BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: Juggernaut on September 17, 2018, 01:50:05 PM
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would you go with a new, “modern†urethane, or would you prefer an older, original urethane?
Reason I ask is, over the long haul I tend to score better/more consistently with urethane.
That, and I already own a lower games, fully plugged, original blue Hammer, and an original blue Nitro that needs the thumb fixed.
Saw a video where Bill O’Neill claims that the new Black Hammer is only slightly stronger than the original blue.
Really like my black quantum, so was looking at the True Motion to get a slightly stronger core than a Hammer.
I’ve tried some of the “urethane like†choices, but most of them really acted less like real urethane, and more like resin, than they were supposed to, at least to me.
Lots of choices out there right now, so what you guys think?
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If you threw 16 pounds I might suggest a Visionary Scorcher NPT. Bowlerscellar has 16 pounds still available...had 2 of them before at one time and another...very weak on the back end(urethane like but a tad stronger), and earlier than resin.
Brad
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Just drilled my Scorcher NPT and can give a report after throw it. 2 big differences imo between old and new urethane is new urethane tends to be stronger but also doesn't tend to hold its surface as well as say a Faball Blue Hammer (first time I tried changing surface by hand learned yeah bring a lunch). Love my Crow but my favorite urethane strike ball is my AMF Sumo (very strong predictable and also holds surface well) but then again I need help from a big core. Red Razor is probably the strongest old urethane but that ball tends to be not very forgiving if go high at all. Jaz swears by his Hot Cell and heard good things about the BW urethane if looking for strongest urethane balls possible. True motion is more tame but looks like a good piece especially for drier conditions.
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You could also take a look at the Black Widow Urethane. I have 2, one OOB and one lightly polished. I love the polished one immensely!
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I would definitely take old school urethane over modern urethane because the former retains its grit a lot better plus they react more predictably to dry boards. For urethane reactions out of a non-urethane, I heard that the Scorcher NPT is certainly on the smooth side although I have never seen it in action. Brad, may I PM you?
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As for the npt I no longer have either one..but if I did get another one I would put a much much more aggressive drilling on it. As others have stated on here about this ball...kicking the cg out quite a bit helps get some kind of reaction out of the ball.
Brad
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I thought NPT was asym but driller said it was symmetric so went 4x4x2 on it.
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Every time I swear off urethane, I talk myself into buying a new one. :) With my medium rev rate, except for very rare conditions, I almost always find resin to be a superior option. Still, I currently own a Roto Grip Hot Cell, Black Hammer, Purple Pearl Hammer, Blue Hammer, and a Storm Mix (my spare ball). In the more distant past, I also owned Lane#1, Storm, and older Hammer urethanes.
As far as "old" or "new" urethane, my experience is that you'll never mistake any of the referenced balls with a reactive resin reaction. Even the Asymmetric Hot Cell with it's bad boy core is still a very recognizable urethane reaction.
I just got my Purple Hammer drilled up for a big tournament where there will be a short 35' pattern. I wanted a pearl urethane for a different urethane look, and in the few games I've practiced with it, I'm not disappointed. It clears the mids better than my Hot Cell and Black Hammer, and while not a "resin like" reaction when it hits friction, it has better urethane recovery than I'm used to seeing.
Scoring in the modern game is all about carry, so I'm perplexed by anyone with less than 400+ revs who would consider urethane as a first option. But the beauty of bowling is that we're all different and there is no single way.
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I love throwing urethane whenever i get a chance to which is pretty often lately. Im not one to cross many boards and i love the predictability of urethane. I had 15 in a row on Sat with my BooYah freshly drilled OOB. Would love to try an older Urethane with same drilling and compare the 2 on similar shots. I'm the exception being RH and can effectively throw urethane and score on anything short of a flood. I don't have many revs, just like playing 10-5 on most THS and works for me. If i have to ball up, most of the time i go to the After Dark's, Desert Ops, or my trusty polished Truth Tour.
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I'm actually excited to put holes in my Shadow Ops, because I have to put away my Booyah after the first game. On the fresh, I can stand where the dumpers are and score, but once transition hits, I have to go to something with a little more shape. Shadow will be that ball without me moving too far left. Then after that blows up, I can move in and use a Honey Badger or Drift.
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Scoring in the modern game is all about carry, so I'm perplexed by anyone with less than 400+ revs who would consider urethane as a first option. But the beauty of bowling is that we're all different and there is no single way.
I'm only in the 300-350 rev rate range, but I will go to it often enough. After having a horrible week last week with resin, I decided it was back to urethane this week. I'd rather sacrifice the odd corner pin than deal with splits all night. Our house shot was a pain to bowl on all summer, and it is still a pain right now.
I swapped between a Hot Cell and Shadow Ops last night for 2.5 games. Much better than last week. My son did sub into the 3rd game for my wife and he was swinging a black hammer (which I gave him) right into my breakpoint. I started to experience some carry down and going around it was not really the answer. I went to resin. That wasn't really the answer either. But I had to see for myself. Still was under last year's average by a fair amount, but far better than the pitiful series I put up last monday. Probably going to be urethane first out of the bag again tonight in 5 man.
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Scoring in the modern game is all about carry, so I'm perplexed by anyone with less than 400+ revs who would consider urethane as a first option. But the beauty of bowling is that we're all different and there is no single way.
I'm only in the 300-350 rev rate range, but I will go to it often enough. After having a horrible week last week with resin, I decided it was back to urethane this week. I'd rather sacrifice the odd corner pin than deal with splits all night. Our house shot was a pain to bowl on all summer, and it is still a pain right now.
