Post by: gsr on October 17, 2008, 01:30:07 AM
I know there are some hackers out there drilling in their home with no idea of what they are doing and some that just want to drill their own equipment, but there are also guys like me that have a large customer base that know what we are doing. Because you are IBPSIA certified, does not mean you are a good driller. There is one in my state that is certified and is considered by many to be a hack and to be fair there is also another one that is very good. Why do you have to have a store front to be recogized as a legitimate driller? Now the manufacturers are telling everyone to go to a certified IBPSIA shop or to a brick and mortor shop to have you equipment drilled. The way bowling centers are closing, many of the shops will have to setup in their homes if they want to continue their trade. I will say that I am not alone. In my state I know of 4 others that drill from their homes and they are very good at what they do.
How many of you drill from you home, have a tax id and consider yourself a business ? Maybe we should get together and form our own organization. In numbers there is power.
Edited on 10/17/2008 9:35 AM
Post by: los2003 on October 17, 2008, 09:56:57 AM
Post by: Stan on October 17, 2008, 12:58:17 PM
Like the idea of starting some kind of organization. I mean you have plumbers, electricians, accountants, lawyers, doctors, dentist, hair dressers and others working from their home with no problems. Just because we feel more comfortable drilling from our homes, mainly because their are no openings in the centers close to us, why shoulod we be treated different than anyone else.
As far as equipment, I started working with a friend of mine in his shop many years ago. The center closed down, he moved and I purchased all his stuff. Obviously, he gave me a good deal. Since then, I have updated everything.
Post by: pin-chaser on October 17, 2008, 07:47:07 PM
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Post by: Mike Austin on October 17, 2008, 08:32:19 PM
Many/most of the guys drilling from home ARE hacks. Manufacturers don't want you going to hacks. Hacks make everybody's equipment look like crap.
Every situation is different, but the manufacturers need the in center shops to stay open. Generally speaking they are the ones that are going to move the most equipment, have the most visibility, are where most bowlers are going to see the equipment. Most of your hacks are not IBPSIA certified, ideally if you go to a certified driller, he has at least some basic knowledge and the ability to get more. Most hacks dont give a damn about whether they are any good or not, they just want your money.
MOST basement guys dont have a good reputation because the "real" shops bad mouth them as a way to keep business. After all the basement guys are probably not making a living at the pro shop business. Its easier to bad mouth the competition than to try and out work them/do better work than them.
MOST basement guys are not ethical at all, unlike you gsr. They try to sell right in the center where a shop is, they don't care about anybody but themselves most of the time. Hell, I had other pro shops try to sell in my center, they got escorted from the property, once with a police escort, but that's another thread.
I have/had toyed with this same idea, doing just what gsr is doing, doing this here in Oklahoma City after my move from Houston. I haven't done it for multiple reasons. The main one is my friendships with Anne Marie Duggan and Donnie Cassel. They are the two best drillers around here, I don't want to pull any of their business. We have been friends many years, and wouldn't want this to come between us. If the economy and bowling scene looked better, I would still consider getting back into the business, I feel confident that I would have a healthy business in less than a year.
I have reread this, and don't want to come off as anti basement guy, although generally I don't have much respect for them. Really I am anti hack driller. It is so hard to make a decent living in this industry, hacks just undercut competent drillers and make things that much worse. Every situation is different, but generally speaking, basement guys are hacks, but there are always exceptions. gsr, you have put in your time and go about drilling in an ethical, respectable manner. Good luck to you. I cannot say that I am not jealous. I miss my pro shop.
Edited on 10/17/2008 8:36 PM
Post by: rockerbowler18 on October 17, 2008, 08:37:52 PM
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Post by: Stan on October 17, 2008, 11:06:55 PM
Some of the shops will complain about guys like me and my response is basically, if you do quality work, they will come, regardless of price ($20 more). There is only one shop in my state that is full time, the rest have day jobs and work the shop only at night. If you are losing customers to me, then stop complaining and sharpen your skills. Do better marketing campaigns. Don't try to pay your rent by selling 6 balls. I also do not solicit in bowling centers. Like gsr, I also agree that the guy in shop has the only right to sell equipment in that center. My advertising is word of mouth by my customers. I do quality work at a reasonable price. I am not cheap, but like I said only a few dollars less than a shop in center. And to be clear, the majority of my customers are high average bowlers who are looking for quality consistant work. One of them has been the high average in my state for a few years.
One last point. Your state may be different, but we lost 9 bowling centers in the last 10 years and I hear some others are in trouble. Stand alone shops are very expensive to operate and the centers that are still open already have shops. Where do we go to practice our trade ? Most of the guys like me have owned shops in centers but have only one option if they want to continue to run a shop. I feel sorry for you not being able to do what you love. I know it is your choice, but still tough on you. All basement guys are not hacks and thanks for aknowledging that.
