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Author Topic: How to fix bowling by Brian Voss  (Read 15277 times)

morpheus

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How to fix bowling by Brian Voss
« on: February 17, 2016, 06:02:32 PM »
This seems to be stirring some conversation on social media...not saying I agree with all these points but I respect his perspective.

https://www.11thframe.com/news/article/8199
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avabob

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Re: How to fix bowling by Brian Voss
« Reply #46 on: February 19, 2016, 01:19:38 PM »
The technological revolution started 65 years ago when lacquer lane finish replaced shellac.  Scoring levels plummeted until lane men learned how to oil the lacquer to help restore the game to reward the fundamentals employed during the shellac era.  The second stage of the revolution came when urethane lane finish replaced lacquer.   Again lane men changed oiling techniques to help minimize the impact of the new finishes.  The introduction of resin was yet another major technological change. 

Every one of the above changes impacted what had been considered fundamentals prior to the change.  In addition each of these changes made many top level bowlers non competitive in the new environment. 

Don Carter and Dick Weber adopted straight games that was rewarded on lacquer and made the looping full roller of Ned Day obsolete.  Roth and Holman high revving power games made the style of players like Neff, Hudson and Stefanich obsolete. 

The introduction of the resin ball rewarded more powerful releases in terms of ball speed than would have been optimal with pure urethane or polyester.  This lead to rewarding releases that could maximize both revs and ball speed, something that wasn't necessary with the non resin equipment. 

I don't think two handed will take over the game for a couple of reasons.  First while it may be easier to create revs that way, it is more difficult to be consistent, and is harder on the body.  In addition, while many patterns reward a high rev rate, not so many reward the big hook.  Of the two handers I have seen, only Belmo is adept at changing axis rotation to match different oil lengths

trash heap

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Re: How to fix bowling by Brian Voss
« Reply #47 on: February 19, 2016, 01:36:41 PM »
Reactive Resin made the biggest change to the sport. This coverstock is totally responsible for the higher scoring. It gave power to those who didn't have it before. Compared to Urethane this ball would tear through the rack.

Just buying a Reactive Resin Ball, a bowler's strike percentage was automatically going to increase.

That statement holds true to this day. You will not strike as much with a Urethane or Plastic Ball as you do with a Reactive Resin Ball.

 
Talkin' Trash!

SVstar34

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Re: How to fix bowling by Brian Voss
« Reply #48 on: February 19, 2016, 03:30:08 PM »
Nick Smith (Brunsnick) has a video up on Facebook called the Traditionalists Worst Nightmare that I feel I laughed a little too hard at
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avabob

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Re: How to fix bowling by Brian Voss
« Reply #49 on: February 19, 2016, 04:04:17 PM »
Reactive resin has nothing to do with power.  It is a higher friction surface on the dry.  Power is totally supplied by the bowler in terms of rev rate.  Without the rev rate supplied by the bowler, friction potential is worthless.  How resin changed the game was in allowing players to combine their already high rev rates with more ball speed to over power lane conditions without giving up carrying power. 

The ability to carry was certainly enhanced with resin, but without conducive oil patterns resin was no advantage. 

Stormroto22

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Re: How to fix bowling by Brian Voss
« Reply #50 on: February 19, 2016, 07:36:41 PM »
One of his issues if I remember right is that older people can't compete with younger people in the sport, what sport do you know of where a 20 year old can't be in better shape and neat a 50 year old? Not many if any. Every sport has been evolved and 2 handed has slowly evolved in bowlin . It's going to happen and no one is going to change that. Ej Tackett throws father and more revs than some 2 handers so what do we have to measure a person's revs and determine if they can participate in a tournament?

t1buck

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Re: How to fix bowling by Brian Voss
« Reply #51 on: February 19, 2016, 08:30:01 PM »
Last season number where about 1.4 million members (that included Adult & youth).

morpheus

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Re: How to fix bowling by Brian Voss
« Reply #52 on: February 19, 2016, 10:30:00 PM »
Last season number where about 1.4 million members (that included Adult & youth).

Just curious...how did you obtain that information?
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t1buck

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Re: How to fix bowling by Brian Voss
« Reply #53 on: February 20, 2016, 07:37:51 PM »
Those where the numbers USBC was talking earlier this season.

