do we get the best energy transfer number (determined in lab) at pin contact time.
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I think you have got it nailed. Carry is sbout minimizing defection. Deflection is reduced when a ball is still releasing energy changing direction when it enters the pocket. Entry angle doesn't minimize deflection unless the ball is still releasing energy. Therefore roll, or hook are irrelevant terms. The very old description of skid, hook, roll is still valid. The difference is that in todays high friction environment roll out is common, but harder to identify because of the impact of very strong cores.
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You cannot take speed out of it. That is one of the major factors in calculating the balls total kinetic energy to begin with.
Angular momentum has to be correct, but it also has to have it in the right place, at the right time, in the right amount, and for the right reason.
Too many variables.
Lots of difference between rolling into the pins with angular momentum derived from the balls rotational energy and a ball entering the pins while still in the hook phase of transition.
The strike pocket is on the 17 1/2 board. But, it wont do you any good if you get there 3 inches too soon, or 3 inches too late, or at the wrong angle for the wrong reason.
It all has to happen the right way, at the right place, at the right time, and for the right reason.
When you have round objects interacting with each other, then other round objects interacting with again other round objects, the sum total can be effected by nth’s of a degree of difference of the initial contact of the two original objects, i.e. the ball and the headpin.
ANY change, of any variable thereof, can have an alternative outcome.
Then, after you figure all this out, you have to start taking into account the balls C.O.R. numbers to truly be able calculate the maximum energy transfer possible.
And why.
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Anyone who is interested in a very good detailed study could do a lot worse than get their hands on a copy of this.
https://www.amazon.com/Bowling-Beyond-Basics-Really-Happening-ebook/dp/B07FK3XVRD
I am a bit of a math and bowling nerd and really enjoyed it.
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Speed is what allows a high rev rate on a high friction environment. It is an important variable in the modern game, but not necessary to include, unless you are explaining how to avoid roll out
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Anyone who is interested in a very good detailed study could do a lot worse than get their hands on a copy of this.
https://www.amazon.com/Bowling-Beyond-Basics-Really-Happening-ebook/dp/B07FK3XVRD
I am a bit of a math and bowling nerd and really enjoyed it.
I have this book and and haven't finished reading it! Man O man! There's a ton of math in this book for sure!
Who knew??!!
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I'm sure most here are in leagues like myself. This post is pretty good except someone has to tell the league teams that always have high handicap why they seem to throw their ball straight down the middle even with a few bounces and strike or they will miss the pocket entirely and still strike, LOL
Admit, we all see that and its aggravating! LOL
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I'm sure most here are in leagues like myself. This post is pretty good except someone has to tell the league teams that always have high handicap why they seem to throw their ball straight down the middle even with a few bounces and strike or they will miss the pocket entirely and still strike, LOL
Admit, we all see that and its aggravating! LOL
Bowling on sport shot is easy way to fix that.