BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: Iso on April 25, 2016, 02:04:00 PM
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Hello everyone. I am working on bringing a family entertainment center (FEC) with a 24 lane bowling alley.
What do you folks like or dislike about the bowling alleys & FECs that you have been too?
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Gotta be clean and preferably some concourse room.
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Is it a competitive center for bowlers?
How are the lanes?
Do you plan to support bowlers on all levels with fun and competitive leagues?
Will you have a pro shop with a knowledgable staff and products more than just a bunch of cute plastic balls?
Will you host tournaments?
Are you committed to the bowling world, or is this just a revenue stream in your business?
How many lanes do you have?
Do you have the proper equipment to maintain your lanes?
Are the lanes competitive by their construction?
Do you have coaches available for bowlers looking to improve?
Are you entrenched in the bowling community more than just supplying lanes?
How will you recognize bowlers and their accomplishments?
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These are a lot of things I personally look for in an alley. The more these things are supported the better.
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Owner team is predominately former military (Army & Navy). Cleanliness has been encoded into our DNA. :)
Brunswick seems to have a pretty good setup. Excellent information. Ambiguous on the technology aspect of it.
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You will get a bunch of varying information in this particular forum. Pretty much everyone here prefers locations catering to the competitive side as opposed to the entertainment side. Nothing wrong with gathering data, just realize you should listen to your specific demographic and not exclusively those here.
Proximity to restaurant/bars will dictate what how you provide those services. The same will apply to the bowling side. How many lanes are in your area (competition)? How many league bowlers in the area? Are you trying to acquire some of the existing league base or generate new? Or are you going for the FEC crowd only?
The competitive side will want large concourses, pro shop, ability to practice, the center competing for tournament hosting and adequate staffing to prevent the inevitable lack of assistance when needed. Entertainment will want good pizza, good bar, good music and fun atmosphere. Everyone wants cleanliness, especially bathrooms along with a courteous and knowledgeable staff for their type of bowling.
As long as you are willing to make necessary changes as they arise and not get stuck in a set way to do things, you should be okay. Personally, I don't know how you can make money in today's market. Cost of building a center would require more years to break even than what most banks are willing to deal with. But if you have the proper backing.... good luck. Love to see new centers challenging the ones who are stuck in their ways.
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What is your target clientele?
League bowlers, tournament bowlers and casual bowlers have totally different wants and needs.
Clean facility, fair pricing, decent food and friendly staff will always be some highlights for everybody.
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Wow lots of questions and great responses. Please feel free to poke flaws and ask questions. I am very much interested to hear your opinions. I sincerely appreciate your time.
What is your target clientele
Basic idea is a Family Entertainment Center. This encompasses bowling, arcade, food/bar service, and other interactive entertainment.
Bowling is a large part of this business. It is also the most frequently requested activity in the local area. While an FEC has multiple facets bowling is a fundamental pillar to our success.
Is it a competitive center for bowlers?
Yes. We anticipate having leagues. Part of the reason I am querying here to gain insight from competitive bowlers. We want competitive bowlers to come practice, to compete, and to have fun. I enjoy an occasional pickup game but nothing on the level that you folks bowl.
How are the lanes?
24 lanes, all new construction. Most likely built with Brunswick Pro-Anvilane surfaces.
Do you plan to support bowlers on all levels with fun and competitive leagues?
Most definitely. We will have open bowl, pick-up/adhoc organized games, organized amateur leagues & events. From toddlers to seniors everyone is welcome to play.
Will you have a pro shop with a knowledgeable staff and products more than just a bunch of cute plastic balls?
Yes, there will still be cute plastic balls maybe even with rainbows and unicorns just for fun.
Yes, we will have an actual pro shop geared to helping bowlers improve their game as well as making the latest in bowling equipment available.
Will you host tournaments?
Yes, of course.
Are you committed to the bowling world, or is this just a revenue stream in your business?
