BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: squirrelywrath1 on February 24, 2016, 06:05:13 PM
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....needs to go too. It's wrist supports.
Bowlers who depend on the extra help the supports give such as Scroggins and Liz Johnson can kiss their careers bye-bye.
If they want to ban the extra "help" the two hand & no-thumb gives..... then the "help" wrist supports give needs to go too.
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What about the people who use wrist braces so they aren't in pain and are able to bowl?
How many senior bowlers use wrist braces? You're alienating a large portion of today's bowling population by doing that
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lets go back to plastic balls and see you can bowl.
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Is wrist supports allowed in the PBA?
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They can't ban braces because of seniors and people with injuries that require the support. And I know this doesn't encompass a lot of people, but there are some people who cannot use a thumb because of injuries. I have a teammate that has broken his left hand so many times in so many places that using a thumb to bowl causes pain and swelling. His right hand is even worse. Football and construction work have taken its toll on him.
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lets go back to plastic balls and see you can bowl.
I already am. Never said I was any good though. But I can tell you that I piss off other bowlers because I cause different lane transition. So much, that one guy will take the day off if he has to bowl against me.
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I'm often found using a wrist support, the glove with the bar on the posterior part of the hand. I use it when my wrist gets painful and/or my tendinitis flares up. My fingers joints gets swollen and such....
When my release is suffering without the brace due to a painful right hand/wrist - picking up the ball even hurts some times, I put on the wrist support. I don't like it but I have to. It helps me bowl through the night and still enjoy the game.
Note: ever since I went on a diet last Oct. and changed my eating habits, my pain reduced and flare ups not as often.
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Is wrist supports allowed in the PBA?
Yup. Watch Scroggins: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDKVcKg_PLU
He seems to get a lot of help from that crazy thing on his wrist. I doubt he'd be competitive without it. Just as I doubt that Belmo would be competitive is he actually had to use his thumb.
So, as far as I'm concerned... if the governing bodies decide to ban one, they must ban the other. (Or simply bowl in unsanctioned competition where anything goes)
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They can't ban braces because of seniors and people with injuries that require the support. And I know this doesn't encompass a lot of people, but there are some people who cannot use a thumb because of injuries. I have a teammate that has broken his left hand so many times in so many places that using a thumb to bowl causes pain and swelling. His right hand is even worse. Football and construction work have taken its toll on him.
I hear ya. Personally, I can twist the cover off the ball with my thumb in. But, in doing so I also rip it to shreds and my hand hurts afterward. I found that I can score just as well NOT using my thumb, with the bonus of not having any pain issues. But unfortunately for me, many others feel that I'm gaining an unfair advantage and my technique should be banned.
I say, how is this any different from someone using a wrist support? Both types are trying to compensate for something right? You ban one, you gotta ban the other.
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Lets ban bowling shoes and NO socks. Bare feet only. Oh, and only natural stone balls, aka, Flintstone style bowilng. Yabba dabba dooo... Stone slate alleys with no modifications whatsoever.
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Two handed won't be banned.
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Haha! Yeah I'm sure Scroggins has no talent... It's all in the wrist protector.. Sorry that is funny to me. They should on the other hand make him wear hat. Dude is hard to look at.
None of this stuff will get banned though
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The argument is silly to me. No matter what hand you use, whether your thumb is in the ball or out, whether you take 4, 5, or 6 steps, and whether you use a wrist device or not, you still have to hit a target with proper speed, revs, tilt, etc. None of the aforementioned items guarantees your success. There are two-handed bowlers who stink. There are people who wear wrist devices and still put little to nothing on the ball.
A few years back, I tried to learn two-handed bowling. I stuck with it for a year, and I improved a great deal from beginning to end; nevertheless, I was still a far better one-handed player than I was a two-hander at the end of that time. Yes, there were times where the extra revs of two-handed bowling allowed me to play the lanes differently than other people, but that didn't matter unless I could actually throw good shots while playing there. Too many people look at no-thumb bowling, wrist braces, etc. as some sort of guaranteed advantage. If there truly were a single factor that gave you an automatic boost right off the bat, EVERY high level player out there would be doing that thing, whatever it was.
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Is wrist supports allowed in the PBA?
Yes, they are. They don't work very well with the younger bowlers, because of the cocking/uncocking they need to generate revs. Most seniors use them to overcome weakness and to prevent wrist pain.
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Haha! Yeah I'm sure Scroggins has no talent... It's all in the wrist protector.. Sorry that is funny to me. They should on the other hand make him wear hat. Dude is hard to look at.
