BallReviews
General Category => Miscellaneous => Topic started by: theoldestnewby on December 04, 2016, 02:58:27 PM
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Anyone have any experiences with using medium or low flare layouts (ex. 90x2 1/4x45)? Are they better for asyms vs symmetrical cores? If used, what type of pattern used on? If multiple patterns, how would you compare the performance when used on a lower volume pattern vs a house shot?
Thanks for your input
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I love lower flare layouts for short/shorter medium patterns. To me, it's better when I need to control the downlane motion. Also, I tend to use it on cores thst have a low flare potential. When shiny, it gives me a great look on some flatter patterns and when heads are going but still need control off the spot. When dull, I can start right with it.
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Thanks for your reply...I have been contemplating using this layout on a DV8 Grudge...I think I'll take the leap of faith!
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You do have to be careful when drilling balls that already have a low flare potential (RG Differential of .030" and less), when you put a low flare drilling on them of 1.5" or 5.5" and greater pin-PAP distance. You could be reducing the flare potential to 1" or less. That makes it more susceptible to oil irregularities, like carrydown and dry spots.
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I have used the low flare layout of 90 x 2 1/2" x 45 on a Radical Guru Supreme that works great on shorter oil patterns for me. I am a high rev player, and this layout it allows me to still keep the same rev rate but play straighter up the lane. It has helped me not have to adjust my game and it does not over react down lane when there is friction on shorter oil patterns. I keep it at 1500 surface which helps it burn up and keeps it from over hooking down lane. I think it would be better on asymmetrical cores because it will start up earlier and not have as much reaction down lane which is what you usually you want on shorter patterns. I think that it would work well on a Grudge.
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I have used the low flare layout of 90 x 2 1/2" x 45 on a Radical Guru Supreme that works great on shorter oil patterns for me. I am a high rev player, and this layout it allows me to still keep the same rev rate but play straighter up the lane. It has helped me not have to adjust my game and it does not over react down lane when there is friction on shorter oil patterns. I keep it at 1500 surface which helps it burn up and keeps it from over hooking down lane. I think it would be better on asymmetrical cores because it will start up earlier and not have as much reaction down lane which is what you usually you want on shorter patterns. I think that it would work well on a Grudge.
LSR did a low flare layout 90#x2.25"x45* on a Grudge Pearl.
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Just re-opening this topic to see if there is any more advice out therefor using a low flare layout on a strong asymmetric.
Is there really a better carry for this combination over a ball that is designed as lower flare already?
Example: Radical Intel at .035 differential symm vs Radical Slash at.050 differential with a low flare layout asymm. Trying to play a straighter line.
Is there a dual angle layout guideline for low flare layout angles based on your release stats?
Thanks!
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I’d like some help with this too. I don’t know a whole lot about low flare layouts. I see people like them for shorter layouts, but what about the burn?
My weakest ball is a hyroad pin up. But our lanes today were fried and i had to gun it to stay right of the head pin and my elbow isn’t a fan.
My initial reaction was to assume I needed a weaker ball, but I’m actually wondering if something like another hyroad or a winner with a weak drill would be better.
The downside is that it would cost a little more but I’m wondering if that’d be more worth it to have the better core in the ball for through the pin action
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I’d like some help with this too. I don’t know a whole lot about low flare layouts. I see people like them for shorter layouts, but what about the burn?
My weakest ball is a hyroad pin up. But our lanes today were fried and i had to gun it to stay right of the head pin and my elbow isn’t a fan.
My initial reaction was to assume I needed a weaker ball, but I’m actually wondering if something like another hyroad or a winner with a weak drill would be better.
The downside is that it would cost a little more but I’m wondering if that’d be more worth it to have the better core in the ball for through the pin action
I really like the Hy-road too but I understand why you would consider something weaker. You could go pin down and longer pin to pap with another Hy-road or the pearl but I don't think you will see a significant difference when things start to dry out a lot. Staying in the Storm/Rotogrip lineup you might want to try something like the Match-up or Hustle balls. They are similar in RG as the Hy-road but with a weaker cover and a bit less diff. There are other companies too. I'm not on staff with anyone so I won't try to push to any particular company. On the other hand I like the Hy-road enough to do exactly as you mentioned and try a weaker drilling.
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Ok, first off, (going all Rico on you guys lol), any pin placement that isn't 3-3/8 inches from your pap is going to reduce flare.
The rest of my rant, until I say, applies to symmetrical bowling balls only.
The top of the core (pin) wants to migrate towards your pap. The easiest way I've ever found to explain this is like this.
