Post by: 9andaWiggle on January 23, 2012, 01:23:30 AM
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Post by: BKloss on January 23, 2012, 09:44:34 AM
In my local assoc. the directors are a joke. The entries for city tournament events declined rapidly over the past 4-5 years and it is almost not worth bowling. I normally try bowl one squad of each. Singles, doubles, Trio, and Team. Singles gets maybe 100 entries doubles approx 40. Trios had 10 entries and Team gets about 50-60 which the first squad each house puts at least 2 teams in each year for a proprietor squad. We have 10 houses in our area with approx 300 lanes and this is all they can get. Side pots is majority handicap.
The directors put out forms for tournaments a week in advance....How do they expect people who have jobs on the weekends to get time off or re-work their schedules? Is this a viable reason to not bowl local tournaments? I am really debating it this year and instead of wasting time trying to find one maybe further away to go bowl.
The only Local tournament I definitely bowl is a Senior/Adult tournament - gets about 70+ entries and side pots are scratch and handicap. The Senior Directors give out advance notice and promote the tournament and try to get sponsors every year. Well run and runs over the entire weekend - 2 houses(1 Sat and 1 Sun)
Other tournaments - I try to get out to as many as possible usually 1 a month is possible with work and family stuff. I know this doesn't really answer your question but I think you will get alot of people with the same scenario as me and the fact the Directors of local assoc don't do what they were put in place of doing.
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Edited by BKloss on 1/23/2012 at 10:58 AM
Post by: 9andaWiggle on January 23, 2012, 10:09:00 AM
I hear people lamenting poor tournament turn outs, and my theory is that despite excuses we usually hear, the root cause is that people simply don't enjoy it.
Your post seems to support that; you bowl them, but would maybe bowl more if directors didn't make it a hassle to sign up/plan for them. In doing so, they create a stressful process that leads to people not returning thus not making it fun to show up and only be bowling with a couple dozen people.
Am I close?
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Cyberspace Sheep Lover
Post by: BKloss on January 23, 2012, 10:14:38 AM
Spot on! More time to prepare in my personal life will guarantee I will bowl. With the little notice they provide they don't allow people with busy lifes outside of bowling to even attempt bowling in these tournaments. Granted there are people who will say "I didn't know" or "I have plans" regardless of when they send out the forms/flyers, but with more time I would only think that the turnout would be higher. It certainly couldn't hurt right?
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Post by: Ernie McCracken on January 23, 2012, 10:58:12 AM
I don't because its getting harder and harder to find scratch tournaments or a tournament on something other than a THS leading to an all out score war.
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Post by: spmcgivern on January 23, 2012, 11:08:29 AM
I quit bowling tournaments when it required so much money and effort to enter. I know I am in the minority here, but many bowlers, especially new bowlers, don't want to fork over $100+ for entry plus travel to enter a tournament just for the experience.
One thing I think should occur is more in-house tournaments intended for the league bowlers of a particular house. Keep costs down and provide an avenue for bowlers to gain experience in a tournament setting then move on to other more expensive tournaments.
I have started a tournament series in my house where the entry fee is low and the bowlers compete on Team USA or other tournament conditions. There are brackets and other side action, but for those just wanting to compete and bowl on difficult conditions, it is a great gateway tournament to move on to more competitive tournaments like regionals and the such.
I am not a pro-bowler, but I do play one on BallReviews.com
Edited by spmcgivern on 1/23/2012 at 1:06 PM
Post by: HAMBONE on January 23, 2012, 11:14:51 AM
I last bowled in our City Tournament several years ago. Singles I shoot 782 with a 290 game.
High game and series for the tournament, I got like 18 bucks for 11th place. 3 of the top 5 places didn't shoot 540 scratch. First place was 908 with his handicap.
I will not donate my money, when it is IMPOSSIBLE for me to win!!!
Drop and give me 10
Edited by HAMBONE on 1/23/2012 at 12:18 PM
Post by: Romulus Cogswell on January 23, 2012, 11:25:06 AM
Post by: Dewey24 on January 23, 2012, 11:32:11 AM
The long answer is:
There is a house in our association that has notoriously high scoring. 2 years ago they hosted the city tournament and scores were thru the roof. The directors decided that this would never happen again. They stopped using the hosting house shots and started using more difficult shots.