None of this stuff will get banned though
Yea, I have had guys ask what kind of wrist device I use (Storm Gizmo) because they wanted to hook the ball like I do! Can ya believe it?
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lol @ everyone so worried and concerned about the manner in which another bowler delivers the ball to the lane bed.
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Well unfortunately, I am a two-handed and at times a no-thumb bowler who is encountering quite a bit of "resistance" shall we say. Some of that "resistance" was not presented to me in a polite & respectful way. I believe that if you guys and gals were in my shoes you'd be pretty upset too.
Just some food for thought on this one.... I was recently told that "you would not be welcome" to bowl in one of the most competitive leagues in the area. What that exactly means? I'm assuming to be my style of play. (FYI, the guy who told me that he won't bowl against me because I screw up the lanes is in this league)
So, let me throw this out there.... can a league or tournament organization vote certain players out based on their chosen style of play AND still be sanctioned by the USBC?
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They could try, but once you appeal to the USBC(Local first then National), they are going to have to give a valid reason. And using two hands is not a valid reason.
I guess a league could pass a rule not allowing two handers, but I doubt USBC would allow that to stand.
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Two hands is here to stay..So if someone ends up at birth with a misformed thumb or has to have it removed due to a work accident or something they can't bowl in a league ever in there life.. Sounds pretty stupid and I bowl 1 hands.
A coach told me once, your gonna be mad at a bowler that has the right roll, release, and surface on a ball and you don't and he can score.. You need to learn your own game and make adjustments
So I have bowled in tournaments with two handers that can mess up a line, But you just got to adjust, unless your just a Joe blow house bowler that wants to throw the same line night after night, then every time someone else messes up your line your mad cause you can't adjust and blame another guy.
Some will be mad at this, But if 2 hand is so easy go try it. EJ tackett I believe has the highest rev rate on tour and he is a one hander.
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Assuming you don't like two handers ( I have no problem with them ) you don't fix the problem through rules. Its an environmental game. You can put out lane conditions that are very challenging to any particular style. If you want to make a rule change ban surface alterations and require that all balls be finished to 4000 grit.
I had a bigger problem with the limited distance dressing rule of the 80's. That was a license to steal for every cup wristed hack who only had a general theory of how to pick up a spare. That bothered me because they could beat me without executing as good as me. Cant count the number of times guys beat me badly despite blowing multiple spares while I was picking up 10 pins.
Bottom line, tame the ball surfaces down, continue working on oils that hold up longer, and if high rev guys, including two handers can compete in that environment they have earned it.
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Bottom line, tame the ball surfaces down, continue working on oils that hold up longer, and if high rev guys, including two handers can compete in that environment they have earned it.
The problem here is you are still trying to manipulate the game to explicitly give high rev bowlers a disadvantage by limiting coverstock technology. Coverstocks will only get as strong as the buying public allows.
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Assuming you don't like two handers
I am a two hander. One that is rather tired of trying to defend my way of bowling.
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Assuming you don't like two handers ( I have no problem with them ) you don't fix the problem through rules. Its an environmental game. You can put out lane conditions that are very challenging to any particular style. If you want to make a rule change ban surface alterations and require that all balls be finished to 4000 grit.
I had a bigger problem with the limited distance dressing rule of the 80's. That was a license to steal for every cup wristed hack who only had a general theory of how to pick up a spare. That bothered me because they could beat me without executing as good as me. Cant count the number of times guys beat me badly despite blowing multiple spares while I was picking up 10 pins.
Bottom line, tame the ball surfaces down, continue working on oils that hold up longer, and if high rev guys, including two handers can compete in that environment they have earned it.
Execution by definition is the carrying out or putting into effect of a plan, order, or course of action. If this cup wristed hack was beating you, he was executing his plan better than you were. I do not understand how people continually try to put people down because of the type of athletic ability they possess. It is a skill to impart revolutions and speed on a bowling ball, it is not something you can learn. Same thing with throwing a baseball 95+ mph. I am a one handed bowler, naturally sitting between 19-21 mph and 450+ revolutions depending on the pattern I bowl on. If I try to deliver a ball two handed you can cut those numbers in half, simply can't do it. That does not however translate to an advantage for a two handed bowler.
It is not a bowler's fault if they can throw a ball harder than you or rev it faster. I recently watched the PBA Super Clash again between Belmo and Rash. That was a perfect example of shot execution winning, all they talked about was Belmo struggling on short patterns and he made the correct adjustments to outscore Rash for the win.
