BallReviews

General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: lsf_21 on May 15, 2018, 08:21:14 PM

Title: Is Bourbon st the worst house shot ever?
Post by: lsf_21 on May 15, 2018, 08:21:14 PM
So I have a question. Our house has put what they say is Bourbon st out this summer. The shot plays super tight to me. Inside and the ball checks super early and goes through the face or Brooklyn. Anything outside of 5 and I am more likely to get 3 than get anywhere near the headpin.

I have tried urethane, weak pearl, strong pearl, weak solid. Have a terrible look with everything.

Is this really bourbon st? And if so why is this a recreational pattern?
Title: Re: Is Bourbon st the worst house shot ever?
Post by: SVstar34 on May 15, 2018, 08:27:11 PM
The only time I've bowled on it was subbing in a 4 game scratch doubles summer league and shot 813/1050+ with my Brunswick Absolute Nirvana. If I remember correctly, I started at 10-5 and just kept moving my feet left with the same target of 5 at the breakpoint

If it really plays how you said you need to figure out how far right you can get the ball with something that is smoother so small misses left dont go through the nose
Title: Re: Is Bourbon st the worst house shot ever?
Post by: lsf_21 on May 15, 2018, 08:35:26 PM
I tried every ball I own. Best look I had was with an old twisted fury. The lack of oil in the middle confuses me. Hopefully they don't stick with this long term.

I just don't understand any kind of recreational shot that plays like a reverse block.
Title: Re: Is Bourbon st the worst house shot ever?
Post by: Jesse James on May 15, 2018, 09:03:49 PM
On reverse blocks, I used to go with a totally benign ball.....basically a weak piece that does little or nothing and then play the middle with a lot of hand!

I would also play out at 5 with a very  strong piece, if there was an out of bounds, and let the ball fall into the pocket area.

Using the weaker piece gave me more control however!
Title: Re: Is Bourbon st the worst house shot ever?
Post by: avabob on May 15, 2018, 09:33:50 PM
It is not a reverse block, it is a short psttern.  I wouldn't call it a recreational pattern however.  You have to square up and move out without going away from the pocket.
Title: Re: Is Bourbon st the worst house shot ever?
Post by: northface28 on May 15, 2018, 09:50:48 PM
Why is it that anytime there’s no swing or hold it’s a “reverse block”?
Title: Re: Is Bourbon st the worst house shot ever?
Post by: AlonzoHarris on May 16, 2018, 12:00:44 AM
Why is it that anytime there’s no swing or hold it’s a “reverse block”?

Has to be if it's "reverse" of what we're used to. Duh. Swing and hold.
Title: Re: Is Bourbon st the worst house shot ever?
Post by: Impending Doom on May 16, 2018, 07:50:28 AM
Why is it that anytime there’s no swing or hold it’s a “reverse block”?

Because for some people it's hard to imagine that from 10 right isn't in play. Them 10 to 1 ratios ruin ya!

In terms of what I've bowled on, last time I bowled on something similar, from 10 right was 45 feet of oil, and the middle was like 25. Don't remember the ratios, but really, when you get left of 10 and your ball hooks before the arrows, it doesn't matter much. I had to be soft handed with some decent surface and play up 8, and thread the needle. Only time I've ever bowled to Valpo to bowl one of Shaun's tournaments and I almost made the cut shooting 470.
Title: Re: Is Bourbon st the worst house shot ever?
Post by: tommygn on May 16, 2018, 08:01:25 AM
One thing to keep in mind, as all lane machines are not created equal, Bourbon Street utilizes drop brush at 32 feet of a 40 foot pattern (I have to be very selective with  pattern choices for my sport league as the center won't put the drop brush upgrade on their machine). If the machine they are using doesn't have drop brush, it won't lay down properly, and play correctly.

 Also, 23ml is probably more volume than you are used to seeing. Means you need something with surface to slow down and read the lane, and not dart dive off the spot. And to echo what others have said, you need to start off out and chase it in.
Title: Re: Is Bourbon st the worst house shot ever?
Post by: LookingForALeftyWall on May 16, 2018, 08:53:20 AM
Bourbon St is a 6:1 ratio pattern - it is far from a reverse block.  It's also not an easy house shot.  After bowling on it twice in the last month, my opinion is that it's the perfect gateway to tougher/flatter patterns.  I like the challenge of it.  It's still very easy to shoot par but you have to work for anything over 230.  Overall, I believe this is the type of pattern that those who are frustrated with the current high scoring environment would love to have as the THS... 

