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Author Topic: How to fix bowling by Brian Voss  (Read 20350 times)

morpheus

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How to fix bowling by Brian Voss
« on: February 17, 2016, 06:02:32 PM »
This seems to be stirring some conversation on social media...not saying I agree with all these points but I respect his perspective.

https://www.11thframe.com/news/article/8199
#AFutureForMembership #WhoDoesUSBCWorkFor

 

avabob

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Re: How to fix bowling by Brian Voss
« Reply #61 on: February 22, 2016, 10:22:05 AM »
Bowling became a power game 35 years ago with the rise of Roth Holman Webb and a bunch of lessor skilled cup wristed bowlers.  Everyone thing since then has simply been refinements in the power game as players learned to combine ball speed and high rev rates through changes in style.  Going back to 3 piece polyester balls would not change to balance from power to finesse unless accompanied by very long oil patterns.   

The power game became dominant because of the transition to very hard lane finishes that were oiled much shorter than the traditional lacquer finish.   Power is not rewarded, regardless of the type of bowling ball, without extremes friction increases from the front to the back of the lane.  Too much friction early and the high rev release either rolls out or heads to the left gutter.  Too much oil down the lane and the high rev release skids to far and wont hit. 

What the resin ball has done is allow bowlers to over power the oil because the balls soak so much off the lane.     

leftybowler70

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Re: How to fix bowling by Brian Voss
« Reply #62 on: February 22, 2016, 11:38:02 AM »
+1000000 avabob, I couldn't agree with you more.... This is exactly what the game has evolved into.

txbowler

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Re: How to fix bowling by Brian Voss
« Reply #63 on: February 22, 2016, 12:06:27 PM »
It's only my 2 cents, but I think oil developers are "trying" to make the oil last longer.  Newer oils take longer to transition and are "slicker".

If a oil (conditioner) is ever refined to where it cannot be removed from the lane by the ball, then you might see a change.

I don't believe I'll ever see that in my lifetime. 

There have also been some developments of "heavier" oils and putting even more volume on a lane.  But you see comments like "I don't like heavier oils, I can't burn in a shot".

You will never please everyone.  Everyone wants it to be to their advantage.

But I will say, when a bowler drops a ball at the foul line and gets maybe 6-8 revs on it and at 42 ft the weight block kicks in and the ball hits like Tommy Jones threw it,  that the coverstock is making a huge difference.

Bowlers today with weak rev rates can compete because the ball does the work for them at the pins.  It is what they teach you now.  Roll the ball and let it do the work for you.  If you hit on the ball, you need the speed to prevent the ball from over-reacting on friction.  When you have both speeds and revs, you get the best of both worlds.

A bowler can be in the 500 rev club, but if his top ball speed is 13-14 mph; on any short pattern, he is toast.  Consequently, if you are in the 150-200 rev club on a 45 ft pattern and throw it 19-20 mph; good luck getting it to hook.

Cornerpin

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Re: How to fix bowling by Brian Voss
« Reply #64 on: February 22, 2016, 12:27:36 PM »

But I will say, when a bowler drops a ball at the foul line and gets maybe 6-8 revs on it and at 42 ft the weight block kicks in and the ball hits like Tommy Jones threw it,  that the coverstock is making a huge difference.

Bowlers today with weak rev rates can compete because the ball does the work for them at the pins.  It is what they teach you now.  Roll the ball and let it do the work for you.  If you hit on the ball, you need the speed to prevent the ball from over-reacting on friction.  When you have both speeds and revs, you get the best of both worlds.

A bowler can be in the 500 rev club, but if his top ball speed is 13-14 mph; on any short pattern, he is toast.  Consequently, if you are in the 150-200 rev club on a 45 ft pattern and throw it 19-20 mph; good luck getting it to hook.

+1000

itsallaboutme

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Re: How to fix bowling by Brian Voss
« Reply #65 on: February 22, 2016, 12:53:40 PM »
"lessor skilled cup wristed bowlers" -spoken just like Mr. Voss

BradleyInIrving

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Re: How to fix bowling by Brian Voss
« Reply #66 on: February 22, 2016, 01:31:26 PM »
Adult bumper bowling (blocked lane conditions) isn't helping much either.. Each phase in bowling (rubber, plastic, urethane, reactive/particle) has/had it's blocked lane conditions..


Overhand

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Re: How to fix bowling by Brian Voss
« Reply #67 on: February 22, 2016, 02:13:03 PM »
Not the perfect solution, but how about heavier pins?  Easier to implement and would require solid pocket hits to carry strikes consistently.

avabob

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Re: How to fix bowling by Brian Voss
« Reply #68 on: February 22, 2016, 03:33:27 PM »
We have the technology and the desire on the part of top level bowlers to put out challenging conditions.  The change to slicker higher viscosity oils, along with the trend of much longer oil patterns is helping the situation.  Notice the trend at the highest pro levels to much lower axis rotations resulting in more forward roll and smoother smaller change of direction off the oil.  Long formats where the players really open up the oil pattern are going to favor the high speed high rev guys, but that has been the case for 25 years.  Two handers are just a special case of power players.  Those who can repeat shots, and more importantly modify their axis rotation when necessary are going to have success in a power players environment. 