Take an egg, and place it on a table. If you roll it, the smaller part of the egg is going to roll on the axis with very little tilt. Now, take the egg, and tilt the small part up 30 degrees, and roll it again. It wobbles a little bit before it rolls on it's axis. Now 45 degrees, then 60, then 75. As you roll the egg, you will see subtle differences in how it gets to the point of it rolling on it's axis.
The ball with a 2 inch pin vs a 5 inch pin are going to see the lane different. 2 inch will lay down and be smoother, 5 inch pin will be more angular, all other factors being the same.
With assyms, the further the pin is from the pap, the more hook set it can be, and it will go longer and be more rounded the shorter the PIN to pap is.
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I’d like some help with this too. I don’t know a whole lot about low flare layouts. I see people like them for shorter layouts, but what about the burn?
My weakest ball is a hyroad pin up. But our lanes today were fried and i had to gun it to stay right of the head pin and my elbow isn’t a fan.
My initial reaction was to assume I needed a weaker ball, but I’m actually wondering if something like another hyroad or a winner with a weak drill would be better.
The downside is that it would cost a little more but I’m wondering if that’d be more worth it to have the better core in the ball for through the pin action
I really like the Hy-road too but I understand why you would consider something weaker. You could go pin down and longer pin to pap with another Hy-road or the pearl but I don't think you will see a significant difference when things start to dry out a lot. Staying in the Storm/Rotogrip lineup you might want to try something like the Match-up or Hustle balls. They are similar in RG as the Hy-road but with a weaker cover and a bit less diff. There are other companies too. I'm not on staff with anyone so I won't try to push to any particular company. On the other hand I like the Hy-road enough to do exactly as you mentioned and try a weaker drilling.
I guess what im more concerned about is the negatives. Basically, I don’t want to waste money.
My fear is that if I go with the tropical storm, I get a ball that can get to the pocket for the burn condition but I sacrifice hit power and I leave corner pins all night.
Or if I go with like a winner, hustle, match up or another hyroad with a weak layout and it doesn’t distinguish itself enough to be worth it.
I get every ball purchase is a risk, just trying to ask as many questions as possible for risk assessment.
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I’d like some help with this too. I don’t know a whole lot about low flare layouts. I see people like them for shorter layouts, but what about the burn?
My weakest ball is a hyroad pin up. But our lanes today were fried and i had to gun it to stay right of the head pin and my elbow isn’t a fan.
My initial reaction was to assume I needed a weaker ball, but I’m actually wondering if something like another hyroad or a winner with a weak drill would be better.
The downside is that it would cost a little more but I’m wondering if that’d be more worth it to have the better core in the ball for through the pin action
I really like the Hy-road too but I understand why you would consider something weaker. You could go pin down and longer pin to pap with another Hy-road or the pearl but I don't think you will see a significant difference when things start to dry out a lot. Staying in the Storm/Rotogrip lineup you might want to try something like the Match-up or Hustle balls. They are similar in RG as the Hy-road but with a weaker cover and a bit less diff. There are other companies too. I'm not on staff with anyone so I won't try to push to any particular company. On the other hand I like the Hy-road enough to do exactly as you mentioned and try a weaker drilling.
I guess what im more concerned about is the negatives. Basically, I don’t want to waste money.
My fear is that if I go with the tropical storm, I get a ball that can get to the pocket for the burn condition but I sacrifice hit power and I leave corner pins all night.
Or if I go with like a winner, hustle, match up or another hyroad with a weak layout and it doesn’t distinguish itself enough to be worth it.
I get every ball purchase is a risk, just trying to ask as many questions as possible for risk assessment.
Only you know how much you need to ball down. I agree that the tropical might be to much of a drop but a new Hy-road may not be enough. Rev rate and rotation will play a role. Ask your PSO. They should help.
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I’d like some help with this too. I don’t know a whole lot about low flare layouts. I see people like them for shorter layouts, but what about the burn?
My weakest ball is a hyroad pin up. But our lanes today were fried and i had to gun it to stay right of the head pin and my elbow isn’t a fan.
My initial reaction was to assume I needed a weaker ball, but I’m actually wondering if something like another hyroad or a winner with a weak drill would be better.
The downside is that it would cost a little more but I’m wondering if that’d be more worth it to have the better core in the ball for through the pin action
I really like the Hy-road too but I understand why you would consider something weaker. You could go pin down and longer pin to pap with another Hy-road or the pearl but I don't think you will see a significant difference when things start to dry out a lot. Staying in the Storm/Rotogrip lineup you might want to try something like the Match-up or Hustle balls. They are similar in RG as the Hy-road but with a weaker cover and a bit less diff. There are other companies too. I'm not on staff with anyone so I won't try to push to any particular company. On the other hand I like the Hy-road enough to do exactly as you mentioned and try a weaker drilling.
