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Author Topic: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices  (Read 12731 times)

Harmsey

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Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« on: January 14, 2010, 06:17:51 AM »
After many hours of thought and watching friends go out of business or finding new jobs due to lack of bowling equipment sales, has left me with one question to the bowling manufacturers. "Why won't you establish a minimum sale price for all current products on the market?The golf industry is much larger and has more companies in their sport than bowling and yet you can go to any local on course pro shop,local retailer, and pick any of the web sellers and the price of current products are within $5.00 of each retailer. Bowling has in place all that needs to be done to police this situation but the manufactures still think that once they sell a product to the distributors the price that needs to be charged is out of there hands, when its the manufactures job to protect their product and keep the industry stable. With the ridiculously low prices some e-tailers are selling products for forces many pro shop operators into being just a ball driller or to leave the business altogether. Bowling will continue to decline if the ship is not righted soon. This is just one of many reasons bowling is suffering and manufactures need to help this industry if they want bowling to start growing again.
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Steve Harms
Owner Bowler Choice Pro Shop
USBC Silver Coach
Track Regional Staff
Member PBA
www.bowlerschoiceproshop.com
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Harmsey

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #31 on: January 14, 2010, 05:17:39 PM »
Xx trip4 xX and jls guys I just wanted some feed back as to why there is no difinite answer to why the manufacturer won't support the pro shops cause without them there would only be e-tailers to drill the ball(poor service for the average joe)Pro shops help keep the bowling industry rolling and we should be better supported by the manufacturers.

So please settle down on the bickering
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Steve Harms
Owner Bowler Choice Pro Shop
USBC Silver Coach
Track Regional Staff
Member PBA
www.bowlerschoiceproshop.com
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Steve Harms

jls

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #32 on: January 14, 2010, 05:25:45 PM »
quote:
Xx trip4 xX and jls guys I just wanted some feed back as to why there is no difinite answer to why the manufacturer won't support the pro shops cause without them there would only be e-tailers to drill the ball(poor service for the average joe)Pro shops help keep the bowling industry rolling and we should be better supported by the manufacturers.

So please settle down on the bickering
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Steve Harms
Owner Bowler Choice Pro Shop
USBC Silver Coach
Track Regional Staff
Member PBA
www.bowlerschoiceproshop.com



Not bickering, it's called not taking crap from keyboard pounders...

Like I said,  let that loud mouth produce one site where he can buy a new current ball online drilled for under $150....

He can't,  yet he knocks pro shops for making a profit...

It's time we put keyboard pounders in their place...

They work, the demand a pay check for their time... Yet they think pro shops are 3rd class people who should work for free..

Well screw them.....

And mr Pba regional... him too....

Go in any league and it's real easy to see who most league bowlers can't stand... It's Mr pba wan a bee regional who stands at the foul line giving the 10 pin the finger... Ya real class acts...

And what really makes me laugh is when these geek losers say things like, "i will never"   get a life geeks...

keyboard pounders...
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jls
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jls

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #33 on: January 14, 2010, 05:40:42 PM »
quote:
Yup, I''m a big A-Hole that works with the local youth, coach kids on my own time and don''t charge them a penny.   Work with anyone on their physical and mental games without asking for a thing in return.

Mr JLS, you couldn''t keep up with me on the lanes, but bowling skill has nothing to do with who we are as a person, or how we live life.  I don''t desire to be a bowling super star, I don''t desire to be a PBA champion and I don''t desire to live a life in bowling.   I enjoy helping kids, people and talking about the sport that they love.  

JLS your a cancer..an evil and sinister cancer. Good luck my friend.




Then why do you attack a pro shop owner who defends all pro shops from dirty lies posted on this site....

Did I not challenge him to produce a site....

Yet because I did, you Mr PBA regional came on an attacked me, because I dared to challenge a liar....

You see some pro shops just take this crap and say nothing,  not me boy...

You think I care... Most of the people who buy online are looking for deals, not service... But if they bring their balls in, we will drill them...No problem.

Now each and everyday I drill balls for  customers who buy online... Heck most of the time they call me first before ordering and ask what ball or pin etc to get....

But they are not buying balls drilled online for under $150...

That was just plain bull crap... Trying to make us real pro shops look bad...

Well guess what boy... Ain''t going to happen...

Now if you don''t like it, ask me if I care...

I have the guts to defend pro shops, and will not run and hide from little geeks....

you getting all this boy....

