Author Topic: Is bowling ruined for good? (Read 21555 times)

BeerLeague · « **on:** January 18, 2017, 08:39:13 AM »

Not to beat a dead horse here, but it has been bugging me lately.

I see people averaging 220+ on "house" conditions, with no real versatility, and no game other than big revs. Their spare shooting sucks. I see guys that can miss by 5 boards in or out and still crush the pocket. The same guys can easily shoot 450 without the free hook outside and hold inside.

I also see guys in more competitive leagues, where the shot is intentionally challenging, bring a 20X average into a tourney and get pins. These same guys can average 220+ on walls. This hardly seems ethical and it hurts turnout.

I guess my point is ... Can we PLEASE get rid of wall shots? I remember the local USBC/ABC office would run tapes regularly to check for illegal "block" shots, which are known as "walls" or "THS" today. What happened?

The combination of reactive resin equipment, blocked walls, and pins that fly like crazy has turned bowling into parody of itself. Shot making is no longer rewarded and accuracy seems to have taken a backseat to power. If you have both, then you are deadly but us mere mortals cannot hit dimes while putting 500 RPM on the ball.... and that brings up the 2 handed / thumb-less argument which I will not engage in but I will say I believe it should be illegal.

I know its an old, worn out subject, but the game has been destroyed. Some people will argue that it has evolved. I reject that. Where is the real test of skill?

I think we could take a lesson from the PGA .... they got rid of square grooves (to put premium on accuracy over power and hit fairways), and make anchored putting illegal (it gives the golfer a physical advantage). You can draw the same parallels to bowling....

LookingForALeftyWall · « **Reply #61 on:** January 29, 2018, 08:39:05 AM »

A good 80-90% of house heros averaging 230+ on THS know they can't compete with the pros on tougher shots. Even the ones who puff out their chests telling others they are the best. Bowlers are self aware - don't kid yourself else wise. The other 10-20% are delusional.

The thing is, good bowlers know what is real and what is not. Let's stop pretending that they don't.

tommygn · « **Reply #62 on:** January 29, 2018, 10:09:25 AM »

Quote from: Luke Morningwood on January 18, 2017, 10:47:09 AM

It has been pretty well proven that higher scores tend to create happy (and scoring entitled) customers.

-The continued decline in all of bowling.

-The decline in scratch leagues compared to an increase in "fun" leagues with people that don't care about score.

The larger decline in sanctioned leagues compared to the overall retention of bowlers.

ALL this while scores keep rising and rising. The "easy lanes makes happy and more customers" is a myth.

-Cleanliness of the center and bathrooms.

-Friendless of the staff.

-Ease of accessibility into the center.

-Total cost of the evening.

All, more important to how easy or hard lane conditions are.

HackJandy · « **Reply #63 on:** January 29, 2018, 10:33:15 AM »

Quote from: tommygn on January 29, 2018, 10:09:25 AM

Quote from: Luke Morningwood on January 18, 2017, 10:47:09 AM

It has been pretty well proven that higher scores tend to create happy (and scoring entitled) customers.

-The continued decline in all of bowling.

-The decline in scratch leagues compared to an increase in "fun" leagues with people that don't care about score.

The larger decline in sanctioned leagues compared to the overall retention of bowlers.

ALL this while scores keep rising and rising. The "easy lanes makes happy and more customers" is a myth.

-Cleanliness of the center and bathrooms.

-Friendless of the staff.

-Ease of accessibility into the center.

-Total cost of the evening.

All, more important to how easy or hard lane conditions are.

I would rather bowling the game survive even if bowling the sport is dying on its ass. I love the game and want to see the alleys stay open at least in my area. Plus I am old enough to know bowling the sport isn't going to take me real far at this point in my middle aged life and can make bowling the game seem like a job which is the last thing I want. I guess some people really want to continue to make money bowling and that is great but there are many of us who don't and I have more than done my fair share to pump money into the bowling economy.

Kegler300800 · « **Reply #64 on:** January 29, 2018, 11:01:45 AM »

Quote from: MI 2 AZ on January 28, 2018, 10:07:08 PM

I think my spinner release is probably the worst.

I, too, have spinner release. I don't have to make as many moves as the 3/4 rollers when the lanes change. It has its advantages.

xrayjay · « **Reply #65 on:** January 29, 2018, 11:14:19 AM »

Quote from: Kegler300800 on January 29, 2018, 11:01:45 AM

Quote from: MI 2 AZ on January 28, 2018, 10:07:08 PM
I think my spinner release is probably the worst.

I, too, have spinner release. I don't have to make as many moves as the 3/4 rollers when the lanes change. It has its advantages.