First, we are a business people. Revenue drives business. It is the life blood of the business. No one goes into business to lose money.
While revenue is important, our guests are the primary reason we exist. Our business is based on making the best experience for families and bowlers that we can.
Whether that is a family of 10 visiting us for a family night of fun and games or a formal USBC/PBA sanctioned tournament - we will strive to render the best possible experience.
Bowling is fun and I do enjoy a game despite having a nearly perfect average at placing the balls into the gutters. Only nearly perfect because occasionally I do get lucky and nick a pin or two. The area we are targeting has no bowling centers locally.
The commitment to the bowling world comes from this aspect. If people enjoy the experience they will want to experience it more. They will want to become better and eventually compete. This is what grows the sport. It was a lesson I learned from the competitive BBQ circuit.
How many lanes do you have?
24 lanes initially.
Do you have the proper equipment to maintain your lanes?
Yes we will. Plus we will have the proper training from the manufacturer and operators will all be qualified prior to operating the equipment. We will be incorporating programs we used during our military service (Navy PQS) to qualify employees so we know that maintenance (Navy PMS) is performed correctly on time.
Are the lanes competitive by their construction?
Our current design is Brunswick bowling lanes with Brunswick Pro-Anvilane surfaces and Brunswick equipment for the oiling.
Do you have coaches available for bowlers looking to improve?
Our intention to to have coaches available. There is additional potential for the local schools to host bowling teams as well. In this area "select" teams are also very popular across all the sports.
Are you entrenched in the bowling community more than just supplying lanes?
Not yet.
How will you recognize bowlers and their accomplishments?
Off hand = Wall of fame, social media.
How would you like to be recognized for your accomplishments?
Q) What is your opinion on Brunswick lanes and equipment?
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My experience with Brunswick lanes and equipment is great when that equipment is maintained. In my opinion and I believe many, that is a very big key to a successful bowling center. Maintain your equipment and provide a clean fun place for your open play bowlers, and a clean, and well maintained center for your league bowlers.
Price things fairly and people should return.
As a very competitive league bowler, I look for clean and well maintained lanes and approaches. No one wants a leg injury from sticky approaches. Keep the shot fair on both sides and no matter what you do, someone will have a complaint. Lanes are too slick, lanes are too dry. Not cold enough, too cold etc.
Good luck. I hope you are successful.
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Do you believe in air conditioning? You wouldn't believe how many centers don't take in account that the more people that are in the building, the warmer it is going to be.
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Do you believe in air conditioning? You wouldn't believe how many centers don't take in account that the more people that are in the building, the warmer it is going to be.
Best point on this list. And not just for the temperature, but the humidity. When the season changes from winter to spring, the centers just refuse to turn on the AC.
I understand that electricity is probably a centers biggest non-fixed cost but it makes bowling miserable when everything in the center is sticky from the humidity.
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One suggestion - if possible, install wood approaches instead of synthetic. Synthetic approaches vary in slickness/stickiness substantially with the weather, wood give a more consistent slide. -- JohnP
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if possible, install wood approaches instead of synthetic. Synthetic approaches vary in slickness/stickiness substantially with the weather, wood give a more consistent slide. -- JohnP
Thank you John. I will add this to our open issues list to take up with Brunswick.
Yes HVAC is very much required in our area. Even more so with the shifts in climate we have been experiencing.
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Lots of great pointers. How a center runs its restroom facilities says a lot about management. I bowl in a couple of houses that recently refurbished their restrooms which are clean and well lit---a reflection of management mindset.
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Lots of great pointers. How a center runs its restroom facilities says a lot about management. I bowl in a couple of houses that recently refurbished their restrooms which are clean and well lit---a reflection of management mindset.
+1
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Lots of great pointers. How a center runs its restroom facilities says a lot about management. I bowl in a couple of houses that recently refurbished their restrooms which are clean and well lit---a reflection of management mindset.
+1
Haha +1000 I thought that was just me but for me its any business.
