Post by: TamerBowling on November 28, 2010, 05:58:19 AM
Well I guess everybody is always looking for better carry. My experience this year has led me to try to address this topic in an article about entry angle.
It may generate some conflict, but these are my observations and they vary a bit from the traditional data out there.
I don't think 6 degrees of entry angle is ideal, especially on a house shot. I also don't think 17.5 is the correct entry board. I've been using Digitrax on myself and other bowlers for coaching and ball reviews so I have my own data to corroborate.
Please read the following article and let me know what you think:
http://tamerbowling.com/index.php/want-better-scores-on-ths-check-your-entry-angle/
I am happy to debate the topic
I'd like to get the most accurate information out there to fellow bowlers and hey, I'm always open to learning more myself. I'm sure there are many more experienced coaches out there and I'd be happy to hear your thoughts and observations.Thanks.
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USBC Certified Level I
Post by: Balldoctor on November 28, 2010, 02:45:39 PM
BTW, great work.
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Remember, ALL BOWLING IS LOCAL!
Post by: BrunsWolf on November 28, 2010, 08:01:22 PM
However, with that being said, I do believe that you are onto something. I have noticed that, within the past year or so, that my carry has been better at more moderate angles. As you slightly mentioned, I often prefer my Urethane Avalanche over the rest of my equipment on THS because of the control of the midlane, and the arcing motion that produces less entry angle. I have noticed that I seem to carry better with lighter hits and only a moderate amount of entry angle (probably 4.5-5 degrees).
What I believe we are noticing is the effect of the new super-cores that are being used by virtually all bowlers today. These super-cores retain more energy through the pin deck, thus maintaining the entry angle throughout the pin deck. The data for the 17.5 board and the 6 degrees I have seen since I went to multiple Wichita Shocker Camps around 2002. I feel like this is slightly outdated and might not have used dynamic cores and a full ball reaction (it might have used a ball rolling down a ramp at that angle and offset distance). By rolling a ball down a ramp that hasn't been stabilized on its axis after being thrown would cause more deflection through the pins. So that initial 6 degrees could become 4 degrees or less at the back of the pin deck, whereas todays super-cores might have an initial entry angle at 4.5 degrees and leave the pin deck at 4 degrees. So perhaps its not just the entry angle that matters, perhaps it is the angle throughout the entire pin deck.
Just some thoughts....
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Brunswick Advisory Staff
Jared Wolf
Jonesboro, AR
www.bowlingchat.net
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
Post by: TamerBowling on November 29, 2010, 08:42:15 AM
I wanted to keep this focused on THS because I can't make the same statements with confidence on sport shots, at least not yet.
I think you are supplementing the concept with the ball dynamics. There is always talk about how "continuous" balls are through the deck. That's great, only when taken in context with entry angle and board angle. I tell you, I watch my Columbia Freeze and it is very continuous through the deck off of my hand. However, if you decrease the entry angle, the continuity decreases. This may be in contrast to say a Roto Grip Mutant Cell Pearl, where decreasing the entry angle, the core still drives hard and allows the ball to still be continuous.
As far as the urethane discussion, I agree with you. Folks who have above average hand will benefit from urethane, especially if they like to use the outside breakzones. This is primarily due to the lower entry angle generated by urethane coverstock in my opinion. However, if you move further in than say 10 at the breakpoint, the entry angle on a urethane will decrease significantly due to the oil to possibly below 4, which will decrease carry significantly.
quote:
Wow this is a very interesting observation, not to mention one that goes against alot of research.
However, with that being said, I do believe that you are onto something. I have noticed that, within the past year or so, that my carry has been better at more moderate angles. As you slightly mentioned, I often prefer my Urethane Avalanche over the rest of my equipment on THS because of the control of the midlane, and the arcing motion that produces less entry angle. I have noticed that I seem to carry better with lighter hits and only a moderate amount of entry angle (probably 4.5-5 degrees).
What I believe we are noticing is the effect of the new super-cores that are being used by virtually all bowlers today. These super-cores retain more energy through the pin deck, thus maintaining the entry angle throughout the pin deck. The data for the 17.5 board and the 6 degrees I have seen since I went to multiple Wichita Shocker Camps around 2002. I feel like this is slightly outdated and might not have used dynamic cores and a full ball reaction (it might have used a ball rolling down a ramp at that angle and offset distance). By rolling a ball down a ramp that hasn't been stabilized on its axis after being thrown would cause more deflection through the pins. So that initial 6 degrees could become 4 degrees or less at the back of the pin deck, whereas todays super-cores might have an initial entry angle at 4.5 degrees and leave the pin deck at 4 degrees. So perhaps its not just the entry angle that matters, perhaps it is the angle throughout the entire pin deck.
Just some thoughts....
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Brunswick Advisory Staff
Jared Wolf
Jonesboro, AR
www.bowlingchat.net
The opinions expressed are solely those of the writer and not of Brunswick Corporation.
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www.TamerBowling.com
Everything Bowling, coaching tips, ball reviews, General bowling discussions
USBC Certified Level I
Post by: tdub36tjt on November 29, 2010, 08:50:04 AM
Post by: TamerBowling on November 29, 2010, 09:03:13 AM
I have a day job like most others so bowling is a passion. Unfortunately, it will just take some time to get that level of detail out.