For years keyboard pounders have been knocking us pro shops...for making a profit???? Yet these keyboard pounders expect a pay check...

they like you boy, make me sick.


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jls

Edited on 1/14/2010 6:45 PM
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BW

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #34 on: January 14, 2010, 06:01:31 PM »
Steve,

The simple answer to your question is that manufacturers can only mandate pricing to their customers: the distributors. They have no control over pro shop pricing, as much as we'd like. The distributor could mandate pricing to the pro shops, but enforcement would be difficult at best. And it would only work if all distributors were in agreement, which is near impossible.

It's sad, but the vast majority of consumers on this board look down on the pro shop making a profit. They want you open 70 hours per week for their convenience. They want you to keep $50k in inventory in stock. They want you to drop everything when they come in. But then they want to pay you a pittance for the time you spend with them.

This attitude has been on this board for years. The subject gets beaten to death every few months. It will probably never change.
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txbowler

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #35 on: January 14, 2010, 06:08:55 PM »
Wow this went downhill fast while I drove home from work.

Since some of this was addressed to me I'll respond.

If you have it in stock, I can agree that some sort of "stocking profit" should be built in to your cost structure.  But my last shop stocked nothing high end but display models.  Why, most times, we had to order it anyway because someone wants this pin length or that top weight.  So if you are ordering it, no, you don't get to make any more profit than the guy ordering it himself from internet.  Now if your expertise is used in deciding what to order, then you add a service fee.  This was posted and people didn't mind because they knew what they were paying for.  

It seems like what you want is profit built into the product to start with.  And if the market supports that.  No problem.  

Sort of like Lawyers.  First consultation is free, but they make up for the free stuff later on.  Just have to think of other ways to profit.  Other pro shops seems to have found a way??
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kidlost2000

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #36 on: January 14, 2010, 06:36:21 PM »
quote:
Knocking and belittling the internet customer doesn't help the business, inform the customer or shed any light on why the customer went that route.

The internet customer is FOUND MONEY, it's drill and go.  Why give them a hard time anymore.  

Alot of pro shops openly create friction with internet purchase customers, and this will do nothing to change the buyer's habits.  In fact this re-enforces the customers decision to buy on the internet as the correct one, since the pro shop guy has "issues"

Face it, e-tailers are here to stay.  It's getting bigger and bigger as technology advances in the world.  Sooner or later ever single sales industry will focus more on e-tail than any other sales opportunity.

The world of sales is changing, there is a new breed of consumers and sales people.  




Very true. Most shops are benefiting from etailers because the shop makes its profit more times then not on drilling and accessories not the ball.(like most businesses, money is made in labor and accessories not the main product)

So if the proshop buys four new Jigsaws for $145 and charges $215 drilled with inserts and slug and internet guy buys the ball for $145 and then pays about the same difference(215-145= $70) about $70 or more to get the ball drilled with all the trimmings from the same shop it is all the same.

The proshop makes the same profit with less overhead and the customer still feels like he gets a great deal.(maybe)

If pricing was that big of a difference because of internet stores then proshops could advertise balls at actual cost roughly BEFORE drilling and accessories are added. Then when it is all said and done consumer still pays $215-225 for the ball. That doesn't seem to be an issue at this point and probably never will be.

The only real savings is when consumers find bowling balls on closeout for a lot cheaper price on ebay or where ever. The consumer will save more on the ball but the proshop he goes to will still make the same profit off of the services. Most proshops unless they get some good deals on recent closeouts or whatever don't make much off the actual ball itself.

If I owned a proshop, I wouldn't mind people bringing in bowling balls from else where because I know I can charge them more for drilling then my usual customers who buy from me. It is easy profit, and you don't have to worry about any bowling ball warranty issues because they bought it else where. It is easy money. I see it on occasion at my local shop. The owner loves it. He charges around $65 a ball plus accessories on internet or other bowling balls bought else where.
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" men lie, women lie, numbers don't "
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Harmsey

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #37 on: January 14, 2010, 06:40:56 PM »
BW
quote:
The simple answer to your question is that manufacturers can only mandate pricing to their customers: the distributors. They have no control over pro shop pricing, as much as we'd like. The distributor could mandate pricing to the pro shops, but enforcement would be difficult at best. And it would only work if all distributors were in agreement, which is near impossible.