When the house bowler comes in and shoots 110 after he is averaging 210 they get pissed. The recreational bowler doesn't want the challenge of a more difficult shot. Entries weren't good before now they suck. People tried to talk some sense into the directors but they were convinced that they were right.
The last tournament had I think 5 team entries. So you figure 10 doubles and 20 singles entries. We are lucky that they run a few singles traveling tournaments in our area that consistently attract 150-200 singles entries. Do I pay the $55-100 for the singles tournaments and make money cashing or $75 and lucky if you make your entry fee back.
So while I used to bowled 5-7 tournaments a year and nationals now it's more like 2-3 and nationals.
Post by: trash heap on January 23, 2012, 11:52:06 AM
Now that was stupidity on the director. You can toughen up a house shot and make it a little more difficult. Just create a little more out of bounds area. Good bowlers will still score well, and it will only hurt the spray and pray bowlers.
Post by: 9andaWiggle on January 23, 2012, 01:27:33 PM
I can certainly see how that could sour one on tournaments! Ties back in to enjoying it. I imagine lower average players are discouraged by being pummeled by better bowlers, and better bowlers ate discouraged from being pummeled by handicap score they cannot reach even by shooting a perfect series.
What happened to divisions or avg caps (or minimums) for tourneys? Seems impossible for one tournament to be able to be everything to everyone. Would tiers where you compete with bowlers in a similar skill level be more enjoyable for all?
9~ Internet Tough Guy and
Cyberspace Sheep Lover
Edited by 9andaWiggle on 1/23/2012 at 2:28 PM
Post by: TheGame300 on January 23, 2012, 01:41:05 PM
We have a good scratch tournament that is run around here but the entry is between $150-$200. With brackets and pots, it is just way to much.
As far as county and state tournaments go, I refuse to bowl on a 5 man team. It takes to long and in this day and age, it is not needed. I do usually bowl singles and doubles though.
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Post by: MI 2 AZ on January 23, 2012, 07:17:34 PM
At this stage of my bowling game, I am strictly a donator and since I am retired, I can't afford that any longer.
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Post by: StickZ on January 23, 2012, 08:44:06 PM
the "scratch bowlers" complain when a 190-200 bowler throws it good for once and shoot 700 and handicap bowlers say they cant compete when a 230 bowler shoots 750...all in all, too much complaining. shut your damn mouth, throw the ball. YOUR score is determined by how good or how bad YOU throw the ball, nobody else! people complain about this or that. never blame themselves for their terrible scores. If you get beat, then it wasnt your day, take your tissues and go home. at least thats how it is here in Florida...nothing but excuses.
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High Game 09'-10' Season:300
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Post by: Quadrajet on January 23, 2012, 11:52:54 PM
We have a local handicap singles tournament series going on in our area, once a month on Sunday mornings. It's a quick 4 gamer with the top 5 going to stepladder. $45 to enter and the shot is a modified house pattern...just a few more units are added to the outsides to make it seem tougher. The shot feels like step between a THS and a Kegel challenge pattern. The nice thing is that there has been a mix of scratch and handicap players that qualify, which keeps both types of bowlers coming back for more. This tells me that the shot is pretty equitable for both.
They started the series a year or two ago by putting down Kegel Challenge patterns and that was just too hard for most house bowlers, it took about a 190 average to make the top 5, so entries were very low. Then they put out the house shot, but then it took a 240 average to make the top 5. The current modified house shot seems to appease all levels of bowlers and they've seen entries go from 10-15 to 30-40. This year, the tournament directors were able to give away $200 for the first 300 of this year's series thanks to a couple of local sponsors. First place is usually around $170 to $200 and they run $5 brackets as well as scratch and handicap high game pots.
It's apparent that (in our area) people are looking for something to bowl during tournament season. It's a quick, fun way to fill a Sunday morning and reminds me of the pot games all the locals hotshots used to bowl back when I was a junior bowler.
