BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: bcw1969 on August 02, 2014, 10:44:39 AM
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Is there, or has there ever been a ball with a reactive cover at least as weak as my Lane #1 Bullet, but that has a stronger core?? I can't think of anything, but if there is, I wouldn't mind having a ball like that.
Brad
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I don't know the bullett, but the Lane Masters Hornet from several years ago had a strong core with a pretty weak cover. Great dry lane ball.
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Look at some Brunswick stuff with PK 17 covers.....
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Ebonite Cyclone, Hammer Spike, or Columbia Freeze or Columbia Blur?
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Ebonite Cyclone, Hammer Spike, or Columbia Freeze or Columbia Blur?
I wouldn't consider the covers on the Cyclone or Freeze to be weak at all.
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Brunswick Power Groove and Power Groove dry/r. The core has a high rg and a medium diff. What people don't know is it's actually asymmetrical because the two small hockey puck cores arent exact in location.
The ball has to be spun on a determinator to locate the psa/mb then draw a line 6 3/4" back through the cg to locate the pin. I have 4 ive done this with and the pin is typically 1-2" further from the cg then marked.
Morich Sahara and Mojave also fit the bill using pk17.
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Ebonite Cyclone, Hammer Spike, or Columbia Freeze or Columbia Blur?
I wouldn't consider the covers on the Cyclone or Freeze to be weak at all.
Well, they use some of the legacy coverstocks that were strong when they first came out years ago but are weak in comparison to the newer tech. Just like PowerKoil17, introduced on the high-end Zones back in the 90's and now used on the lower line balls.
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Ebonite Cyclone, Hammer Spike, or Columbia Freeze or Columbia Blur?
I wouldn't consider the covers on the Cyclone or Freeze to be weak at all.
Well, they use some of the legacy coverstocks that were strong when they first came out years ago but are weak in comparison to the newer tech. Just like PowerKoil17, introduced on the high-end Zones back in the 90's and now used on the lower line balls.
I thought the Cyclone was GB 10.7, same cover as the Gamebreaker.
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Ebonite Cyclone, Hammer Spike, or Columbia Freeze or Columbia Blur?
I wouldn't consider the covers on the Cyclone or Freeze to be weak at all.
Well, they use some of the legacy coverstocks that were strong when they first came out years ago but are weak in comparison to the newer tech. Just like PowerKoil17, introduced on the high-end Zones back in the 90's and now used on the lower line balls.
I thought the Cyclone was GB 10.7, same cover as the Gamebreaker.
Ebonite used GB 10.7 on The One and the Gamebreaker. It is almost 10 year old technology. The Cyclone comes out of the box at 4000 Abralon and then polished with Factory Finish Polish, which is going to make the ball perfect for lighter volumes of oil or shorter patterns. The Cyclone will be very weak for most bowlers on medium/medium heavy conditions.
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Using that logic, Storm's R2S is a weak cover.
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There has NOT be any technological advances in coverstocks since 1997...
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Using that logic, Storm's R2S is a weak cover.
:) :):) ;) :)
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Ebonite Cyclone, Hammer Spike, or Columbia Freeze or Columbia Blur?
I wouldn't consider the covers on the Cyclone or Freeze to be weak at all.
Well, they use some of the legacy coverstocks that were strong when they first came out years ago but are weak in comparison to the newer tech. Just like PowerKoil17, introduced on the high-end Zones back in the 90's and now used on the lower line balls.
Please remember that a ball is core + coverstock.
While Pk 17 covers have bee put n weaker cores, 10.7, and New Era coverstocks have bene put n medium and stronger cores to produce medium-oil required oil patterns, unless you ar a speed dominant player.
PK17 has been put on VERY weak cores like the Power Groove (high RG and medium diff) and the Slingshot (high Rg and very low differential) cores to produce very weak balls.
Cyclones and Freezes (and now Blurs) are NOT dry or light oil balls. Slingshots were.