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www.TamerBowling.com
Everything Bowling, coaching tips, ball reviews, General bowling discussions
USBC Certified Level I
Post by: fishbowler on November 29, 2010, 09:16:57 AM
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"I'd quit this game if I thought anyone would give a damn!"
"If Fishing is a Sport, well then you're looking at an athlete!"
Post by: TamerBowling on November 29, 2010, 09:19:18 AM
You have to know "how" you are leaving 10 pins and then maybe something could be recommended. In other words, it matters if you are ringing them, leaving flat 10s, etc. If you are ringing them, I think the article actually provides pretty specific recommendations...
quote:
I will buy you a case of your favorite beer if you can help me carry the 10 pin better.
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"I'd quit this game if I thought anyone would give a damn!"
"If Fishing is a Sport, well then you're looking at an athlete!"
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www.TamerBowling.com
Everything Bowling, coaching tips, ball reviews, General bowling discussions
USBC Certified Level I
Post by: stopncrank on November 30, 2010, 11:16:41 AM
More than anything else it has drastically improved the open frames i used to get with the higher flaring stuff. Staying clean has obvious effects on average. Alot of centers in my area are getting away from shots that reward misses to the outside of the lane. What i am finding in my area is how to use that hold by playing straighter in that portion of the lane, something i havent done in quite a while on THS.
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Still taking your lunch money one strike at a time, just without a Mission in my bag....
Post by: TamerBowling on November 30, 2010, 11:32:31 AM
I just think that part of the straighter philosophy is benefiting from the fact that it generates lower entry angles. Nobody talks about that and that's what I'm trying to expose.
I'm with you on weaker equipment. Right now, my "strong" ball for my house is the Columbia Burst. Next is a Midnight Vibe and then a Storm Natural. Last year I used the Storm Natural almost every night by game 3. It just seems I am generating even higher entry angles this year because of the "help" on the THS that usually benefits less handed bowlers. But this year, I have yet to use the Natural for a whole game because I've decided that moving into the heavier part of the lane at the breakpoint is more conducive to a consistent reaction and better carry by cutting the entry angle down. You can't move there with a urethane ball.
Worst case scenario, I fan one to the outside and it comes roaring back.
Probably guaranteed ringing corner pin though quote:
I have recently went in the direction of using weaker stuff on THS, and i am currently debating drilling up a Urethane ball as well. One thing I can say is my carry has increased in the last couple of weeks since going weaker, not it is a matter of tewaking the covers to match a couple different center that i bowl in.
More than anything else it has drastically improved the open frames i used to get with the higher flaring stuff. Staying clean has obvious effects on average. Alot of centers in my area are getting away from shots that reward misses to the outside of the lane. What i am finding in my area is how to use that hold by playing straighter in that portion of the lane, something i havent done in quite a while on THS.
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Still taking your lunch money one strike at a time, just without a Mission in my bag....
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www.TamerBowling.com
Everything Bowling, coaching tips, ball reviews, General bowling discussions
USBC Certified Level I
Post by: stopncrank on November 30, 2010, 11:38:43 AM
quote:
That's great. There are many factors to it all. If the houses you bowl on are making the shot slightly tougher, then I can see it. And straighter is greater many times.
I just think that part of the straighter philosophy is benefiting from the fact that it generates lower entry angles. Nobody talks about that and that's what I'm trying to expose.
I'm with you on weaker equipment. Right now, my "strong" ball for my house is the Columbia Burst. Next is a Midnight Vibe and then a Storm Natural. Last year I used the Storm Natural almost every night by game 3. It just seems I am generating even higher entry angles this year because of the "help" on the THS that usually benefits less handed bowlers. But this year, I have yet to use the Natural for a whole game because I've decided that moving into the heavier part of the lane at the breakpoint is more conducive to a consistent reaction and better carry by cutting the entry angle down. You can't move there with a urethane ball.
Worst case scenario, I fan one to the outside and it comes roaring back.quote:
I have recently went in the direction of using weaker stuff on THS, and i am currently debating drilling up a Urethane ball as well. One thing I can say is my carry has increased in the last couple of weeks since going weaker, not it is a matter of tewaking the covers to match a couple different center that i bowl in.
More than anything else it has drastically improved the open frames i used to get with the higher flaring stuff. Staying clean has obvious effects on average. Alot of centers in my area are getting away from shots that reward misses to the outside of the lane. What i am finding in my area is how to use that hold by playing straighter in that portion of the lane, something i havent done in quite a while on THS.
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Still taking your lunch money one strike at a time, just without a Mission in my bag....
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www.TamerBowling.com
Everything Bowling, coaching tips, ball reviews, General bowling discussions
USBC Certified Level I
To put in in perspective for me, here lately ive been carrying a 607a, Columbia Loud Noize and an original Eraser lol.
I totally agree with moving in as well, and that may very well work at my center its just that im more comfortable playing straighter, i feel like i can hit the pocket from a straighter angle better than crossing boards at one particular center. That center doesnt give bowlers much help in the way of backend, usually when you start deeper carrydown comes in to play there.
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Still taking your lunch money one strike at a time, just without a Mission in my bag....
Post by: TamerBowling on December 02, 2010, 08:14:24 PM
Any experts out there care to comment on the concept of entry angle?
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www.TamerBowling.com
Everything Bowling, coaching tips, ball reviews, General bowling discussions
USBC Certified Level I
Post by: TamerBowling on January 31, 2011, 05:37:44 AM
Wanted to bring this topic back up front to see if any others have any thoughts or comments.
Thanks.
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