I guess what im more concerned about is the negatives. Basically, I don’t want to waste money.
My fear is that if I go with the tropical storm, I get a ball that can get to the pocket for the burn condition but I sacrifice hit power and I leave corner pins all night.
Or if I go with like a winner, hustle, match up or another hyroad with a weak layout and it doesn’t distinguish itself enough to be worth it.
I get every ball purchase is a risk, just trying to ask as many questions as possible for risk assessment.
After dark solid should be the ball
Should slot in between a tropical and a hustle ink.
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I’d like some help with this too. I don’t know a whole lot about low flare layouts. I see people like them for shorter layouts, but what about the burn?
My weakest ball is a hyroad pin up. But our lanes today were fried and i had to gun it to stay right of the head pin and my elbow isn’t a fan.
My initial reaction was to assume I needed a weaker ball, but I’m actually wondering if something like another hyroad or a winner with a weak drill would be better.
The downside is that it would cost a little more but I’m wondering if that’d be more worth it to have the better core in the ball for through the pin action
I really like the Hy-road too but I understand why you would consider something weaker. You could go pin down and longer pin to pap with another Hy-road or the pearl but I don't think you will see a significant difference when things start to dry out a lot. Staying in the Storm/Rotogrip lineup you might want to try something like the Match-up or Hustle balls. They are similar in RG as the Hy-road but with a weaker cover and a bit less diff. There are other companies too. I'm not on staff with anyone so I won't try to push to any particular company. On the other hand I like the Hy-road enough to do exactly as you mentioned and try a weaker drilling.
I guess what im more concerned about is the negatives. Basically, I don’t want to waste money.
My fear is that if I go with the tropical storm, I get a ball that can get to the pocket for the burn condition but I sacrifice hit power and I leave corner pins all night.
Or if I go with like a winner, hustle, match up or another hyroad with a weak layout and it doesn’t distinguish itself enough to be worth it.
I get every ball purchase is a risk, just trying to ask as many questions as possible for risk assessment.
Only you know how much you need to ball down. I agree that the tropical might be to much of a drop but a new Hy-road may not be enough. Rev rate and rotation will play a role. Ask your PSO. They should help.
I guess my question has more to do with how much a layout can generally effect the ball. I have no doubt that if I got a tropical storm and put my normal pin up layout where the pin is up and between the fingers that I would easily get to the pocket. Where as if I got something slightly under a hyroad with my normal layout I’d be going through the nose.
I guess my more precise question is, say a match up or the hustle hybrid with my normal layout is through the nose, would a weaker layout keep it on the right side?
I really don’t know much about how much a layouts in general. I know that they can effect the shape of the shot but can they effect board coverage a lot? I saw a lane side reviews video where they compared a normal layout to a “low-flare†layout and it didn’t appear like they lost much of any board coverage.
At the end of the day, dream scenario would be to have a better ball with a weak layout and see a noticeable different to where I can transition from one to the other or just start with the weaker when it happens to be a burnt out lane condition. I’d rather have that than a weak ball like the tropical storm where I have to worry about continuation though the pins and leaving weird stuff all night.
But if there wouldn’t be a disceranable difference, then I’m out more money on two bowling balls that are pretty close in reaction and I can’t keep either right of the head
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I’d like some help with this too. I don’t know a whole lot about low flare layouts. I see people like them for shorter layouts, but what about the burn?
My weakest ball is a hyroad pin up. But our lanes today were fried and i had to gun it to stay right of the head pin and my elbow isn’t a fan.
My initial reaction was to assume I needed a weaker ball, but I’m actually wondering if something like another hyroad or a winner with a weak drill would be better.
The downside is that it would cost a little more but I’m wondering if that’d be more worth it to have the better core in the ball for through the pin action
I really like the Hy-road too but I understand why you would consider something weaker. You could go pin down and longer pin to pap with another Hy-road or the pearl but I don't think you will see a significant difference when things start to dry out a lot. Staying in the Storm/Rotogrip lineup you might want to try something like the Match-up or Hustle balls. They are similar in RG as the Hy-road but with a weaker cover and a bit less diff. There are other companies too. I'm not on staff with anyone so I won't try to push to any particular company. On the other hand I like the Hy-road enough to do exactly as you mentioned and try a weaker drilling.