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Length is predicated on cover stock material strength plus surface prep...you can take the 'strongest' cover and smooth up to minimize reaction...the core is only effective if the cover slows down properly and is allowed to effect
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Going way back, the old Battle Zone Cannon was one of the best dry lane balls ever. Low rg core that would rev up quick, but real tame cover. The best newer dry lane ball I have thrown is the Cobalt Vibe, but they are getting hard to find. It also has a relatively strong core but a tame shell.
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The reason I posted this is that I can't/don't move inside and swing the ball--it just isn't me and has never worked well the times I have attempted it....so I always square up and play down and in on everything(if at all possible). My league shot is no problem to do that, but when I have done these "big-money" tournaments in my state of Florida, the typical pattern(s) don't naturally allow me to do that. To compensate I have roughed up covers on certain balls to really low grits and can play straight up the out of bounds on the left side(I'm a lefty) with varying degrees of success. Even on these patterns I can play straight up the 2nd arrow with my Lane #1 bullet(normally it is only my spare ball when I need one), I can get the length I need with the bullet on that type of pattern without the ball reacting early and crossing over---something that with the squeaky clean bone dry backends just about nothing else will hold pocket----however when the bullet gets to the 1-2 pocket on those shots, it's not driving very well--and the leaves sometimes reveals a lack of drive.
I have the balls cover as tame as it can be and with polish....I understand that I could remove the polish and/or take it to a rougher grit for it to drive a bit better , but on these type of patterns I have played on and will again over labor day weekend, an earlier reaction is usually an overreaction. Over memorial day weekend I bowled in a 20,000 tourney in Orlando and the pattern was a 38 foot heavy volume pattern--the numbers closely resembled the usbc masters pattern as far as volume length..playing up the out of bounds wasn't working , so I ended up using a clear wolf
that I picked up just for the 2 tourneys I bowled in that weekend and on that 38 ft pattern was able to stroke that ball over the 2nd arrow and hold pocket, wasn't striking but was able to bowl well enough to cash.
I guess ideally what I would love to find is a ball that will allow me to play those tournament patters like I do in league--stroking it straight up the 2nd arrow, but hit harder than the plastic and have a more powerful motor than the low diff bullet.
I imagine that now that I own a clear wolf I could use that as my spare ball for the tourneys and then I could play around with the bullet--cover change or even drilling change, but it is already on it's 3rd drill, I picked it up a few years back from Charlest
already on it's 2nd drill. I imagine a flare hole and a stronger drilling with the pin outside the ring finger could help achieve what I would like?
Brad
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The type of cover does not constitute how 'hard' a ball will 'hit' it is merely whether or not the bowling ball has slowed down properly to allow the bowling ball to react properly and/or knock down 10 pins...it's CoR
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Instead of trying to find a ball to play the same area on any condition. Why not practice bettering your game to adjust on the lanes as the lanes dictate?
Altering your release alone can allow you to play the same area with the same ball as the lanes transition.
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Once the heads go it is almost impossible to play up and in with any piece of equipment, unless you can really go straight with decent speed. I know a couple of really good seniors who can do that, and have won tens of thousands in the mega buck tourneys without moving inside of 10 board. However you aren't going to stay with the kids who can really open them up deep inside. I can go pretty straight, but my medium speed forces me to move left and follow the oil regardless of how tame a ball I find. Even urethane is a problem, because the heads usually get dry enough that I cant square up unless there is something way out.
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The guy who holds the PBA record for high 8 game block was able to adjust and take the lanes almost completely out of play by playing hard and straight.
The key is being able to adjust. As mentioned there comes a point where the lanes will not allow you to stay and play the same shot no matter the ball.....unless you change your way of throwing the ball.
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Equipment is designed to conquer the environment...not visa versa...the environment ALWAYS WINS
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Therein lies the quandary. Very few guys are able to play the gamut of hard and straight vs hooking the lane with revs. At either extreme a person becomes something of a niche player. Also as I mentioned before, the style of play by the rest of the field has a huge impact. High rev guys usually take a lot of options out of play quickly with what their revs do to the pattern. On the bright side it is sometimes possible for straighter guys to play far enough out that they don't run into the really burnt area until late.