Post by: JessN16 on October 18, 2008, 12:08:19 AM
I don't have plans to branch out right now because I'd have to move up from my current drill rig (which cost around $700 including the bits) to something of several thousand dollars. Plus, I don't want people at my house all hours of my off-time. And I'd have to get training before I felt really comfortable.
However, I think a hobbyist "union" is a good idea. Except for very few examples, most pro shops I know right now are only open a couple of hours during the day, mostly during league time. If people want equipment drilled they're going to have to start coming to the backyard shops.
That's not to say backyard drilling won't work, either. I also put together golf clubs and most of the guys I know who are doing that are also working from home.
Jess
Post by: Walking E on October 18, 2008, 12:34:39 AM
...Oops, wrong thread.
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Post by: fluff33 on October 19, 2008, 09:57:27 PM
Post by: walterrayseggs on October 20, 2008, 11:29:57 AM
Post by: SpareK on October 20, 2008, 01:10:59 PM
A>A
Post by: Badger856 on October 20, 2008, 01:20:59 PM
Post by: BShep on October 20, 2008, 01:37:31 PM
Post by: Stan on October 20, 2008, 02:21:18 PM
Post by: novawagonmaster on October 20, 2008, 04:50:27 PM
I have drilled balls for my three sons (no joke!), my wife, and two team members. I am not out to take business away from the local shops. The two guys I have drilled for have odd working hours, so it is hard for them to get into the pro shop. They sought my services. I did not approach them.
I have no plans to expand my business. I highly value the little free time I currently have
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Jon (in Ohio)
aka: Rico Swervé~
Post by: Mike Austin on October 20, 2008, 04:57:09 PM
quote:
I think it is the responsibility of the bowling center to make sure the person working for them or the person leasing the shop are not hacks. Too many times the center only cares about the income from leasing the shop and not the quality of the product coming out of the shop.
I agree with this. I was lucky. I had bowling centers "bidding" on me to put my shop in their center. One offered me free rent to move there. The bowling center I was at, lowered my rent to keep me. The right pro shop operator definitely enhances the bowling center. Some proprietors don't see this equation. Some shop operators pay $600-$800 a month in rent. Ouch.
Stan, you are right about the hacks. Just because they are in a bowling center doesn't make them a good driller. Like I said I am not against a reputable "garage guy". There just aren't very many of them. MOST are hacks that think because they have a drill press, they can drill balls. Also, many people deserve a hack drill, they only want to spend the money that a hack drill commands. Too many people don't realize/know that their fit sucks. They haven't hooked up with anybody that has made it better. "My thumb always tears/bleeds" "My fingers always hurt"......
Post by: strikealot on October 20, 2008, 04:59:17 PM
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Post by: Gunny on October 20, 2008, 09:31:20 PM
Post by: Smash49 on October 20, 2008, 09:42:07 PM
When I bought the center in Duncan the Pro??? Shop here was medieval. Crude and just plain bad. When balls were plugged they were clear or colored with food coloring. The spinner??? was some kind of weird thing that I have no idea where the parts came from. All the inserts were kept in a tackle box. Most of the balls sold were x-outs, blems or bonanzas. I found some really sad things in the shop. The strangest was women not understanding why I would not let them change their kids diapers in there. There were plenty of reasons for the condition, most of which I think was lack of caring about what was produced. That has all changed. The customers had become accustomed to garbage and are now learning the difference. Just because someone mans the pro shop in the center doesn't mean he is any good. On the flip side I have known some really good garage guy's. Ron House comes to mind when he was in Virginia. The hardest thing is to find the right person. Eventually I hope reputation wind out.
Smash49
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Smash49
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Post by: Brickguy221 on October 20, 2008, 10:08:34 PM
quote:
The right pro shop operator definitely enhances the bowling center.
Mike, you are dead on with that statement. Blvd. Bowl for example would probably barely exist today if at all were it not for Anne Marie Duggan's pro shop there. Also Donnie Cassel has been an asset to Heritage Lanes and they have gained business because of that.
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"Whenever I feel the urge to exercise I lie down until the feeling passes away."
Brick
Post by: laner7pin on October 20, 2008, 10:36:08 PM
quote:
I drill my own stuff from home. But only for myself. I have two drill bits, 31/32 and 1 1/4. Which is all I need. I have a spinner as well.
What happens when you need to add a balance hole? Or is everything drilled the same where no balance hole is needed?
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Official Brunswick and Hammer ball whore!