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When comes to number 2...... Toto....... there's no place like home. there's no place like home.......
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Regarding bathrooms - make sure that there is an exhaust fan system in place. Our center does not have any and if you are bowling on the lanes near the restrooms, you will know it by the smell. (For some reason they like to keep the mens room door propped open.) That's another reason why some do not like bowling on lanes 1-4.
Oh, and have water fountains or beverage vending machines available. Don't force your customers to have to go to the snack bar for water or soft drinks. We had both until the snack bar complained and they removed them. I bowl on a military installation, so MWR rules.
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if you are intending to have leagues and tournaments; space for the all the bags that the bowlers bring in.
If you are doing even a semi-serious league or tournament, space for "parking" the bags is almost always much smaller than the amount of bags that are brought in.
a decent pro-shop is always good. even if it is just for consumables like bowlers tape or bowling ball maintenance products.
the counter or "command center" for the bowling center should be as central as possible. it is pretty annoying if bowlers on lane 23 have to walk down to lane 5 to get attention for a stuck ball or dead wood.
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I think making sure the air conditioning is working properly is most important to me. The other thing that I have been trying to get my center to install is the rack that fits under the return for bowlers spare balls. During league play half the seats are taken up with balls.
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I believe that adequate Space for bags/equipment is crucial. In my Thursday night league you have to be careful where you step because you might step on someone's 3 ball tote. The majority of the bowling centers that currently offer league bowling were built during the 50's & 60's with a few in the 70's & 80's--back when the game was vastly different. Bowlers back then had only one ball --- they maybe had two if they bought one of the new plastic balls to go along with their rubber ball. Those centers were built without foreknowledge of how the game might evolve as it has done since the reactive era where people have 3 ball totes, 4 & 6 ball rollers & everything in between. Better room/space to accommodate the modern game would be a great improvement.
Brad
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Lots of great pointers. How a center runs its restroom facilities says a lot about management. I bowl in a couple of houses that recently refurbished their restrooms which are clean and well lit---a reflection of management mindset.
I think the front bathrooms in the center I bowl at haven't been cleaned since the placed opened in 1976.
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Do you believe in air conditioning? You wouldn't believe how many centers don't take in account that the more people that are in the building, the warmer it is going to be.
Best point on this list. And not just for the temperature, but the humidity. When the season changes from winter to spring, the centers just refuse to turn on the AC.
I understand that electricity is probably a centers biggest non-fixed cost but it makes bowling miserable when everything in the center is sticky from the humidity.
This is why I don't bowl in the summer anymore, and I used to bowl in two leagues over the summer. The first league I came back on after a five-year hiatus was a summer league and the center decided to put the league on the pairs that the AC wasn't working all that well. One week it was 90+ degrees inside the building at the one end.
Needless to say, I did not return the following summer.
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Pretty simple for Me (4 items).
#1. Nice approaches. This should be a top priority. You need to prevent baby powder and rosin dumping on the approaches. In my years of bowling, I have rate this as most important, nothing worse than sliding on lane 36 and sticking on lane 35, or sliding good on your strike ball and sticking on trying to pick up a spare (just standing on a different place on the approach)
#2. Clean and Comfortable Establishment: Area clean, restrooms nice, and temperature is comfortable.
#3. Good lanes, pinsetters, and ball returns: Machines down the lane must work. Understand an issue can happen, but it should not be a normal occurrence.
#4. If you serve food: Make sure food is good quality. Not looking top notch items, but don't buy the cheap stuff, to try save some money.
As for everything else "Lane Conditions, Leagues, Pricing, Open Bowling, Pro Shop", you have to figure that one based on your area. You must customize your business to those that will come through your door and pay.
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Likes:
The home turf alley has lots of pretty girls :P
Most of the staff there are/is nice people.
They oil the lanes we are going to use right before matches and practice. And clean them at the same time.