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The guy is left handed. When is the last time the lane blew up on the left?
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More often than you think in this day and age of boomers lofting the gutter cap, and starting at 5th arrow.
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More times than not, bowlers read how they are supposed to play a condition, effecting the lanes improperly...lane gets blown up less than most think.
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It doesn't happen way more often than I think, I'm pretty on top of the game.
With current tournament formats it is very rare to see guys throwing over the gutter, and there are very few guys that can actually do it and strike.
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Exactly....more times than not guys think using surface to open up a condition is merely mutating it into an unplayable condition...
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Even the best power players are going to blow up a pattern much faster than straighter low rev guys. It happens at the highest levels. I remember when Tommy Baker came out and dominated the seniors his first couple of season. His ball reps told me that despite his success in the one major with the kids, that he couldn't handle the transitions when he bowled regular tour stops with the kids. He scored much higher on the same patterns in senior tourneys than in regular stops. I have experienced the same thing at a much lower level in local scratch organizations.
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Quite honestly you are referring to an extremely limited situation...that is an environment that 99% of the bowling community will NEVER encounter...NEVER
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The OP is a left-hander that doesn't want to move off the big dot. None of this talk about power players blowing up a pattern will effect him.
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Right of 20 is nosebleed area.
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Admittedly I can be quite stubborn when it comes to my bowling....I want to be as comfortable as I can be, as often as I can be. Does it always work? No--however there is a more practical reason for my "stubbornness". I do not generate enough natural recovery with my style to really be effective moving more inside. In the past when I have tried that, even with more aggressive equipment, I just never got a good and strong reaction trying to do that. Now that I have had a spinner the last few years , I have been able to really experiment with surfaces, and I don't see why, with the right ball & surface, that a bowler couldn't be "himself" --or at his most comfortable on any condition? For years I have always said "I'd rather change balls than change me"
Brad
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If you're good enough you can play anywhere you want. Most of us move to find the most lane aid we can find.
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Equipment is designed to conquer a condition...if you try to make a bowling ball fit a condition the condition wins...everytime
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Understand in the past, a bowler could in certain situations 'over-power' a lane by ability...in today's environment, that is FAR less likely...between the bowling balls being used to mutilate the playing field and conditioners having additives that tend to force players into similars areas on the playing field, it is highly not recommended thinking one can choose a bowling ball that will allow then to either play a desired area of the lane or create an area...especially on the left side with less traffic and a smoother playing surface...bowlers want to rely on equipment to 'fix' inadequencies in their games instead of improving their games and using the equipment properly
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This thread = A+ ;D
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My Lack Of versatility has not always served me well. Historically in the past when stroking it up the 2nd arrow, when that went away, rather than moving in with the feet and swinging the ball out, I would either ball down and keep the same line or I would move outside around the 1st arrow and be fine. That strategy served me well, at least for league bowling. I was averaging in the 190's for a number of years..and over time gaining knowledge about equipment and discovering what balls matched up best with me I had finally became a 200 average bowler. I was really hitting my stride. around 2006/2007 or so I averaged 218 in a shorter summer league...During the 2008 -2009 fall season I was throwing 700's left and right. By the 2nd half of that season around Jan 2009, my home center was sold and changed hands twice within a very very short time and the new regime totally changed everything. The Lanes had been very heavily oiled before the sale---there were some weeks where I was using my Visionary Midnight Scorcher first out of the bag, but now there was very little oil being put out and I struggled terribly.
If I had been proficient at moving inside and swinging the ball out , that would have helped, but me being me I didn't go that direction. I focused on the equipment --taming surfaces and getting other milder equipment to combat the lesser volume of oil. What happened that season was I went from a 219 average at the end of Jan 2009 and finished the season at 197..I dropped 22 pins in the last few months, it was ugly. For the next few seasons, I was focusing on the equipment and adjusting it, or buying a more compatible piece, rather than on "me" and in those few years after instead of averaging 219, it was a rare event for me to even have a game that high---I said I was stubborn--so much so that even after my average dropped to the high 170's I wouldn't touch myself. This Past season I did make a change the past few months of the season. I effectively upped my ball speed approx. 1mph, from 14 - 14.5 mph to 15-15.5 mph average, and just that extra 1 mph made a huge difference in equipment I could use and how I could still play the lanes successfully.