This is correct, however we now know its the lack of support from the manufacturer to control their customers the distributor from doing whatever they want. With every distributor I have to prove that I'm a legitimate business before they will sell to me at wholesale prices, why then can't the manufacturer force the e-tailer to prove that to every customer they sell to at wholesale prices prove that they are a business or if not they pay the mandated minimum retail price of the product. I still reiterate that its the manufacturers responsibility to protect thier product while keeping the playing field level for all retail. It's not impossible to enforce, that is why there are ball reps and distributor reps these guys are suppose to check on the retail shops to help and police their products.
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Steve Harms
Owner Bowler Choice Pro Shop
USBC Silver Coach
Track Regional Staff
Member PBA
www.bowlerschoiceproshop.com
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kidlost2000

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #38 on: January 14, 2010, 06:53:43 PM »
quote:
The thing is there are pro shops still out there that want to buy that ball at $145, and then sell it to the customer for $165 and then the drilling/inserts and have the final price be $235

The consumer is smart enough to figure out that an internet ball drilled at the shop is $70, and figures out that the ball itself has now a $20 added mark up from it''''s value.

The consumer does not understand why there is a mark up on the item.  

The pro shop would be better off charging the whole sale, or average internet price for the ball and then making their money on the drill services (ala cart).


It''''s the perception of mark up that drives the consumer to the internet.  


Edited on 1/14/2010 7:47 PM


Some mark up on the ball alone shouldn''t bother the consumer. IMHO it is very little these days compared to maybe what it once was. The markup is small if any, and the proshop will get that additional little bit back on the fees they charge to drill ball X from other seller.

There is always some mark up in everything you buy at the store.

Went with my wife to office depot for some work supplies and told her the prices were too high for what all she bought. Later that night I dragged her to walmart where she got all of the same items and saved almost half. Still this will not stop people in droves from going to Office Depot.

Walmart still made a profit as well. There is always markup. Even when you buy online.
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" men lie, women lie, numbers don''t "

Edited on 1/14/2010 7:54 PM
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kidlost2000

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #39 on: January 14, 2010, 06:55:45 PM »
quote:
quote:
The thing is there are pro shops still out there that want to buy that ball at $145, and then sell it to the customer for $165 and then the drilling/inserts and have the final price be $235

The consumer is smart enough to figure out that an internet ball drilled at the shop is $70, and figures out that the ball itself has now a $20 added mark up from it''s value.

The consumer does not understand why there is a mark up on the item.  

The pro shop would be better off charging the whole sale, or average internet price for the ball and then making their money on the drill services (ala cart).


It''s the perception of mark up that drives the consumer to the internet.  


Edited on 1/14/2010 7:47 PM


To be honest I have considered doing this.  Heck my distributor now even gives us a price list of our cost, then undrilled retail and we are supposed to tack our charges on top of that.  There are some shops around here that follow that but when I put my prices up everything is included.  Grips, slug, drilling etc.  I've never had a problem when I tell people that and I make sure it's always understood.  I do agree it's the perception of things but if it was something that I run into everyday then it would be more of an issue.  I don't have a problem with balls being brought in because its pure profit.  I don't give the "evil eye" and such but I do ask why it wasn't bought here.  It's always because of the price but by the time they're done it's always the same as my price.
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Dave Roberts Jr
Track staff
Turbo regional staff
Bowl-T's Pro Shop, Imperial. MO
www.imperialbowl.com




+1 it is easy money
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" men lie, women lie, numbers don't "
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Harmsey

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #40 on: January 14, 2010, 07:30:44 PM »
Well the direction has gone the wrong Xx trip4 xX I'm not blaming the consumer. the consumer is looking for cheaper or lesser priced product, the manufacturer is causing this. I can't blame anyone for trying to get a better price. I shop around the distributors for the best prices and I'm sure they know that, but if the manufacturer mandates the price, the distributors will still have there variances but at least the retail price would be more consistent than this large fluctuation that resides in the bowling industry. My shop runs prices ala cart and it has helped show a more percieved value but when an e-tailer sells a ball at the same price that I can it from my distributor there is a problem Houston. I feel there needs to be more balance here.
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Steve Harms
Owner Bowler Choice Pro Shop
USBC Silver Coach
Track Regional Staff
Member PBA
www.bowlerschoiceproshop.com
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Fishbowl815

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #41 on: January 14, 2010, 07:59:45 PM »
quote:
quote:
Maybe if the pro shops got in line and started to sell there stuff for what the e-tailers are than people would buy from them again, but why would you go into a pro shop pay $200+ for a bowling ball when you can go to one of the e-tailers  get the same ball drilled for under $150.




