Post by: Sn on December 08, 2005, 02:15:48 PM
Due to some skin problem on his arms he can't wear a wrist guard but his wrist is strong enough to hold straight.
However, his fingers are weak so he can't do much finger lift.
I've read Ron Clifton's tips on the bowlers' release but that may not be suitable for my friend as it's too advanced skill. It's difficult to teach a beginner to cock and cup the wrist and to uncock it and uncup it at the right time.
I think I should just teach him a release that require less energy and hand to execute, yet he'll enjoy the fun playing hook bowling. Also the release shouldn't create much axis tilt. I don't want him to spin the ball and think it's right to do it.
Any suggestions on how to teach this beginner?
I have no clues at all.
Thanks!
Post by: TWOHAND834 on December 08, 2005, 10:39:27 PM
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Steven Vance
Atlanta (Buford), GA
Pro Shop Operator
Advanced Bowling Solutions
If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!
Post by: mrbowlingnut on December 08, 2005, 10:39:32 PM
on edit my thoery on handshakes is not directed at the other poster it does work but it is not as good as the underhand spiral method.
Edited on 12/8/2005 11:31 PM
Post by: TWOHAND834 on December 08, 2005, 11:01:34 PM
--------------------
Steven Vance
Atlanta (Buford), GA
Pro Shop Operator
Advanced Bowling Solutions
If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!
Post by: TWOHAND834 on December 08, 2005, 11:25:41 PM
I did not mean to come out rude. That was my bad. The handshake was taught to me years ago as well. So, we were both actually taught in the same manner. I learned the football method about 2 years ago from Chuck Garnder who was doing Track clinics at the time here in Atlanta. When he showed me that method. I was like, "WOW!!!" Alot of people would not think of using footballs to teach someone how to bowl. But I was completely stunned at the results and I currently use that method when teaching lessons myself. So far, I have had nothing but positive feedback. My apologies to you for coming across rude earlier.
--------------------
Steven Vance
Atlanta (Buford), GA
Pro Shop Operator
Advanced Bowling Solutions
If anyone out there is worried about the scores being too high, try duckpin!!
Post by: dizzyfugu on December 09, 2005, 04:14:10 AM
What I'd advise, personally, is to do some wrist training with weights (2-4kg, depending on size) and some finger training with a hand impander or a rubber pressing ring. This will also help developing power for the release, but takes some time. But some minutes daily training can be helpful, though.
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DizzyFugu --- Reporting from Germany
Team "X": http://homepage.mac.com/timlinked/
"All that we see or seem, is but a dream within a dream..." - Edgar Allen Poe
Post by: Matt Fortney on December 09, 2005, 05:03:09 AM
matt
Post by: supernoodle on December 09, 2005, 06:17:03 AM
The feeling he is after is as if his hand is "Splitting" the bowling ball.Once he has mastered this and you can see the ball rolling in (As close as possible and not spinning) a straight line,then progress onto the handshake which will get his hand round the side of the ball which will cause the ball to hook.
After "Spinning" the ball when I was young for quite a while,I tried this approach (Endorsed my Fred Borden) with a Plastic White Dot and I learned how to bowl a hook ball within a couple of weeks.
I hope this helps,whatever happens just make sure you friend knows that practice makes perfect.Good luck.
Post by: CoachJim on December 09, 2005, 06:32:22 AM
Edited on 12/9/2005 7:22 AM
Post by: killswitch66 on December 09, 2005, 06:39:47 AM
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Brunswick
Ultimate Inferno
Ebonite
Prime Time
Lane #1
Uranium Pearl
as you can see, im not sold on a brand of ball (yet). Im still trying to find the right brand for me.
VIVA LA METAL MILITIA!
\m/
Post by: Sn on December 09, 2005, 08:02:31 AM
Actually I don't understand what it's like to throw an "underhand spiral" because both my friend and I have never played football. (Well, no one knows to play football in Hong Kong)
Is there any clips or pictures on the web that help me understand how to throw an underhand spiral?
Also, what are the differences between the "underhand spiral release" and the "hand-shaking release"?
I am very concerned about not teaching my friend to spin the ball, because it would be quite difficult to correct, from my own experience.
Post by: Panic on December 09, 2005, 08:05:18 AM
quote:
When I first went from straight ball to hook, my dad taught me to keep my hand behind the ball on the backswing and follow through, and as my hand comes out of the ball to picture putting my hand out to shake somebody else's hand. That got me started, and from there with some practice I developed my own feel for different releases.
To this day, when my game is going to crap, I go back to basics, and "shake the hand".
-TyShoe
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"How much you wanna make a bet I can throw a football over them mountains?"
same here
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Lukas
\M/ METAL MILITA \M/Post by: Magic Carpet on December 09, 2005, 09:05:52 AM
http://www.bowl4fun.com/ron/roncarchive.htm
Bowl great!
Ron Clifton
Post by: kingpin268 on December 09, 2005, 09:12:25 AM
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/kennmelvin/kVideo.htm
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Bully Your Competition
Post by: Brodieman on December 09, 2005, 09:27:43 AM
Edited on 12/9/2005 10:20 AM
Post by: LuckyLefty on December 09, 2005, 09:34:52 AM
Available on some websites. He basically advocates having a guy take a properly drilled fingertip ball with thumbhole. And throw on a rug to a friend or into a pillow next to a couch accross a rug floor.
One starts with your thumb only barely in. Once you get the finger release down...you put the thumb in more....then more. If you don't get the proper finger role put thumb in a little less.