I have said for years that the problem I have with resin balls has nothing to do with their hitting power, but rather their ability to blow up patterns way to quickly.    Power is supplied by the bowler, coefficient of friction of the shell is what translates the power either effectively or not effectively. 

joeyyant

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Re: How to fix bowling by Brian Voss
« Reply #69 on: February 22, 2016, 03:35:51 PM »
Not the perfect solution, but how about heavier pins?  Easier to implement and would require solid pocket hits to carry strikes consistently.

Should be "easy" to regulate as well. Today has become who can carry better. Look at the match between Duke and Jesper. Heavier would still hurt some of the Rev challenged player but will make spare shooting more important and prominent. 

txbowler

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Re: How to fix bowling by Brian Voss
« Reply #70 on: February 22, 2016, 03:47:55 PM »
A thought just popped into my head.

Is this really "true fully" all about league?

Top tier bowlers in "most" regions of the country can find sport conditions to bowl on in either tournaments or practice in preparation for tournaments.

And I wonder if bowlers are frustrated that during the weekly leagues, where a huge amount of side action may be available, is decided by who can carry that night.

And also have to "put up with" bowlers "beating" them because of the THS.

I really wonder, is this more about league?

avabob

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Re: How to fix bowling by Brian Voss
« Reply #71 on: February 22, 2016, 03:53:35 PM »
I am a 68 year old stroker.  I am much more competitive with a broad range of scratch bowlers on flatter patterns.  Having said that, when I am sharp and make good shots the only guys who beat me on the THS are guys who can beat me on the sport patterns too. 

Nothing has really changed that much in 40 years except the level of scoring.  In the early 70's some guy would carry a couple of beakers and a Brooklyn to win a side pot with a 220 game.  Today a guy who normally sprays the ball all over will be the blind squirrel who finds the nut for a game and wins the pot with a 260. 

Single games and short formats have never determined who a good bowler is.

bergman

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Re: How to fix bowling by Brian Voss
« Reply #72 on: February 22, 2016, 04:18:03 PM »
In regards to the past (pre-1977), the ABC was quite strict about lane conditioning.
In those days stacking oil in the middle of the lane (blocking/crowning) was illegal.
In fact, many of you who were around prior to 1977 can surely remember how many times the ABC had rejected "honor" scores, because of lane blocking.

Granted, the ABC
didn't have the technology that the USBC has today in measuring the lateral distribution of oil on the lane. Instead, they mostly relied on the old "finger test" .
It really wasn't until the ABC dramatically eased the rules that lane blocking/crowning
became the "norm", at least as far as what we  refer to as the typical house shot  today. The primary reason for the change was due to the fact that bowling proprietors were the ones getting the flak from their league bowlers when their honor scores were being rejected. The other reason being that back then, if a league bowler shot say, a 300, the lanes had to be shut down and the bowler's equipment was "confiscated" until an ABC inspector came to the site to verify if in fact, the score was bowled under the rules. This became somewhat of a logistical
problem for both, the ABC and the proprietor.

So with all due respect to those who believe that lane blocking/crowning was always
part of the game, I know from experience that it was not. Prior to 1977, it was much, much harder to get the ball to the pocket under the ABC's lane conditioning rules in effect at that time. The proof can also be found in the comparison of data as it relates to the number of honor scores bowled before and after 1977. Since then, there has been a dramatic increase. Some of it due to today's balls but a lot of it is also due to
the relaxation of the lane conditioning rules.

The "THS" was a whole different animal in those days. It was a lot tougher one.

avabob

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Re: How to fix bowling by Brian Voss
« Reply #73 on: February 22, 2016, 04:57:33 PM »
The problem with ABC efforts in that era is that they we focusing on players using oil as hold area and didn't notice the young guys coming out who were using the dry to swing the ball.  All they wanted was plenty of back ends
. Tha is why the short oil mandate of the 80's was such a colossal failure.  The system of bowling that replaced it could have worked had the anticipated resin and upped the outside oil to 8-10 units.  However nothing could completely halt the scoring increase because not only was tech better but so was bowling skill
« Last Edit: February 23, 2016, 09:27:33 AM by avabob »

bergman

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Re: How to fix bowling by Brian Voss
« Reply #74 on: February 22, 2016, 06:55:27 PM »
Very true.

BowlingforSoup

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Re: How to fix bowling by Brian Voss
« Reply #75 on: February 22, 2016, 08:59:47 PM »
Friction is the main problem.The 3 units of oil rule is from the 80s and early 90s with urethane.With resin it should be triple that.And take away these 12:1 houseshots would be a start.I have no problem with 2 handers or two finger bowlers.As an old bowler 55 years old its just getting hard to deal with all the friction.I just bowl one night a week now.I used to bowl at least 3 leagues.I am sure there's more than just Voss thinking what hes thinking.He is just the only one speaking out.I have been threw all the changes.Rubber,polyester,urethane and now resin.I think resin has made the biggest impact on bowling.Not sure if there's a cure,But would at least like to see the USBC attempt something other than take the awards away.I would gladly pay the 5$ increase if they would actually enforce some rules and lane patterns that are fair.