Comfy couches. The screens show the scores in real time, like if you get 3 strikes in a row, it'll show the current score on the last strike, instead of it not showing anything under the X.
When the machines keep our ball down there, the machine stops after awhile, so that our balls don't get too bad marks on them.
The ball return isn't in the way.
Just have to ask, and we'll get water in any cup size. The staff even comes with 2 jugs if we ask for it.
At the other alley we play the most at after the home turf one:
The staff is very nice. There's always 1 or 2 jugs of water on the counter, and often cups besides them.
Got carpet on the floor, to whipe potential shit under shoes off on.
That's it, damn :P
One alley we very rarely travel to, because it's far away:
Nice people bowling there :P
Dislikes:
Home turf first again:
Shit machines, often stops or keeps the balls. Drops pins quite a bit.
Some of the staff are idiots, mostly just a few of the girls. One girl complained because she thought a happy senior was whistling at her, while he was actually just a happy guy who liked to whistle :P
No carpets on the floor to whipe potential shit under our shoes off on.
Only one rack to hang coats on.
When the staff sell a lane right next to us. I understand why of course, but sometimes assholes come there who get in the way. Steps into the other lane. One time 2 stupid girls came and started to take selfies while standing in our lane, they didn't get to take one selfie though :P
OTher alley:
SHIT machines from 1998. A few parts have probably been changed, but still shit.
The machines often keep the balls down there, and the machines do not stop here after awhile, so balls will grind against each other until, the staff goes behind there and gets them back up.
Drops pins.
They don't oil the lanes before matches, and most of the time the oil will have dried up pretty much when the matches start.
In vacations, they don't clean the lanes, just put oil over old oil. Then the lanes are very dirty which you'll see on the balls.
Not enough pretty girls :P
Ball return is in the way.
Last alley: Shit machines, shit screens.
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If you have pretty girls, keep them working in the bar. Helps keep bowlers focused on the game and increases bar revenue from guys visiting the bar.
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As with everybody a clean centre is optimal, the bathrooms don't have to be amazing in terms of finishings but cleanliness is essential. Most setups from brunswick in terms of lanes and machines will suit the needs of most bowlers. Seating for five man teams would be great, where i bow currently is an old set up with on lane seating for only six the rest sit at the raised seating behind the lanes.
One of the biggest things for me is having someone at the counter who can answer calls from the lanes, while I agree that a central control desk is great it's even better when you don't have to walk up to the counter.
Quick service at the food counter with decent quality food is great, plenty of cold beer is even better.
A pro shop is good if the staff is knowledgeable, a vending machine for basics like rosin, tape is nice to have.
A staff that understands not putting people beside competitive bowlers during practice is great too. I understand when it's busy but when there's 24 lanes and only 4 being used putting a group of 5 year olds beside me is a bit annoying, not so much for lane courtesy but for the fact that a young kid walking in front of me could get seriously injured so it's uncomfortable to play beside them.
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Iso,
Having never run a center myself, but always having it as a dream of mine, I have spent much time listening to the bowling community, trying to figure out what would make a bowling establishment successful.
First off, I really don't think you can go in as "just" a bowling center anymore. You seem to have the right direction in mind by opening up as a F. E.C.. Just keep in mind that by doing so, you not only increase the number of possible patrons, but you also increase the need for you to have a wider variety of activities available to keep them all entertained. Once upon a time, bowling was a big enough draw by it self, but those days are gone, and the public's desire to be entertained has grown beyond what bowling can supply on it's own.
That doesn't mean that you need to open a giant place with a multitude of things, but access to a well thought out secondary activity area can draw in people who otherwise might not come in just for bowling. A small area with arcade style atmosphere and games might be something to look at as a side attraction. The center here even added an area for a laser tag venue, and I have seen everything from a skating rink to a putt-putt golf in bowling centers.