I guess what im more concerned about is the negatives. Basically, I don’t want to waste money.
My fear is that if I go with the tropical storm, I get a ball that can get to the pocket for the burn condition but I sacrifice hit power and I leave corner pins all night.
Or if I go with like a winner, hustle, match up or another hyroad with a weak layout and it doesn’t distinguish itself enough to be worth it.
I get every ball purchase is a risk, just trying to ask as many questions as possible for risk assessment.
If worried about wasting money go with the Hustle Ink. Super versatile, predictable and entry level pricing (best ball under $100 undrilled imo) and one of the best drop down balls at least recently. Trust me you will see a difference between it and the Hy-Road (own both). Amount layout affects ball motion is over rated imo unless you go to the extremes which is never a good idea (got burned recently going pin under thumb) and is seldom more than 15% of total ball reaction. You can accent or dull a ball's natural motion a little but not change it totally. Far too easy to worry about layouts when surface and how you throw the ball is much more important. Think of layouts as more of a carry tweak.
(edit: have yet to see anyone dislike the Hustle Ink on here and seen plenty of even non staffers rave about it. I like mine but with my style and lanes I bowl on rare I see enough friction I ever have to drop down from my Hy-Road).
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I’d like some help with this too. I don’t know a whole lot about low flare layouts. I see people like them for shorter layouts, but what about the burn?
My weakest ball is a hyroad pin up. But our lanes today were fried and i had to gun it to stay right of the head pin and my elbow isn’t a fan.
My initial reaction was to assume I needed a weaker ball, but I’m actually wondering if something like another hyroad or a winner with a weak drill would be better.
The downside is that it would cost a little more but I’m wondering if that’d be more worth it to have the better core in the ball for through the pin action
I really like the Hy-road too but I understand why you would consider something weaker. You could go pin down and longer pin to pap with another Hy-road or the pearl but I don't think you will see a significant difference when things start to dry out a lot. Staying in the Storm/Rotogrip lineup you might want to try something like the Match-up or Hustle balls. They are similar in RG as the Hy-road but with a weaker cover and a bit less diff. There are other companies too. I'm not on staff with anyone so I won't try to push to any particular company. On the other hand I like the Hy-road enough to do exactly as you mentioned and try a weaker drilling.
I guess what im more concerned about is the negatives. Basically, I don’t want to waste money.
My fear is that if I go with the tropical storm, I get a ball that can get to the pocket for the burn condition but I sacrifice hit power and I leave corner pins all night.
Or if I go with like a winner, hustle, match up or another hyroad with a weak layout and it doesn’t distinguish itself enough to be worth it.
I get every ball purchase is a risk, just trying to ask as many questions as possible for risk assessment.
If worried about wasting money go with the Hustle Ink. Super versatile, predictable and entry level pricing (best ball under $100 undrilled imo) and one of the best drop down balls at least recently. Trust me you will see a difference between it and the Hy-Road (own both). Amount layout affects ball motion is over rated imo unless you go to the extremes which is never a good idea (got burned recently going pin under thumb) and is seldom more than 15% of total ball reaction. You can accent or dull a ball's natural motion a little but not change it totally. Far too easy to worry about layouts when surface and how you throw the ball is much more important. Think of layouts as more of a carry tweak.
(edit: have yet to see anyone dislike the Hustle Ink on here and seen plenty of even non staffers rave about it. I like mine but with my style and lanes I bowl on rare I see enough friction I ever have to drop down from my Hy-Road).
Throughout the day, I’ve actually been leaning towards the HYB. I love the hybrid reaction down lane. I was thinking about a weak but not extremely weak layout with some polish on the ball. Was actually thinking about matching the 1500 polished the hyroad live is to match it.
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Your call but from what I understand the HYB is significantly stronger and might not be much of a step down ball. Didn't seem to generate near the love but some on here swear by it. BJI says the INK is two foot longer, three to four boards weaker with more hold area and stronger backend motion than HYB. HYB can handle more oil but isn't as good on the dry. Don't care either way (not a staffer, just a house hack with way too many bowling balls) but Hustle Ink is one of the best balls Roto has ever made on the lower end. Check out what Luke Rosdahl had to say about both on youtube. Guy really knows his stuff (regular on here and super nice) staffer or not and if you read between the lines HYB didn't impress him that much other than being strong and smooth (and early which may not want) at that price point but that is what your Hy-Road is for (strong more than smooth part). Still in the end probably either ball is fine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFikkwXzzGk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNXkUjS3Ih4