I need help understanding where I am wrong here, so maybe one of the experienced league bowlers here can show me the light.


One of my leagues finished our season last night with sweepers, roll-offs, season awards etc. We all received our "pennies" for point money and sweepers. Then the season awards were paid out.


The league is a lower skill level mixed league with a handful of scratch bowlers mixed in on a few teams. The handicap totally favors the higher average bowlers(80% of 200) and on my team I had one vacant(140) and two new bowlers who are really just learning the game. We joined this league as a way for them to get better and have a good introduction to the game. This is a league where if you won every point and award, you still only have lunch money.


OK, now the problem I have trouble understanding. One bowler, Gary, had the high scratch series at 811 and none of the handicap bowlers had a handicap series that was higher. The closest was a 772 scratch series and with handicap it came to 806. The league paid the 806 as the season high series winner. This baffles me to no end, however, it gets better.


I had the only scratch 300 game in the league this season. The closest to me was another scratch bowler who shot a 298. The league paid out the 298 as the high game for the season. The closest true handicap bowler high game was 290, but that bowler didn't win anything.


When I questioned the league secretary and president about this, they both immediately said "that's just the way they do it here".


I've ran this through my mind since last night and just can not see a way that this is valid.


Am I missing something??? The league doesn't use a negative handicap, so Gary's 811 was actually the high handicap series and my 300 was the high handicap game. I'm confused.


 

So, 2nd place is first place?   

Usually, when the logical explanation is "that's just the way they do it here" the competence of those in charge immediately is questioned by me. 

So I would posit, 2nd place is first place and then ask them to validate that.

I think you have a legitimate complaint and if it is a sanctioned league you can damn sure bet I'm pressing THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE w/USBC.

Please keep us updated, I can't wait to hear the reasoning (or lack thereof).

Seems a little odd that your league doesn't have handicap and scratch awards. I've never bowled in a handicap league that doesn't recognize both. I'm thinking you could contact your local area USBC association President and see what they say.

That was the first excuse the league president gave me. Her direct quote was "We have enough money to pay both scratch and handicap." I'm fine with that as I tend to think these kind of handicap leagues should favor the lower average bowlers. But I actually WON the series high game, with or without handicap. Just as Gary won the season high series. LOL

So, 2nd place is first place?   

Usually, when the logical explanation is "that's just the way they do it here" the competence of those in charge immediately is questioned by me. 

So I would posit, 2nd place is first place and then ask them to validate that.

I think you have a legitimate complaint and if it is a sanctioned league you can damn sure bet I'm pressing THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE w/USBC.

Please keep us updated, I can't wait to hear the reasoning (or lack thereof).

Yes, I agree. It's only like $30 or something, but to me it's more the point of it. I'm waiting until the league coordinator comes to work at the bowling alley today to get an explanation of how it's supposed to work. If she can't tell me, then I'll be call the local association manager.

Quote from: Good Times Good Times on May 04, 2015, 10:38:04 AM

So, 2nd place is first place?   

Usually, when the logical explanation is "that's just the way they do it here" the competence of those in charge immediately is questioned by me. 

So I would posit, 2nd place is first place and then ask them to validate that.

I think you have a legitimate complaint and if it is a sanctioned league you can damn sure bet I'm pressing THIS PARTICULAR INSTANCE w/USBC.

Please keep us updated, I can't wait to hear the reasoning (or lack thereof).

Yes, I agree. It's only like $30 or something, but to me it's more the point of it. I'm waiting until the league coordinator comes to work at the bowling alley today to get an explanation of how it's supposed to work. If she can't tell me, then I'll be call the local association manager.

I completely agree, it's principle. 

One thing I do wonder, is the league coordinator someone other than the secretary or president?  I'm surprised the secretary and president offered such a flippant response and no explanation (or even attempt to explain really).  That's just mind-boggling. 

But, I'm with you, I'd bring it to the association manager if no satisfactory response is offered on principle alone.  It's not about the money, it's about the reasoning.

U gotta vote to make a change!

Quote from: milorafferty on May 04, 2015, 10:52:43 AM

Now that is a good question and it has an added twist. The president and sec/tres are the two women who WOULD have won the high game and series scratch. But they lost due to handicap. But no, neither Gary nor I won anything else. The league didn't pay out the scratch awards at all. Which in my way of thinking should have made us the winners of the handicap award.

If a league doesn't pay out Scratch awards And a bowler has a zero (0) handicap.

Their scratch scores still qualify for "Handicap" awards, because scratch scores plus zero handicap is considered a legitimate handicap score.

I seen this come up before and I believe it was the USBC that said zero handicap counts as a legitimate handicap.

So Your 300 plus 0 handicap, gives you a handicap game of 300. So if no other handicap score is over 300. You should get high handicap game award.

I agree I've never bowled a league that didn't pay put both scratch and handicap but if your only paying handicap the winner should be whoever had the highest total. In you case pinfall + 0= winner

Broader question is how the prize fund distribution was shown when the league voted.  End of the season should NEVER be the first time a team saw the breakdowns...the league is supposed to vote on such things.

Excellent point!