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Author Topic: Jayhawk Detox, check it out!  (Read 19856 times)

Gizmo823

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Jayhawk Detox, check it out!
« on: January 06, 2014, 08:29:44 AM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfuRaHrpogE

For those that haven't seen it or heard of it yet.  I don't know how much it costs, but the results appear to be there. 
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

 

ccrider

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Re: Jayhawk Detox, check it out!
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2014, 06:28:44 PM »
Is this suppose to be better than using a rejuvenator oven?

Not impressed with the before and after video. May be if they were using throbot.

lefty50

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Re: Jayhawk Detox, check it out!
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2014, 08:34:58 PM »
Not impressed with the difference in before and after shots? I naturally assume you're joking. The difference is clear, and as expected.
However, at $1,795.... Not geared to the personal market.

kidlost2000

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Re: Jayhawk Detox, check it out!
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2014, 10:05:36 PM »
Unless there is something special about the heat source of the water anyone at home can achieve the same results with hot water by using household items.

I tested my idea on the stove tonight and will post a video tomorrow. I can acheive a steady temprature of 125 degrees more or less easily withen minutes. It also shows the effectiveness of hot air, hot water, and running water as a way to trasnfer energy. Running water is most effective, hot water is the next, and air is last. All will work better then doing nothing.

Brunswick through there testing reccommends not exceeding 150 degrees and suggest 125-150 as ideal. The Seimic steamer is at 212 degrees which I would not ever consider doing at any point.


Many fast food restaurants and others have machines that do the exact same thing. Here is a diy link


http://food-hacks.wonderhowto.com/how-to/cook-food-perfectly-home-with-super-cheap-diy-sous-vide-machine-0148452/

or the other option


http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/store/product/sousvide-supreme-demi-temperature-controlled-water-oven-in-red/1017819020?device=c&network=g&matchtype=&mcid=PS_googlepla_nonbrand_kitchenelectrics_&gclid=CJTRmMXZ7bsCFY1FMgodhkAArw
…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

Steven

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Re: Jayhawk Detox, check it out!
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2014, 12:30:36 AM »

I tested my idea on the stove tonight and will post a video tomorrow. I can acheive a steady temprature of 125 degrees more or less easily withen minutes. It also shows the effectiveness of hot air, hot water, and running water as a way to trasnfer energy. Running water is most effective, hot water is the next, and air is last. All will work better then doing nothing.


Looking forward to seeing your video. I don't want to get into contest over air vs. water, since they both work. But I do want to understand your conclusion that air is lacking in some level of effectiveness. It defies my own experience.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2014, 12:33:31 AM by Steven »

kidlost2000

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Re: Jayhawk Detox, check it out!
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2014, 12:36:33 AM »
No problem. There's a reason food thaws quicker under cold running water vs a counter top at room temperature.  Get and ice cube and try it under cold running water then at room temp or an oven. Its very interesting.

My vid will be edited and up in the morning.
…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

kidlost2000

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Re: Jayhawk Detox, check it out!
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2014, 08:34:58 AM »
Here is the video link once it is loaded


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGhEJqIEP-E&feature=youtu.be


…… you can't  add a physics term to a bowling term and expect it to mean something.

Gizmo823

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Re: Jayhawk Detox, check it out!
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2014, 09:20:45 AM »
It's Russ Wilson throwing the shots . . the guy basically IS throbot.  Collegiate national champion with WSU, has an Open Championships eagle, is Jayhawk's pro shop equipment sales manager, IBPSIA vice president and instructor, and we haven't even started talking about his wife yet.  Not exactly the kind of guy you want to get in a bowling debate or pot game with, if your intent is to win, anyway. 

Is this suppose to be better than using a rejuvenator oven?

Not impressed with the before and after video. May be if they were using throbot.
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

spmcgivern

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Re: Jayhawk Detox, check it out!
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2014, 10:13:30 AM »
Looking forward to seeing your video. I don't want to get into contest over air vs. water, since they both work. But I do want to understand your conclusion that air is lacking in some level of effectiveness. It defies my own experience.