The Sport of Bowling will not move forward with continuing attitudes that bowling was better back then. Why would people want to get involved in a Sport that is "regressing". The majority of people who do not actively bowl get their perception of Bowling through regular local league bowlers. In my experience, the majority of league bowlers have a "better than you" complex and people aren't worth the time to explain how "technical" our game is. The game is simple to get into, with a little time and effort easy to be good at, and if you want to be great you will need to put in a lot of time and effort mentally, physically, and learning the technical aspects of the game.
No offense to some of you, but you apparently just are not as good at the game as you would like to think you are. I know where I stand, I'm far from elite. I have my good days where I can compete at a high level, but I can sure have my off days as well. I'm ok with that, but one thing I will not do is make excuses about how someone else beat me(unless they are a sand bagger) especially based on the fact how they choose to deliver the ball.
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I am a two hander. One that is rather tired of trying to defend my way of bowling.
Then don't. When you try to it makes it look like that have a legit case (they don't and that's coming from a non two-hander).
If they don't like it they can...........wait for it..............deal with it!
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I had a bigger problem with the limited distance dressing rule of the 80's. That was a license to steal for every cup wristed hack who only had a general theory of how to pick up a spare. That bothered me because they could beat me without executing as good as me. Cant count the number of times guys beat me badly despite blowing multiple spares while I was picking up 10 pins.
Maybe you needed more things to improve in order to beat them. Everything else said is just, or was an excuse.
For a person who bowled for so many decades, who have seen it all, looks like you have a lot to learn still. Just because you have decades under your belt, still doesn't mean your pockets are full.
You're no Sawbones that for sure....
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I think every one should stop worrying about how some one else bowls and just concentrate on beating them. It's so rediculas that every one is concerned about the delivery. Work in your own respective style and get better so you have the confidence to play against any one. I'm sorry but were I'm at there are two handers and some are very good. But no one person is so dominant that it's causing "panty bunching" of this caliber.
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loop - it's all because of Brian Voss believing 2h is cheating :)
2h has been around 30yrs.. 1st one I've seen do it and because of him PBA drilling
rules were changed because of him is Chuck Lande... So no, it's not going to be outlawed :)
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I look at it this way, if you're worried about the way a bowler bowls two-handed or using a wrist support, then obviously you have some jealousy and animosity toward them. It boggles me about why people worry about the way someone bowls if it's perfectly legal for them to bowl like that. Shouldn't that bowler concentrate more on their game and winning rather than criticizing someone who's style is completely different and is just as good to compete?
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I think my choice of words and tone have led some of you astray... so to clear this up: I am the original poster of this thread, AND I am a two handed no-thumb bowler
I was lashing out at how myself & others like me have been treated. Being called 'cheaters', lesser skilled, etc. The most common one is that I have an unfair advantage. Really? I'm barely a house hack, hardly a threat to the big dogs of bowling.
But why attack this little group of bowlers that I belong to? Why not those who use the 'robo-wrists'? The way I see it, they are on the same level as me.
I use no thumb to enhance my strike shots, the 'robo-wrists' assist bowlers get more lift & turn. I'll also put my thumb in the ball to shoot most spares, while the 'robo-wristers' can remove the apparatus to further kill the shot when they shoot spares.
But why-oh-why the hatred and HARRASSMENT of the two-handers and no-thumbers? I'm guessing it's jealousy.
I can't help but wonder if Scroggy and others who use the 'robo-wrist' started to dominate the tour, would the haters call for a ban on the wrist supports? Probably is my guess.
Sorry, I'm just old and tired of fighting. (Perhaps I should grow some thicker skin too) :-\
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I guess I did a bad job of making my point. The problem I had with short oil was that it was the only game in town. Nobody had to have any versatility to play. It was totally strike or no count. Cant count how many times guys beat me by 50 pins with 6 or 7 opens to my 2. Short oil rewarded power only to the extent that superior accuracy wasn't enough to compensate. No question in hindsight that I did not do things within my control that could have made me more competitive in that era.
The strongest part of my game is versatility, but nobody can hit every condition. The difference between the two handed game today and the short oil era, is that two handers have to be versatile, and have to be good spare shooters. I don't have the power any more to compete with good young high rev high speed guys whether they are playing two handed or traditionally. I can accept that.
The short oil era of the 80's did great damage to the game by spawning a generation of one dimensional bowlers who couldn't play without unlimited swing area.
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Highest score wins. Period.