Those spinners at league do shoot some high scores.....specially in my second shift dried out conditions.... sucks to have low tilt.....

2handedrook12 · « **Reply #66 on:** January 29, 2018, 07:56:46 PM »

I want to know what people think of the pros that average 225 on house when there are people in the 240s. My opinion, there are two different skills on the elite spectrum of the game. Some have both, but it's not very often. One side, people are able to strike a lot when they are easier, but better than most people are capable of. The other, people are able to repeat at a very high level on patterns designed for bowlers to pay when they miss by 2 boards or so.

Impending Doom · « **Reply #67 on:** January 29, 2018, 09:40:02 PM »

Bowling isn't ruined. No matter if you use 2 hands, or you're a crazy hybrid kinda Tom Smallwood. Lefty, righty. Use plastic, urethane, resin, particle, epoxy, rubber or wood.
The system that governs us have let the children run the damn daycare. If we would enforce certain lane maintenance rules and set our standard high, bowling could be great again. Even IN SPITE of the bowlers wishes themselves. Centers have to enforce rules, and watch as their income dips a bit, but there WOULD be an upswing in open play, by both recreational and serious bowlers. How long that might take, I couldn't tell you, but with the amount of centers going out of business around me, what do we have to lose?

We've let ourselves get here by being lazy as a whole. Given averages and scores that we don't deserve. Entitlement, I believe it's called.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, because there is no place I'd rather be than in a center. Bowling as we know it needs to die so a new reality can be viable.

Would history repeat itself? I sure hope not. I'm growing 4 avid bowlers (girls at that), and I wonder what they'll get excited about.

HackJandy · « **Reply #68 on:** January 29, 2018, 09:53:59 PM »

>We've let ourselves get here by being lazy as a whole. Given averages and scores that we don't deserve. Entitlement, I believe it's called.

I don't think that is completely fair. I just have went by the rules in place and would be fine if only sports patterns were allowed as I love the game not the high scores. I got pissed about the USBC talking about banning balls I already own not because I need high diffs to score but because spent a fair amount of money on an arsenal in good faith which they aren't acting in because they sat on their ass for 15+ years doing nothing as you say being lazy. If the rules only change for balls going forward fine with that as well for example. Don't personally think there is anything that wrong with bowling in my area except perhaps for Bowlmor owning too many of the centers (which do seem to be a little more healthy than lots of mom and pops out there sounds like, and to be fair one league card for most the centers is nice). There are plenty of different leagues for various skill levels who seem to be doing ok but I also live in the middle of a large metro area. Peace and quiet are nice and all but living in BFE also has a ton of draw backs including less bowling options.

Impending Doom · « **Reply #69 on:** January 29, 2018, 10:16:56 PM »

Equipment isn't the problem and I wish USBC would get that. The lane man is the equalizer. I never hear anyone anywhere say the Peterson is easy. One year, I was using plastic in 6th arrow on one lane and used my resin ball playing fallback on the other lane.

And you know what? My statement may not seem fair, but it's the truth. As a whole we didn't want to work to get better, we just wanted to be better. WE here are the 1% that do want better, but we are over run by the vast amounts of people just wanting to score.

I work in IT. I work with Linux, Windows, and (ugh) MacOS all day. When you create a user that is supposed to have particular permissions and access to certain things, you give them that. Now in Windows, you're given full admin, and can basically screw up whatever you want, if on accident or on purpose.

When you get a user to the spot where they've been given the permissions and access to do their job, and you say the word given, they feel exactly the opposite when we have to take away certain things from a Windows user. Because those things have been taken from them. It's a perception issue. Get to the same place, and one user feels good about the rights they've been given, and one user gets mad because you took away rights they weren't supposed to have.

This change over would entail a lot of people getting upset. But you don't make an omelet without breaking some eggs.

agroves · « **Reply #70 on:** January 29, 2018, 10:45:13 PM »

IMO these things are overdue:

-Max diff at .050

-Increase bowling ball hardness by 5%

-set and enforcing a ratio rule of 10:1 for 2019
â€”reduce the ratio to 9:1 for 2020
â€”reduce the ratio to 8:1 for 2021
....go all the way to 6:1 slowly reducing the ratio over a half decade
Then, sanction leagues as recreational, challenge and sport

-Lastly, increase dues to $50 annually. This is necessary to run a governing body. Ffs people pay $50 just for the privilege to shop at Costco

HackJandy · « **Reply #71 on:** January 30, 2018, 10:47:59 AM »

Quote from: agroves on January 29, 2018, 10:45:13 PM

IMO these things are overdue:

-Max diff at .050

-Increase bowling ball hardness by 5%

-set and enforcing a ratio rule of 10:1 for 2019
â€”reduce the ratio to 9:1 for 2020
â€”reduce the ratio to 8:1 for 2021
....go all the way to 6:1 slowly reducing the ratio over a half decade
Then, sanction leagues as recreational, challenge and sport

-Lastly, increase dues to $50 annually. This is necessary to run a governing body. Ffs people pay $50 just for the privilege to shop at Costco

Costco offers clear benefits. USBC does not at least for rec leagues which the corporate bowling centers themselves can handle perfectly well. Granted if I was going to put my own money at risk I would agree $50 to make sure its fair would be reasonable but even then how good are they at making it fair. People suck and will cheat when they can for money (even see sandbagging in my rec league for absolutely no reason why except ego I guess). The other edge to not putting my money at risk is I don't give a rats ass about the other guy's equipment. I sure look at my own series score (only thing that matters to me) more than wins or loses. I may be the minority but perfectly fine with that. At some point maybe I will get sanctioned for tournaments but only once I see how this equipment debacle shakes out. In no rush.

avabob · « **Reply #72 on:** January 30, 2018, 01:20:26 PM »

It seems to me we have evolved to the point where everyone understands that the competitive game is played on more demanding conditions than the recreational game. I think the important thing is to make the competitive environment readily available to youth as they develop their game. I dont know of any tournament bowler who wants to play for money on a house shot. Big difference from 30 years ago when nobody knew how to put out a challenging but fair pattern.

HackJandy · « **Reply #73 on:** January 30, 2018, 01:39:34 PM »

Quote from: avabob on January 30, 2018, 01:20:26 PM

It seems to me we have evolved to the point where everyone understands that the competitive game is played on more demanding conditions than the recreational game. I think the important thing is to make the competitive environment readily available to youth as they develop their game. I font know of any tournament bowler who wants to play foroney on a house shot. Big difference from 30 years ago when nobody knew how yo put out a challenging but fair pattern.

+1. The biggest mistake that can be make is conflating the two. Don't ruin the game trying to save the sport. Save the sport by getting kids to fall in love with the game and as said make the path to the sport side easy if the youth so choose.

bradl · « **Reply #74 on:** January 30, 2018, 04:23:05 PM »

Quote from: Impending Doom on January 29, 2018, 10:16:56 PM

Equipment isn't the problem and I wish USBC would get that. The lane man is the equalizer. I never hear anyone anywhere say the Peterson is easy. One year, I was using plastic in 6th arrow on one lane and used my resin ball playing fallback on the other lane.

And you know what? My statement may not seem fair, but it's the truth. As a whole we didn't want to work to get better, we just wanted to be better. WE here are the 1% that do want better, but we are over run by the vast amounts of people just wanting to score.

I work in IT. I work with Linux, Windows, and (ugh) MacOS all day. When you create a user that is supposed to have particular permissions and access to certain things, you give them that. Now in Windows, you're given full admin, and can basically screw up whatever you want, if on accident or on purpose.

When you get a user to the spot where they've been given the permissions and access to do their job, and you say the word given, they feel exactly the opposite when we have to take away certain things from a Windows user. Because those things have been taken from them. It's a perception issue. Get to the same place, and one user feels good about the rights they've been given, and one user gets mad because you took away rights they weren't supposed to have.

This change over would entail a lot of people getting upset. But you don't make an omelet without breaking some eggs.

I'm with you on this. Been a Linux SysAdmin for 25 years, and MacOS certified. Had to absorb MySQL, PostgreSQL, and MSSQL server admin by osmosis, and you're completely correct here. Solve one problem by giving someone full access, and they blow everything up. Then they come to expect that, because they need that access to get their job done. When you finally bring security controls into place, they scream bloody murder about it because they can't get their work done, complain higher up the chain to someone who overrides your work and better judgment, causing you to have to give them back their access again.

When when they do cause a problem, it's on you to pick up the pieces and fix it, thanks to their bungling.

Oh yeah.. been there and done that, way too many times.

BL.

2handedvolcano · « **Reply #75 on:** January 30, 2018, 04:32:38 PM »

Yes I'd say so the numbers are too low

Author Topic: Is bowling ruined for good? (Read 21555 times)

BeerLeague

Is bowling ruined for good?

LookingForALeftyWall

Re: Is bowling ruined for good?

tommygn

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HackJandy

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Kegler300800

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xrayjay

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2handedrook12

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Impending Doom

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HackJandy

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Impending Doom

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agroves

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HackJandy

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avabob

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HackJandy

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bradl

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2handedvolcano

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