I swapped between a Hot Cell and Shadow Ops last night for 2.5 games. Much better than last week. My son did sub into the 3rd game for my wife and he was swinging a black hammer (which I gave him) right into my breakpoint. I started to experience some carry down and going around it was not really the answer. I went to resin. That wasn't really the answer either. But I had to see for myself. Still was under last year's average by a fair amount, but far better than the pitiful series I put up last monday. Probably going to be urethane first out of the bag again tonight in 5 man.
Jazlar,
How did that shadow ops compare to that hot cell?
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I like the modern urethanes better so far. Not talking about the Purple (since it's an animal on its own), they seem less oil sensative and a bit more shape compared to the older ones. The old ones do seem to hold their surface better though. Maybe I'll drill an original Black Hammer (maybe even a Burgundy as well) and compare them to the new Black Urethane.
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Jazlar,
How did that shadow ops compare to that hot cell?
Shadow Ops is cleaner and a bit more on the back end than the Hot Cell. The Hot Cell reads really early. It's also a little stronger overall. But the biggest difference is the shape. Shadow Ops is still an early rolling ball due to the 80% urethane, just not as early as the Hot Cell. I find the Shadow Ops to be a little more versatile.
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Only ever rolled a Vector One for old urethane and a Classic U2 for new "urethane". I'm not sure what the Classic is because the very top layer of the cover got much lighter after a soap and hot water bath and spots are changing back with impact I think.
Storm's Matchmaker did suggest a Pitch Black for my medium-light house shot even though I think I have less than 275 revs. Must be my high axis rotation ;D
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Just in case anyone is interested finally got to throw the 16lb Scorcher NPT in the dry house I usually throw my urethane. Just for comparison sakes I brought my also 16lb Faball Blue Hammer and took a maroon scotch brite to both before hand. The NPT is definitely cleaner up front than the Blue Hammer but it really doesn't hook more overall (but definitely more in the backend) and maybe even a tad less overall with my style. Have to be honest and say I actually preferred the Blue Hammer early in the session as it could really bite better into the oil with its early motion (reason why its a legend) but as my line started drying up the NPT really started to shine. By the third game or so the Blue Hammer was starting to over hook and would have required adjustments but I could camp out with the NPT around the track no problem. Carry wise very similar but with the NPT leaving less splits especially late in the session. The NPT also seemed to be a little better at reading the pattern and giving a little more miss room later on as well. Its definitely not a dud imo but will be condition specific unless you have a ton of hand. Might try throwing it next week on more normal volume house shot and see but guessing its going to be close to a spare ball with my style. Wish I could have gotten it in 15lb back in the day. Overall a great ball for dry but not so much for oil first impressions. Maybe it will surprise me but can fairly confidently say you will not have to worry about this ball jerking left on flying backends.
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It depends on the surface you are bowling on. The new urethane pieces are stronger than the old ones but not by much. You can throw a Burgundy Hammer and a Pitch Black on the same shot, you just need to get the surfaces correct. The only exception I found was the Hot Cell as it is a LOT stronger, but it's still urethane, and its still going to give you the same carry issues that all urethanes do.
If you have an old ball, clean it up, sand it down, and give it a shot. The old ones roll good .. I can still score with my old Black Angle.
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I think less depends on old versus new, but more on matching strength to one's style and conditions they bowl on. Whichever ball allows you the best carry while still keeping your angles direct will be the best option.
Balls like the Hot Cell and such (really strong) are great for some bowlers, but if you have to go inside/out with urethane, you will have a rough time.
There seems to be enough variation in the strength of urethane on the market where one can get a benchmark urethane and then go from there; much like bowlers do with resin. Based on how that benchmark ball reacts you can go stronger or weaker from there.
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I have a solid urethane (Booyah) and resin/urethane mix (Shadow Ops) available to me, and while I can go a little left to right with the solid, I can't do much. Haven't thrown my Shadow yet, but it does look like older urethane with a high flare drilling.
That being said, I wouldn't mind something like an After Dark with a pearl urethane cover on it, just to be able to stand right in the dirt.
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I dont think there is a lot of difference between the shells on the older and new urethane. Biggest difference is new cores which can impact the shape . Also when urethane dominated we were playing on 30 ft or shorter patterns. Much different environment back then
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I now own several of the newer Urethanes:
1) Red Cell
2) Black Hammer (solid)
3) Purple Hammer (pearl)
4) Blue Hammer (strange blend)
Except for higher friction short patterns, with my 300 RPM rev rate, I find that most of the above balls have little value relative to resin. I'll always bring a Urethane for fresh short patterns where resin can be too strong, but otherwise, these balls tend to be fools gold. Old or new, the conclusion is still the same.
Now, for the guys who can tear the cover off the ball, it's a different story......
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Maybe wait to see what the Magenta Urethane is on the approved list for Hammer now
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Hated the Hot Cell probably due to my higher rev rate and low tilt but the Hammer Purple Pearl is really good. I practice with urethane a lot to sharpen my game though I rarely need to use it in tournaments.
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Hated the Hot Cell probably due to my higher rev rate and low tilt but the Hammer Purple Pearl is really good. I practice with urethane a lot to sharpen my game though I rarely need to use it in tournaments.
I agree on the Purple. If I kept only one of my Urethanes, it would be the Purple. From my personal experience and observation, it's the most versatile of currently available urethanes.