Simple thermodynamics.  You don't even need running water to prove it.  Take two frozen items (chicken for instance) and put one in a bowl of ice cold water and one in an empty bowl and put them both in the fridge.  Even though the environment is the same temperature (ice cold water and refrigerator) the chicken in the water will thaw faster.  There is simply more thermal mass in the water to transfer heat to the frozen item.

ccrider

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Re: Jayhawk Detox, check it out!
« Reply #24 on: January 08, 2014, 12:41:34 PM »
No, I am not impressed. I don't question the bowler's ability to repeat shots. However, with the goal being to show how much better the ball reads the lane after going through the detox, I will not accept that the bowler does not, at least subjectively adjust his release in order to facilitate meeting the goal.

He is not throbot. He is human. Howevr, if you wish  to believe that this is an objective way to assess the before and after affect of using the detox, drink the kool-aid man, drink it till you are full.

Not impressed with the difference in before and after shots? I naturally assume you're joking. The difference is clear, and as expected.
However, at $1,795.... Not geared to the personal market.

Steven

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Re: Jayhawk Detox, check it out!
« Reply #25 on: January 08, 2014, 01:15:26 PM »
No problem. There's a reason food thaws quicker under cold running water vs a counter top at room temperature.  Get and ice cube and try it under cold running water then at room temp or an oven. Its very interesting.

My vid will be edited and up in the morning.


I checked out the vid. Nice work. I wish I had your video production skills.


You definitely proved the fastest method for melting an ice cube. I'm not a scientist, so I don't know if demonstrating methods for melting ice absolutely translates to efficiency in oil extraction. For the sake of argument, I'll accept the principle -- heat transfer through water is a more efficient transfer method than heat through air.


But what I'm equally interested in is final effectiveness. Elapsed time aside, are you saying that water based methods will extract more oil from the ball than air?? In other words, if you evaluate the Brunswick study and their conclusions:


http://www.innovativebowling.com/products/brunswick%20oven%20research.html


Would they have reported more effective results if they had used a water based method instead of controlled hot air in a ball oven?? Given Brunswick's conclusions, I'm not sure there is much room for a more positive outcome, but I'd like to hear your insights.

Strider

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Re: Jayhawk Detox, check it out!
« Reply #26 on: January 08, 2014, 01:40:14 PM »
Don't forget that in addition to Jayhawk's new Detox, Powerhouse introduced the Wave about a year ago, so there seems to be a trend towards water based systems for removing oil.

http://powerhousebowling.com/news/news_detail/powerhousetm_wave_brings_ball_care_out_of_the_kitchen

Gizmo823

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Re: Jayhawk Detox, check it out!
« Reply #27 on: January 08, 2014, 01:48:15 PM »
Oh, because it wouldn't look bad at all for Jayhawk to sell an $1800 piece of equipment that actually doesn't work because they tried to fake a video to move units?  You're not questioning the video here, you're questioning the integrity of everyone involved with the video and the development and production of this piece of equipment.  I don't drink kool-aid, I trust the people at Jayhawk.  If they say it works, it works. 

No, I am not impressed. I don't question the bowler's ability to repeat shots. However, with the goal being to show how much better the ball reads the lane after going through the detox, I will not accept that the bowler does not, at least subjectively adjust his release in order to facilitate meeting the goal.

He is not throbot. He is human. Howevr, if you wish  to believe that this is an objective way to assess the before and after affect of using the detox, drink the kool-aid man, drink it till you are full.

Not impressed with the difference in before and after shots? I naturally assume you're joking. The difference is clear, and as expected.
However, at $1,795.... Not geared to the personal market.
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?

spmcgivern

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Re: Jayhawk Detox, check it out!
« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2014, 01:53:41 PM »
For those interested, here is an excerpt from a post I made on bowlingchat last March.  This was in response to the pros and cons of using a Revivor versus the hot water bath method of oil extraction.  I don't design coverstocks, but this is how I see the science.
Quote
I have put more thought into this than I should. Here are some of the thoughts of each system and their pros/cons that I came up with. Please comment freely.