Second, it seems that GOOD food is a big advantage. Many times, I have been in centers that just didn't have anything decent to eat, or their service was ridiculously bad, and watch groups of hungry people "hurrying up" to leave and go get something to eat. If you have GOOD food, with GOOD service, many times those people might not only stay there longer, but they would probably be likely to eat there, which drives up revenue. If they KNOW they can come and enjoy themselves without worrying what to do about getting done and going to find something to eat elsewhere, that always seemed like something that could influence people to stay longer, spend more, and come back more often.
Has anyone mentioned CLEANLINESS? Yes, they have, but you cannot underestimate the importance. Many times, I have been in centers and overheard comments to the effect of those patrons not ever coming back to this place because of the "nasty" bathrooms. BUT, it isn't just the bathrooms, it should be the entire center that is kept clean. Believe me, people notice when it isn't, and it makes a difference.
DON'T SKIMP on the maintenance either. Nobody wants to go back to a place where they had a bad experience. If the lanes are not well maintained, if the machines don't run right, if the balls continually get stuck, or come back "damaged", you will not be helping yourself build a return clientele, but you WILL be giving them a reason to go "somewhere else" next time the recreation issue comes up.
And finally, don't forget about or overlook the need/want for some basic services that go along with this type business. While the casual recreational bowler might not be interested in a pro-shop, no "serious" center would be complete without one. Now, whether you owned and ran the shop, or simply leased out a space to an outside shop business, you need to make sure that it is staffed by good, reputable people, and that it will be open at times when business volume is high, or whenever you are having leagues and tournaments. A good shop might not draw in a ton of business, but the lack of one can cause people to go elsewhere to get those services, then STAY elsewhere for that convenience. You don't want to give people an excuse to NOT come to your place.
If you do decide to go through with your plans, I wish you the best of luck. Do your homework and make sure the demographics support the idea and the location, because getting those right to begin with may be a big part of your success. Make sure you find an area that is looking for a product like the one you are going to offer first.
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Everyone seems to be focused on the facility, the amenities.
I will add, a friendly, approachable, responsive staff is a must. especially the Manager/face of staff to customers.
You can have the best facility ever, but a terrible staff will still drive customers away.
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And to add to the staff side of things, make sure you have proper training for your bowling staff. Recently, our center had hired a new lane attendant and this person was set to work during the men's league. A call was made to get deadwood on a lane and this lane attendant walked down the middle of the lane, all the way to the masking unit, to get the deadwood.
Obviously this is not what should be done. But I am willing to bet this person was never taught the proper way to get deadwood. Needless to say, the men's league was brutal in the treatment of this lane attendant. I felt bad because it was obvious the training wasn't there. Plus, I used to manage this place and that would have never happened with my staff.
Just remember, with an FEC, you will have to have extensive cross-training between your services. You can't just throw them out there and expect good customer service.
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Both paper towels and an air dryer in the bathrooms would be nice. Remove the majority of the water with the towels then get hands completely dry before resuming bowling. Also when the paper towel dispenser runs empty you can still dry hands with the air dryer. -- JohnP
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Many good points listed;
A competent pro shop
Clean restrooms
Maintained HVAC system
But for me,nothing bugs me more than going to leagues/tournaments and having to go through a maze to get in and out of the center. Even going to check brackets,food,beer,etc. is sometimes a run through an obstacle course. Give the center plenty of room between the settee area and the main isle where the services are located. Belive me,I have seen tempers flare from someone's 6 ball roller colliding with someone else's bagger/roller, or worse yet,someone falling over a bag not outta the way. People in general are not too observent towards other people.
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I too love bowling centers with tons of concourse area. I have seen centers so large they have golf carts delivering drinks.
But in today's environment, an FEC will try to maximize returns per square foot of space. Unfortunately that may mean small concourses to accommodate something else that makes more money than empty space.
Again, I love huge concourses, but for events that may come around a couple times a year, I just don't know if it makes as much sense.
On a side note, if I had all the space in the world for a bowling center, I would move the ball returns off the lanes. Nothing but open space for every lane's approach.