Anyway, if you are able to move your feet, change your launch angles, and have faith that you can score doing something different than what you do on the normal house shot, you will score.  Bourbon St is very hittable.  You just have to be open to trying something outside your normal comfort zone.
Title: Re: Is Bourbon st the worst house shot ever?
Post by: Good Times Good Times on May 16, 2018, 09:16:04 AM
Why is it that anytime there’s no swing or hold it’s a “reverse block”?

Because the majority of bowlers do not understand bowling theory and they do not understand the definition of terms.

Title: Re: Is Bourbon st the worst house shot ever?
Post by: lefty50 on May 16, 2018, 11:35:42 AM
For heaven's sake, ease up on the guy. Reverse block is just a generic term indicating a general lack of oil in the middle, which is reversed from the typical house shot, where there's more oil in the middle... Jeez.
Title: Re: Is Bourbon st the worst house shot ever?
Post by: Brandon Riley on May 16, 2018, 12:48:53 PM
I’ve typically kept tighter angles as the pattern plays slicker up front with less back end taper requiring me to use equipment that reads heavier up front and doesn’t hit the corner as hard down the lane.
Sanded, more even rolling balls like my xeno, Freakshow solid and hooligan taunt have been my best looks but it has been a little while since I’ve last bowled on this pattern
Title: Re: Is Bourbon st the worst house shot ever?
Post by: LookingForALeftyWall on May 16, 2018, 12:50:42 PM
For heaven's sake, ease up on the guy. Reverse block is just a generic term indicating a general lack of oil in the middle, which is reversed from the typical house shot, where there's more oil in the middle... Jeez.

While there is plenty of snark and attitude, most of the posters on this website are about educating the masses about bowling.  Calling a 6:1 shot a reverse block is just ignorant.  A 6:1 shot still has a puddle in the middle - there's just less of a wall than there usually is.  To say anything else is just flat out wrong.  Why is it wrong to call that out?  Can it be called out with less attitude?  Sure, but where's the fun in that?
Title: Re: Is Bourbon st the worst house shot ever?
Post by: DP3 on May 16, 2018, 01:14:40 PM
The shot is indicative of the real Bourbon St. While the flood in the middle has been drastically reduced, when your veer off to the sides of Bourbon Street, you typically don't come back to the middle of the street and all.

CUZ BARS & LIQUOR!! LOL111Z!

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/99/07/0d/99070db797d26ba0224030a17157f009.jpg)
Title: Re: Is Bourbon st the worst house shot ever?
Post by: avabob on May 16, 2018, 01:24:11 PM
I have never seen a reverse block.  What I have seen is lots of patterns where the oil carries down from second arrow out because most people will try to over play the swing area.  Then when that doesnt work they try to find hold that is not there in the middle.  It is the same reason you see guys hook the ball in the gutter shooting the 4 pin on a flat pattern.  No carrydown in that area yet. 

Swing area is addictive, and the majority of house shots give almost unlimited swing area.  An extra couple of loads 2 to 2 takes away the unlimited swing but is still fairly playable if you play a little straighter.

The term reverse block originally came about in the 70s and refered to a pattern where there seemed to be more oil outside than in the middle because of stripped back ends and the carrydown that immediately resulted as described above. 
Title: Re: Is Bourbon st the worst house shot ever?
Post by: lilpossum1 on May 16, 2018, 02:24:27 PM
Omg this is exactly how the shot is playing in my summer league. On the right side of the lane, anything projected outside of 7 barely wiggles. You might chop off 3 pins or a solitary 10 pin.  Anything outside of 5 is probably going in the gutter. I'm trying to learn left handed, and these characteristics are amplified on that side. Oh, and miss a couple boards inside and it is nose diving or going Brooklyn. If it even hits the head pin. Between my Diesel and Rip'd solid, I can't find the pocket trying to play the track. I don't have enough hand to move inside yet, or a ball that generates enough angle. Considering trying to move and play up the 5 with the Rip'd. How does that work on this type of shot?
Title: Re: Is Bourbon st the worst house shot ever?
Post by: HankScorpio on May 16, 2018, 02:30:41 PM
I feel like this thread is going way off course.