I did not use the textbook classical way to get more speed--faster feet or a higher pushaway---I was simply coming through the ball better at the bottom of the swing and end of the shot without muscling the shot. Now it is becoming very natural for me now to have the extra mile of speed, however the way I did it, I didn't achieve accuracy right off the bat, but that is coming---I guess for me I could say like the moon astronauts "One small step in adjusting, but one giant leap in my production".
I definatly feel it coming back to me. Can I go further in being able to adjust me when the situation dictates it, sure, but this is a good start for me, and I am pretty excited about the fall season believing my average will get back to where it used to be. This is just where I am at right now. I do understand and appreciate the spirit and the heart behind many of the responses, good stuff.
Brad
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If your average dropped 40 pins you need lessons not bowling balls. 40 pins isn't bad ball reaction. That's not what you want to hear, but….
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Sounds like 95% of the league bowlers I know.
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I don't mind hearing peoples comments.....believe me, if I wasn't me and hadn't been me all these years, I'd be right there with you saying the same thing to someone like me. Actually my physical game is not really all that deficient and I have always been good at repeating shots----just not always the "right" shot. That was no typo earlier---I really have been THAT stubborn through the years...it's like that old song "I've gotta be me, I've gotta be me" ...but I probably have gotten way too accepting of what I am not, rather than finding other ways to be what I want to be.
Brad
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Actually my physical game is not really all that deficient and I have always been good at repeating shots----just not always the "right" shot.
Not logical....
If you can't adjust and execute the "right" shot, how is your game not all that deficient? You're game is exceptionally deficient if you are great at only 1 thing.
Our goal should be to play in the correct zone of the lane, if our preferred zone is not available the answer isn't "let's find a way to make it available".
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I may have used the wrong word(s) to say what I wanted....I didn't mean to imply that I am a complete bowler. I guess I meant style-wise or form wise I am not in need of extensive renovation.
"Our goal should be to play in the correct zone of the lane, if our preferred zone is not available the answer isn't "let's find a way to make it available". "
Those sentiments have been articulated by a few people in this discussion...is that a prevalent thought process in people because "a way to make it available" is not possible? or just easier for most people to "play a different zone"?
Brad
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It's called playing what the lanes give you...otherwise you are fighting an uphill battle and the bowler always loses...
YOU CAN'T OUTBOWL BAD BALL REACTION
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Getting lessons at the end of last season and going into this year is the best money I have spent. More so then any bowling ball. I have limited options locally for lessons and tried the online route instead with HYBC that was found through this website.
I have been extremely happy and was able to get back what I lost last year and then some. Last year was my worst season in years. Dropped my average several pins and couldn't tell what I was doing wrong. Lessons had never crossed my mind in years passed, but I'm glad I did it.
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Once I get off the injured list, lessons are the first thing on my mind.
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HYBC offers a great video analysis lesson program...geared towards anyone
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HYBC offers a great video analysis lesson program...geared towards anyone
+1
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HYBC offers a great video analysis lesson program...geared towards anyone
+1
+1 as well
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How does this Video Analysis work? What is the cost? I didn't see anything on the website about it but maybe I'm an idiot.
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email them and they will get you all of the information needed.
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email them and they will get you all of the information needed.
Ok thanks Kidlost
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Our website isn't properly updated as we've had a lot going on so as far as I know, you're not an idiot (:
Please email us at HYBowlingConcepts@yahoo.com for more details
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OP, any way to get a vid of you in your approach playing your A game vs you attempting to move in and open the lane up? Maybe we (multiple trained eyes) could suggest something to work on that may unlock something.......
Just a suggestion....