Revivor Oven:
- Use of controlled heat to raise the temperature of the converstock
- Removes oil by way of heating the coverstock causing "expansion," pushing oil to the surface
- Pressure differential between the compressed coverstock and the atmosphere is the driving force for oil removal.
- Atmosphere applies lower pressure causing highest pressure differential. This leads to oil moving faster in the coverstock to the surface
- Using hot air has a lower heat transfer rate causing long heating times to remove oil
- Oil must be removed from the coverstock separate from the process
- Must be used at pro shop unless an individual buys a Revivor (cost)

Use of Water (for this case, I will consider both a water bath method with stagnant water and a water "washing" method with heat control and constant water movement over the surface)
- Use of heated water to raise the temperature of the coverstock
- Removes oil by way of heating the coverstock causing "expansion," pushing oil to the surface
- Pressure differential between the compressed coverstock and the atmosphere is the driving force for oil removal
- Water applies higher pressure causing a lower pressue differential. This leads to oil moving slower in the coverstock to the surface
- Using hot water has a higher heat transfer rate causing shorter heating times to remove oil
- Oil is constantly being removed from the surface of the coverstock when using a wash technique
- Water baths require replenishment of hot water
- Water baths can be done at home

Initially, this list is a beginning point in making a decision to which method one would use. I feel both methods have benefits and both can be used equally safely.

The Revivor Oven does have the benefit of providing a higher pressure differential causing oil to be extracted faster once the coverstock has been heated. And since the pressure at the surface is lower, it can be assumed more oil may be able to be extracted when compared to the water method. However, using heated air as a heating medium will take longer, but that may be offset with the quicker oil removal once the set temperature is achieved. One area of possible improvement (if it hasn't been done already) is a way to remove oil from the surface of the bowling ball during the process. Not having a Revivor Oven myself (have used one), I am also not sure if there isn't a fan in the Revivor Oven allowing the heat transfer to improve.

A professionally designed water system (possible Powerhouse Wave) can be a viable option to the Revivor Oven. A water based system can heat the coverstock quicker perhaps decreasing the time required, but will give up some of that time benefit due to the lower pressure differential between the coverstock and the water. The pressure differential can be reduced if the amount of water staying in contact with the ball is reduced (something like a water spraying method or only keeping a small water film on the ball). Another negative to the water method is the amount of energy it will take to heat up the water source. If the process time can be reduced with the use of water, then the energy usage may be less.

ccrider

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Re: Jayhawk Detox, check it out!
« Reply #29 on: January 08, 2014, 03:39:40 PM »
Spmcgivern, the Rejuvenator Oven has a fan that circulates air and the oil is removed from the surface of the ball by pads that the ball sit on and rotate on during the process. Once the pads get oil soaked, you simply replace them.

Once the oil is brought to the surface for a given temperature, and wiped by the pad, the ball stops "sweating" and the process is complete. Whether using water or air, once all of the oil is removed from the ball, then that has to be the optimum obtainable condition.

Perhaps this water based system will be faster, but I see no other possible benefit, other than saving time.

Gizmo823

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Re: Jayhawk Detox, check it out!
« Reply #30 on: January 08, 2014, 03:48:17 PM »
Is everybody missing the key component here?  Ultrasonic.  It's not just another water bath idea.  It gets deeper than traditional methods.  If it was traditional water or air, how could it go faster unless there was another factor?  It goes faster and is more effective because it's ultrasonic. 

Spmcgivern, the Rejuvenator Oven has a fan that circulates air and the oil is removed from the surface of the ball by pads that the ball sit on and rotate on during the process. Once the pads get oil soaked, you simply replace them.

Once the oil is brought to the surface for a given temperature, and wiped by the pad, the ball stops "sweating" and the process is complete. Whether using water or air, once all of the oil is removed from the ball, then that has to be the optimum obtainable condition.

Perhaps this water based system will be faster, but I see no other possible benefit, other than saving time.
What would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane, wrapped helically around an axis?