MAYBE IF YOU KNEW WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT BOY, YOU WOULDN'T LOOK SO STUPID..................

A highend ball may sell for $135-$145 online... So when you say you can get it for UNDER $150 drilled, YOUR TALKING STUPID TALK BOY....

HOW MUCH CAN YOU BUY A PURE SWING OR A JIG CORNER FOR ONLINE DRILLED BOY...........UNder $150 drilled... MY BUTT you loud mouth phony....


You have no clue, your just another two bit keyboard pounder that likes to come on and pretend your a bowler...

Real bowlers, you know, ones who bowl for money... Know where to have their balls drilled...

your a joke

now

are we clear
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jls


LMAO I love internet tuff guys...ok now let me break it down you I'll use big words so you'll be able to understand...I bought a Virtual Energy just a month ago form buddiesproshop.com for 129 plus 18 to drill the thing and yes that's with finger grips so let me see let's do the math together lol ok I'll do it for you that would be 147 and yes that's under 150 and guess what they will even ship the ball right to my house...O and for someone who pretends to be a bowler your more than welcome to come to Delaware and I'll take all your welfare check...get a life before you call someone out on the internet LOSER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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AdrianS

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #42 on: January 14, 2010, 08:00:10 PM »
quote:
I don't understand why we are blaming the consumer so much, and bad mouthing them and pinning the problem on them.   The consumer has just been given another avenue to shop at, and is it their fault for taking the cheaper price?  Really is it the customers fault?

The industry does not want to iron this out, they want to blame the consumer.    The pro shops have started to realize that the e-tailers are not going away, so they focus their time and efforts to blame the consumer now.



'They' were doing that in 1997-98 funnily enough, still a few of the old hardcore out there i guess that dont do both off and online sales.
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Time for some REAL bowling!!!
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Time for some REAL bowling!!!

Fishbowl815

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #43 on: January 14, 2010, 08:04:13 PM »
quote:
quote:
Maybe if the pro shops got in line and started to sell there stuff for what the e-tailers are than people would buy from them again, but why would you go into a pro shop pay $200+ for a bowling ball when you can go to one of the e-tailers  get the same ball drilled for under $150.



HEY keyboard pounder...

BOWLING.COM SELLS BOTH THE PURE SWING AND THE JIG CORNER FOR

$143.99  undrilled....

You are a clueless idiot....

You talk the talk, but can you back it up....

Ya, you can maybe buy a closeout  online drilled for under $150..

But try buying a ball THAT SELLS....

Or a new release....

Your a fool with a big mouth....And you don't know jack crap about retail...

More then likely the next pot you win, will be your first...
Stop trying to pretend your a bowler...

And get back to me BOY, when you cam buy a Pure Swing or a Jig Corner, or a Mutant, or a Bounty etc etc for under $150 drilled...

Now keyboard pounder,  watch out for your job...

Cause big corps are canning deadbeats who surf the net all day while at work..

You will be replaced by some little girl in China who types faster then you, and smells a whole lot better....


Thats your future

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jls



Well maybe you need to do more of an internet search fool before you talk like an idiot...haha I love people like you, you call me out but you can't even use effin google...
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kidlost2000

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #44 on: January 14, 2010, 08:41:06 PM »
It doesn't matter if the proshop puts ball X out at say $145, because you will get dumbarse A,B,and C that say yeah I want that ball and then when you say ok your total is $230 with tax out the door they will still give you the same reaction of aaaaaahhhh no thanks.

Thats why I think the internet hasn't had a big enough effect on sales for people to list their equipment that way. Even if the bowler sees $225 and goes else where online, there is still a great chance he will be back to pay his local proshop a nice chunk of change to get the ball drilled.

Now, if he gets it drilled online and doesn't like it or needs work done he still has to pay to go to the local proshop and get the ball plugged or whatever.


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" men lie, women lie, numbers don't "
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kidlost2000

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Re: Manufacturers lack of minimum sales prices
« Reply #45 on: January 14, 2010, 08:43:45 PM »
Even at regulated prices if everybody pays $160 for all new Jigsaw Corners proshops will still get their cut on in shop sales because of drilling services and accessories or from the people who buy it online who bring it in for drilling.


The only new problem is that the price will be set higher and EVERYBODY will pay more. So $150-$160 for a top of the line ball across the board will not benefit anybody.(including manufactures when sells fall off)
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" men lie, women lie, numbers don't "
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