A series of confidence steps while not looking at pins.
Works....and works great!
REgards,
Luckylefty
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Proud owner of a 140 first game average this year! Don't bowl me the second two games though! (two warm up balls in league..thanks proprietors)
Post by: JohnP on December 09, 2005, 10:15:45 AM
Post by: bowling9883 on December 09, 2005, 11:54:29 AM
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"NEVER settle for less."
Post by: Sn on December 10, 2005, 08:10:41 AM
But the ball has too much axis tilt and it simply spins down the lane, skids long, and then come back when the backend is really, really dry.
He seems to be doing the "underhand spiral" right.
How do I correct his top spin release? Is it due to his weak fingers that impart too little lift on the ball?
Thanks!
Post by: CoachJim on December 11, 2005, 03:46:20 AM
If you have read the articles in Ron Clifton's archives on
http://www.bowl4fun.com, You will notice that the release you are trying to achieve requires you to keep your hand in position (what position depends on what type of reaction you are trying to get from the ball) and let the ball turn your hand, not your hand turn the ball.
As you see, that spinner release may have a use on lanes where the heads are blown out and you need more recovery on the back end.
Post by: Sn on December 11, 2005, 08:42:35 AM
quote:
Sounds like he is turning his hand around the ball as the ball is getting to the release point.
If you have read the articles in Ron Clifton's archives on
http://www.bowl4fun.com, You will notice that the release you are trying to achieve requires you to keep your hand in position (what position depends on what type of reaction you are trying to get from the ball) and let the ball turn your hand, not your hand turn the ball.
As you see, that spinner release may have a use on lanes where the heads are blown out and you need more recovery on the back end.
Thank you for your advice.
I could see that my friend could really stay behind the ball and not go around the side too much. However, there was still too much top spin. I think the axis tilt is somewhere in between 45 to 60 degrees.
Could it be caused by weak fingers? He didn't drop the ball but I could see that the lift is not enough. If the lift is insufficient to impart a forward rotation, the ball would spin. Am I thinking right?
Furthermore, could you kindly explain more on "letting the ball turn my hand"? I don't quite understand how it's done.
So many thanks!
Post by: KR300 on December 11, 2005, 09:09:49 AM
You may tend to "spin" the ball more than desired initially, but focusing on bringing the fingers from 7:00 to 3:00 at the finish has really worked well for most of the kids and adults I work with that are looking for a little more hook.
Hope this helps.
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If you blame the lane conditions for your bad scores, then you had better thank them for your good ones!!
Post by: Sn on December 11, 2005, 09:34:17 AM
quote:
I personally have had a lot of success teaching my students to have their fingers at 7:00 (right handed) at the bottom of the swing just before release. This position also helps to keep the elbow from flying out or "chicken winging".
You may tend to "spin" the ball more than desired initially, but focusing on bringing the fingers from 7:00 to 3:00 at the finish has really worked well for most of the kids and adults I work with that are looking for a little more hook.
Hope this helps.
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If you blame the lane conditions for your bad scores, then you had better thank them for your good ones!!
Thank you for your advice!
But if one brings his fingers from 7:00 to 3:00, will it create too much top spin? It sounds to me that turning the wrist in this extent will make my hand go too far to the side of the ball.
Maybe I've mistaken. But would you kindly elaborate more on this kind of release? For example, when to start turning the fingers from 7:00 to 3:00? What is the wrist position? Do I have to release the ball later so that there is more finger lift?
Thanks!
Post by: KR300 on December 11, 2005, 11:47:55 AM
You may see a little overspin initially, but with some practice you will find that the fingers will come to 3:00 very naturally. Think about it..hang your hands at your sides, look at the hand position. that is your natural hand position(fingers to the side). 7:00 is not a natural position. So with practice staying relaxed with the armswing and focus on bringing the FINGERS not the hand around naturally, the fingers will come around to 3:00 very naturally, not forced. Reply if you have any other questions. Hope this helps
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If you blame the lane conditions for your bad scores, then you had better thank them for your good ones!!
Post by: CoachJim on December 14, 2005, 04:30:09 AM
The modern game requires bowlers to learn more than one release. If you read Ron Clifton's article on http://www.bowl4fun.com about "The Dancing Fingers". It will explain different hand positions and what reactions they impart on the ball.
As far as spinning the ball and too much axis tilt, that is caused by the thumb leaving the ball a bit too early and the fingers spinning around the side of the ball as the pass the sliding foot.
To get more forward roll you will need to have your friend keep his thumb in the ball a little longer. The thumb should still clear the ball before the fingers.
As far as letting the ball turn your hand instead of your hand turn the ball. Put your fingers and thumb in the ball, and get in your starting position (you can do this at home you are not going to release the ball in this exercise).
Next I want you to place the weight of the ball in your opposite hand and let your index finger of your bowling hand (your hand still in the ball) point toward an immaginary target. Next let the weight of the ball roll back into the bowling hand with your index finger pointed at the target and fingers pointed toward the inside. Next let your thumb come out of the ball as you lift up on the ball and let it roll back into your non bowling hand and watch the ball rotate on it's own without you having to turn it. You can modify the rotation by pointing your ring finger toward the target this will give you an almost end over end rotation, or point your middle finger at your target giving you about 45 degrees of rotation, or spread your index finger and get 75+ degrees depending on your flexability and wrist strength.
Post by: JohnP on December 14, 2005, 09:26:31 AM