Post by: hhhbs1 on January 24, 2012, 06:27:15 AM
Post by: Bill Thomas on January 24, 2012, 10:54:14 AM
Can't compete against the really good bowlers and won't compete with the sandbaggers. A few years ago our state tournament had a 140 something average bowler shoot 2000+ scratch for all events. When I asked some people about the guy I was told "he's been working on his game lately". REALLY!!!
Edited by Bill Thomas on 1/24/2012 at 11:55 AM
Post by: Spider Man on January 24, 2012, 01:44:39 PM
The big tournament in my city is a handicap doubles. As you can imagine, numbers are down b/c of baggers. Last year I got beat in match play by a team with a 210 and a 150 for averages. In practice, I was talking to the 'better' bowler and he stated matter of fact that his partner was "just getting back into bowling" and had (coincidentally) finally gotten his own ball drilled - after the Jan. 1 average deadline. Before that he was using a house ball in league.
The tournament itself has tried to clean it up. But the compromise is to only re-rate all bowlers when it's down to the final 16. Before that, you're on your own.
Post by: StickZ on January 24, 2012, 03:18:49 PM
then report sandbagging to usbc, we had a team on friday nights a few years ago sandbag on purpose due to the handicap being 100% of 220, yea of course 100% is rdiculous but oh well, thats a mixed league for you...they were reported, kicked out of the league and lost their cards....its not hard to see a bowler average 220 for 10 years then bag to 190-200 a season, report them. its that easy.
Career High Game: 300x3
Career High Series: 774x2
High Game 09'-10' Season:300
High Series 09'-10':774
KiDSGoTGaMe
Post by: al_g on January 24, 2012, 03:46:33 PM
Do you know about the Greater Iowa Bowling Assoc.? They have tournaments about every month during the season see http://www.giba-bowling.com Out of the 6 tournaments this year 2 on sport shots, one on a challenge shot(+26 to cash so lower scroing) and 3 on THS. The low turnout this year has been 65 entries with a high of 128 for the Fusion Realtors Open to start the year.
The GIBA website also lists other non-GIBA scratch tournaments in the state if the tournament directors send their information to the GIBA director. There's 2 scratch tournaments this weekend. One in Estherville on Sat. - 2 different sport shots in two 5 game blocks, -107 to cash last year only 2 people on the plus side. Another is in Mason City on Sunday.
I've found there's plenty of scratch tournaments in the state if you know where to look or who to ask.
Post by: ImBackInTheGame on January 25, 2012, 12:11:36 PM
I would love to bowl in tournaments, but it's about time and money. Both of which are lacking. I will be going to the state tournament for the first time this year, I don't expect great things, but it will be fun.
The center I bowl at runs small tournaments once in a while. I've bowled in 3 of them over the last three years and made the stepladder in each of them only to be one and done, lol. Looking to bowl some ABT tournaments, I just love competition even if it is handicapped.
Post by: stormdamage on January 26, 2012, 07:21:50 AM
Tournaments. A touchy subject for me. All you guys who are faced with the poorly run tournaments have my sympathy to an extent. I wish we had even a halfway run tourney in my area. There is one house within a 50 mile radius of me. Old, outdated house with wood lanes that more resemble bowling on a boat dock. Poorly maintained, a "pro shop" that is never actually open. Not to mention that if you need something as simple as finger inserts changed out in your ball it's always, "leave it with me a couple of days and I'll take care of it for ya." I love the owners. Used to even work there as a second job when I was expecting the arrival of my little one. They just have no desire in "investing" anything in the center to improve it. That said, they haven't had a tournament there in probably over 5 years. So it's a 50 mile drive to enter the nearest tourney, so there you have gas costs in addition to entry fees. I am heading to my first tourney since I was in juniors, this March. It's a scratch tourney that is an hour and a half away, but it's a low entry fee and it's a simple walk-in and sign up format. Nice facility too. So in closing, I feel for those of you who have to deal with the pains of poorly run tourneys but at least you have them available. That said, much like the outdated house I bowl in, all a poorly run tourney does is fill the void of not having one.
Cheers,
stormdamage