Bourbon Street is a tougher house shot (according to ratio), but it’s still a house shot. It should not be much more difficult than your normal house shot, if any. In fact, my home house has such a lousy shot, tournaments they run on Bourbon Street actually play easier (due to better tapering).

If you’re struggling, either:
1. The shot isn’t being put down correctly, which is always possible.
2. You’re using the wrong balls.
3. You’re just not throwing the ball very well.

It seems like you’re trying lots of different equipment, something should’ve rolled fine enough by now. It’s possible a stronger solid will blend the lane better. Otherwise, you’ll have to check with the house to see if they’re putting it down right. As another poster mentioned, it’s possible they aren’t using the drop brush. If that’s not the case, you might have to look at your own release and try to understand why it isn’t matching up to the pattern. Sucks to admit it, but sometimes it’s you.
Title: Re: Is Bourbon st the worst house shot ever?
Post by: SVstar34 on May 16, 2018, 02:35:46 PM
. If that’s not the case, you might have to look at your own release and try to understand why it isn’t matching up to the pattern. Sucks to admit it, but sometimes it’s you.

Not enough people realize this. I've run into this a few times because of my low tilt and lower axis rotation where I just don't matchup because everything I throw wants to read the lane instead of push. I've learned now when I run into this that my best shot is lofting which I'm still not great at doing
Title: Re: Is Bourbon st the worst house shot ever?
Post by: itsallaboutme on May 17, 2018, 07:00:51 AM
The pattern is flat from 14 to 14 and from 8 out.  Trying to play up 5 is sure not the answer.
Title: Re: Is Bourbon st the worst house shot ever?
Post by: avabob on May 17, 2018, 08:30:27 AM
How long is it
Title: Re: Is Bourbon st the worst house shot ever?
Post by: SVstar34 on May 17, 2018, 08:37:01 AM
How long is it

40ft
Title: Re: Is Bourbon st the worst house shot ever?
Post by: BeerLeague on May 17, 2018, 10:22:31 AM
It is not a reverse block, it is a short psttern.  I wouldn't call it a recreational pattern however.  You have to square up and move out without going away from the pocket.

That's a lost art these days .... asking the house pro's to do anything besides playing head belly from 15 out is like pulling teeth.
Title: Re: Is Bourbon st the worst house shot ever?
Post by: Good Times Good Times on May 17, 2018, 10:31:23 AM
OH MY GOD THERE'S OB AND NO HOLD! 
Title: Re: Is Bourbon st the worst house shot ever?
Post by: Impending Doom on May 17, 2018, 12:14:36 PM
OH MY GOD THERE'S OB AND NO HOLD!

I've literally seen people go atomic and throw their stuff in a bag and walk out of tournaments for this reason. #DNF
Title: Re: Is Bourbon st the worst house shot ever?
Post by: avabob on May 17, 2018, 02:36:07 PM
This started in the late 70s.  ABC was so concerned about using oil to steer the ball to the pocket, that they came up with some ill advised lane conditioning rules.  They certainly took away the hold area, but the short oil allowed gir unlimited swing area.  By the time they figured this out and promulgated a rule requiring at least 3 units of oil to the gutter, resin balls were coming in the pretty much made 3 units of oil like nothing.   The result is that  we are now 35 years into an environment that allows unlimited swing area unless you are competing on something other than a pure top hat condition. 

The sad thing is that a little bit of taper is more playable than the THS once you learn to cut the angles down.
Title: Re: Is Bourbon st the worst house shot ever?
Post by: SVstar34 on May 17, 2018, 02:59:23 PM
The sad thing is that a little bit of taper is more playable than the THS once you learn to cut the angles down.

This. I feel like the lower ratio "house shots" are easier. If I remember correctly, Bourbon is around 7.5/1 and Wall Street is around 9/1 while the other kegel rec patterns are over 10/1. In the summer doubles league I've bowled I think I've averaged 235+ on Bourbon and Wall Street.

Kegel lowered the ratios more on the patterns they created for the Flex machines but the only one I've bowled on is the 47' Statue of Liberty challenge pattern and I cashed in a tournament on it
Title: Re: Is Bourbon st the worst house shot ever?
Post by: BeerLeague on May 18, 2018, 09:16:36 AM

The sad thing is that a little bit of taper is more playable than the THS once you learn to cut the angles down.

I agree 100% ... the over/under caused by the mega-walls is minimized.  The problem is the house heros will blow up the middle of the lane by refusing to go straighter.