Have a question about our recently completed city tournament.  My doubles partner and I were in first until this last weekend before we were edged by another pair by 4 pins.  We were bowling scratch and somehow this other team got 10 pins of handicap for the set.  Last year one of them averaged 217, and the other averaged 219 (handicap based 90% of 220, so it was calculated correctly).  However, the year prior, the guy at 217 averaged 233, I saw him shoot 877 and a couple sets over 840.  Not sure how he had that rough of a year last year, but that's beside the point. 

This year he's averaging 225 . . in the same league that reports regularly to the USBC (that he had 233 in two years ago and 217 a year ago).  He also bowls in 3 other leagues in another town that haven't reported any averages to USBC for 2014/2015 yet, one of which he's averaging 227 in.  We have a 10 pin rule in our city tournament.  I realize it would have had to be 227 or higher at the time of the cutoff for averages, as the 227 is a current average.  However, when I inquired with our association heads about checking into it, the answer I got initially is that since it's a local tournament, they have never considered outside averages before. 

While that sounds logical or reasonable, aren't sanctioned tournaments required to take the highest sanctioned average period?  I'm not sure I want to make a huge issue out of this, the guys that beat us are friends, and I know for a certain fact they weren't trying to cheat, might have just been an oversight, maybe he wasn't 227 at the time, or maybe they also assumed it was just based on city only averages.  Everybody has rough years, but this guy shouldn't ever get handicap anywhere . . and if it was the difference between 4th and 5th I wouldn't care or say a word, but it's for 1st.  I also know that if the roles were reversed, and they got edged by us and they found out we were getting handicap, they'd be doing the same thing, because we shouldn't be getting handicap together either. 

Again, don't want to cause an issue, and definitely don't want it to get them disqualified, just re-rated.  If they had just blown us out of the water, this wouldn't be an issue haha . .

Shouldn't somebody that has been a local association rep know the rules?

I'm not heavily involved and haven't been able to bowl the city tournament or help with it very often, I work 70 hours a week . .

Shouldn't somebody that has been a local association rep know the rules?

We had this same sort of issue come up a few years ago.

One of our bowlers was averaging more than 10 pins in a league in another state.  He drove down every month for travel league so he had a local average for the city tournament.  Someone asked about his out of state average?  Our association director said, it is impossible for him to contact the league secretary of every bowler who cashes (which he would have to do.  can't only enforce it for the winners) and verify they do not have a 10 pin violation, therefore if the league does not post "mid-year" averages on bowl.com, there will be no further verification.  Well turns out the league in the other state did post mid-year as it was a split season and we got disqualified.

I guess I was unclear, this was what I understood, and I was being told otherwise, so that's where the confusion stemmed from.  I understood that if it was a sanctioned tournament, that these rules would apply.  I do know the 10 pin rule is in place, and had always understood that it was your highest sanctioned average from the previous year unless your current average is 10 or more pins higher, then you use that one, that's what I was getting at.  I'm now being told different and I'm confused. 

The rules are pretty clear unless the entry states otherwise.  It is the responsibility of the bowler to report his average correctly and have some integrity in doing so if current averages are supposed to be used for the tournament.

Rule 319 – Averages
319a. Conditions that Apply
The following conditions apply to averages in handicap or classified tournaments, unless the tournament rules state otherwise, except that only USBC league averages shall be accepted. (See Rule 319c for average adjustment.)
1. The bowler is required to submit the previous season’s highest average of
a) A single USBC league average based on a minimum of 21 games; or
b) A composite average of all USBC leagues, including leagues with less than 21 games bowled.
2. When the previous season’s average is used, and at the time of bowling an entrant has a current average for 21 or more games that is 10 pins or more higher than the prior season’s average, the current average must be used.
3. Bowlers are responsible for verifying his/her own average, whether submitted by the bowler,
the team captain or others. If the submitted average is lower than required and results in a lower classification or more handicap, the bowler’s score is disqualified. If the submitted average is higher than required, prize winnings will be based on the submitted average. In the case of a team of two or more bowlers, the averages will be combined to determine if the correct total is higher or lower than the submitted total.
4. Average corrections can be made up to the end of the bowler’s first game of a series. Or, if an extension of time has been granted in writing by tournament management before the end of the first game of a series, the correction can be made within 48 hours after the end of the series.
5. When an association publishes a yearbook, a tournament using previous season averages to determine handicap or classification, shall use the yearbook to verify averages, if furnished, and not require the association to verify averages from that association.

I guess I was unclear, this was what I understood, and I was being told otherwise, so that's where the confusion stemmed from.  I understood that if it was a sanctioned tournament, that these rules would apply.  I do know the 10 pin rule is in place, and had always understood that it was your highest sanctioned average from the previous year unless your current average is 10 or more pins higher, then you use that one, that's what I was getting at.  I'm now being told different and I'm confused. 

Quote from: itsallaboutme on February 24, 2015, 01:31:49 PM

The rules are pretty clear unless the entry states otherwise.  It is the responsibility of the bowler to report his average correctly and have some integrity in doing so if current averages are supposed to be used for the tournament.

Rule 319 – Averages
319a. Conditions that Apply
The following conditions apply to averages in handicap or classified tournaments, unless the tournament rules state otherwise, except that only USBC league averages shall be accepted. (See Rule 319c for average adjustment.)
1. The bowler is required to submit the previous season’s highest average of
a) A single USBC league average based on a minimum of 21 games; or
b) A composite average of all USBC leagues, including leagues with less than 21 games bowled.
2. When the previous season’s average is used, and at the time of bowling an entrant has a current average for 21 or more games that is 10 pins or more higher than the prior season’s average, the current average must be used.
3. Bowlers are responsible for verifying his/her own average, whether submitted by the bowler,
the team captain or others. If the submitted average is lower than required and results in a lower classification or more handicap, the bowler’s score is disqualified. If the submitted average is higher than required, prize winnings will be based on the submitted average. In the case of a team of two or more bowlers, the averages will be combined to determine if the correct total is higher or lower than the submitted total.
4. Average corrections can be made up to the end of the bowler’s first game of a series. Or, if an extension of time has been granted in writing by tournament management before the end of the first game of a series, the correction can be made within 48 hours after the end of the series.
5. When an association publishes a yearbook, a tournament using previous season averages to determine handicap or classification, shall use the yearbook to verify averages, if furnished, and not require the association to verify averages from that association.

The crux of the matter is not really this rule.

It's what entering average the tournament rules state is to be used.

Whether it's just the local association average or national average (meaning the other town, assuming it's in another association) used.

Since they said they don't use outside averages, all we can assume is that the house in the other town is in a another association. So they must not use national averages.

So to find out you have to get a copy of the tournament rules and read them.

Given that you hadn't bowled in the city tournament in 7-8 years, the rules may be very different from back then.

When entering tournament even a familar one, it's always wise to read the rules first. Just in case.

Contact your local association office for clarity on the rules. The reason for a 30 day window on official results/pay outs is due to situations like this. Your friends that beat you out will understand, I would definitely pursue with questions.