BackToBasics

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Re: How to fix bowling by Brian Voss
« Reply #54 on: February 21, 2016, 10:51:04 AM »
Reactive resin has nothing to do with power.  It is a higher friction surface on the dry.  Power is totally supplied by the bowler in terms of rev rate.  Without the rev rate supplied by the bowler, friction potential is worthless.  How resin changed the game was in allowing players to combine their already high rev rates with more ball speed to over power lane conditions without giving up carrying power. 

The ability to carry was certainly enhanced with resin, but without conducive oil patterns resin was no advantage. 

I'm sorry, this couldn't be farther from the truth and anyone who's thrown both on similar conditions will know this (which I know you have so I'm surprised at this).  Given similar playing conditions, resin allows significantly more area, power and strike percentage.  Even greater than urethane on short oil.   

I still occasionally use urethane in league and I know I can pull out a 220 because I won't miss the pocket.  But the lack of carry even on slightly bad shots is not even in the same zip code as a slightly bad shot with resin.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2016, 10:59:07 AM by BackToBasics »

JustRico

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Re: How to fix bowling by Brian Voss
« Reply #55 on: February 21, 2016, 11:23:55 AM »
Voss wants the game to return to when HE had an advantage...only problem he's past his prime and cannot accept that FACT
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xrayjay

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Re: How to fix bowling by Brian Voss
« Reply #56 on: February 21, 2016, 11:47:50 AM »
Voss wants the game to return to when HE had an advantage...only problem he's past his prime and cannot accept that FACT

that's the best short of it. In our league, everyone pretty much said the same thing.

"Charlie" this 62 years young scratch bowler said it best. "he should raise is belt over his waist line, grab his balls and bowl. Look who won the Japan Cup, it was the old guy."
Does a round object have sides? I say yes, pizza has triangles..

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JustRico

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Re: How to fix bowling by Brian Voss
« Reply #57 on: February 21, 2016, 02:31:36 PM »
It's sad but he's now a bitter ex superstar
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Pinbuster

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Re: How to fix bowling by Brian Voss
« Reply #58 on: February 21, 2016, 07:13:19 PM »
Of course everything I will say is my opinion and not that of any sponsor.  :)

I believe two handed bowling is an outgrowth of the current technology. I do not believe that style would work with pancake core balls, rubber and plastic coverstocks, wood lanes, using old conditioner, old stripping methods.
 
Whether these two handers will still be able to bowl when they are 50 to 60 and getting stiff remains to be seen, but they are currently shining bright on the national scene.

Time marches on and I donít believe we could go back to the old conditions. The cat is out of the bag.
 
You canít argue that bowling was much more popular when rubber and plastic balls were the norm. At that time you had to keep your speed down on most conditions or you got no reaction at all. There were bowlers around here at that time who could slow hook the lane but it was nearly impossible to get a consistent reaction.  Certain fundamentals were needed to score well and most bowlers physically could do those fundamentals.
 
I donít believe even when I was 16 I had the flexibility to do what they do as two handers.
 
Voss was a great bowler and champion. I donít think he is bitter so much as he loves the game, he has seen its participation drop 75%, and feels that the current scoring environment is a major factor in that decline.

Personally I believe bowling at that time was somewhat a fad, had reached its pinnacle, and changing culture in America has driven down participation more than the scoring environment or two handers.

DrBob806

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Re: How to fix bowling by Brian Voss
« Reply #59 on: February 21, 2016, 08:56:23 PM »

 

Personally I believe bowling at that time was somewhat a fad, had reached its pinnacle, and changing culture in America has driven down participation more than the scoring environment or two handers.


I think that's it in a nutshell. There are way too many other forms of organized recreation for youth, and some of those want/ask year round participation. Throw in a Play Station or X Box, there's less and less people bowling.

bergman

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Re: How to fix bowling by Brian Voss
« Reply #60 on: February 21, 2016, 09:27:55 PM »
Pinbuster: You raise some good points.  The 2-handed style, is much more physically taxing, which could dramatically reduce the maximum age that bowlers could still be  competitive, especially at the professional level.